Govt decisions likely to delay ASADA (Herald Sun)

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I would love to see this sorted out soon. By the time they serve players (if they do), most will be retired anyway.
 
wowlace said:
I would love to see this sorted out soon. By the time they serve players (if they do), most will be retired anyway.
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Nah, the old dogs like McVeigh only got Vitamin C.

The young bucks who were to form the backbone of Hirdy's PED assisted team were given the Good Stuff.

Time is not a problem.

Jobe is the eldest.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
There's no doubt Essendon did keep records, and burnt/shredded/deleted them once this all came out. That's what I'm saying though, not to go blaming ASADA when Essendon are the ones that have made this extremely difficult and time consuming.
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Are you serious when you write that Essendon burnt/shredded/deleted records. I don't know how you can say this with ABSOLUTE certainty. Though it's strange that the player consent forms have been made freely available in the press. This would be part of the Essendon records.
 
jenny61_99 said:
Dank signed a stat dec to say he had nothing to give ASADA. Essendon says they don't have anything either. Someone is lying.
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Unless I am mistaken this request for Dank to produce documents came from his time at Cronulla.
 
yaco55 said:
Are you serious when you write that Essendon burnt/shredded/deleted records. I don't know how you can say this with ABSOLUTE certainty. Though it's strange that the player consent forms have been made freely available in the press. This would be part of the Essendon records.
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It's neither certain that Essendon shredded records or that they never had proper ones in the first place.

It's guesswork to try and talk in absolutes on that, in either direction mind you.
 
Doss said:
It's neither certain that Essendon shredded records or that they never had proper ones in the first place.
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So true Doss, although I would bet my uncertain plums that this situation got a cracker up all the questionable clubs butts and we can only guess who was invited to all of their 11 or 12 bonfires. Did other Clubs keep a meticulous record of etc.etc.

wowlace said:
I would love to see this sorted out soon. By the time they serve players (if they do), most will be retired anyway.
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Dustin won't
 

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jenny61_99 said:
You have a link to this startling revelation?
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Mr Dank is working on so many fronts it is hard to keep them all straight.

One of his lawyers claimed Dank gave a stat dec to ASADA saying he had no documents to provide.

He was also required to produce documents in the players suing Cronulla trial, and claimed not to have any. He was supposed to be called before the judge to explain himself in that one. Not sure what happened there.
 
Spongebob said:
Mr Dank is working on so many fronts it is hard to keep them all straight.

One of his lawyers claimed Dank gave a stat dec to ASADA saying he had no documents to provide.

He was also required to produce documents in the players suing Cronulla trial, and claimed not to have any. He was supposed to be called before the judge to explain himself in that one. Not sure what happened there.
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Ah so it wasn't me being confused at all. :thumbsu:
 
yaco55 said:
Are you serious when you write that Essendon burnt/shredded/deleted records. I don't know how you can say this with ABSOLUTE certainty. Though it's strange that the player consent forms have been made freely available in the press. This would be part of the Essendon records.
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There are three possibilities:

1) They kept records and destroyed them
2) They kept records and are still hiding them
3) They didn't keep records and Dank administered the entire program from memory, remembering exactly what he gave to each of the ~40 players and on what day
 
Doss said:
It's neither certain that Essendon shredded records or that they never had proper ones in the first place.

It's guesswork to try and talk in absolutes on that, in either direction mind you.
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Of course nobody can say anything for certain regarding record keeping at the club - we aren't there and have to read about it in the news.

BUT, logically you can only come to the conclusion that there MUST have been a detailed process of recording who was taking what. How could anyone possibly go through the processes EFC did and plan to give so many injections and treatments without accurately planning who was going to take what drug and in what dosage? It's even been mentioned a number of times that it was planned that the program would be some sort of clinical trial (whether that is true or actually took place in the end is questionable of course), so you would think they must have had every intention of recording treatments to the standard required of that.

If you believe (as Dank claims) there were no records, the scenario would be akin to filling dozens of syringes and throwing them at the group of players while wearing a blindfold, like a game of drunken darts. It goes against the whole aim of a drug program; to improve performance. Can't improve performance without meticulous planning, measuring and recording of treatments and their results.
 
Doss said:
It's neither certain that Essendon shredded records or that they never had proper ones in the first place.

It's guesswork to try and talk in absolutes on that, in either direction mind you.
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It's amusing to see so many people speaking with such certainty on the topic, when the reality is it's doubtful that any of us know what has exactly happened, despite a lot of posturing from both sides of the argument.
 
Yeah, I'd say it's very likely there were records somewhere, held by someone. It's just who that someone is, really. Dank alone? Dank and Robinson? Hird? Who knows.
 
Doss said:
Yeah, I'd say it's very likely there were records somewhere, held by someone. It's just who that someone is, really. Essendon Football Club alone? Essendon Football Club ? Essendon Football Club ? Who knows.
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Edited for accuracy.

An ethical football club would make sure it had the records of the drugs it paid for, and were put into it's players.

All AFL football clubs, regardless of ethics, are also required to do this under the AFL Anti-Doping Code.

7.4 Before the commencement of the AFL Competition in each year each Player must
advise his Club Medical Officer in writing of all substances and medications he is
taking or using or has taken or used since the last Match in which the Player
participated in the previous year. The Player must promptly advise his Club Medical
Officer in writing of all substances and medications he subsequently takes or uses
during the AFL Competition in that year. Each Club Medical Officer must maintain
and keep a written record in respect of each Player of all substances and
medications so advised to him. Such records will be the property of the Club.

Sanction for breach: minimum 10 Penalty Units
(refer clauses 14.9, 14.10 & 14.11)
 
Your tried and trusted "ethics" rant is utterly meaningless in the context of my post, Ian, and the other posts too.

But carry on.
 
Doss said:
Your tried and trusted "ethics" rant is utterly meaningless in the context of my post, Ian, and the other posts too.

But carry on.
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Doss,

At it's heart, this is about ethics.

Essendon Football Club, by giving a cocktail of partially untested and off-label drugs, put the health and safety of young men who trusted them at risk, without fully informing them of those risks (I could cite Cha et al, and Witterts comments on AOD and so on, and but if you havent been bothered to care about the health of Essendon players by now, then doing that wont help) .

Yes, it's more comforting to lie about this, to delude yourself into thinking this was rogue operators.

But it wasnt. There were meetings, there were forms, there was discussion. This was planned, organised and implemented by the Club.

And the Essendon Football Club still cannot tell us what the Mexican Drug was, or show us invoices for Thymodulin, or explain how they knew why what they did was safe.

And what enables it is people like you, who call a simple truth - that an ethical club *would* have records of what it gave to players - a rant, to belittle it and make it seem like it's based on malice.

Now, if an ethical club would have records about what players were given what drugs, and the Essendon Football Club does not have complete and accurate records on what players were given what drugs, what does that make the Essendon Football Club ?
 
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