No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Ben the Gooner]

Ben, please.

A lot of people in that thread were questioning the need for the thread in the first place- "Hird is coming back, so the discussion is irrelevant and not needed".

Now suddenly we're quashing reasonable discussion? Can't have it both ways.

It's been demonstrated time and time again that people cannot handle a dedicated thread maturely, it degenerates into crap every single time. Enough is enough.

Whether there should be a debate and whether there is a debate are completely separate things.

There shouldn't be a debate. Hird is coming back and aside from a couple of posters' delusional fantasies, both Hird and Bomber support this.

There is a debate for whatever reason, and quite frankly it's not your job to say it can't be discussed.

 

[Doss]

And quite frankly it's not your job to tell the mods how to run the board. The incessant whinging is becoming very annoying.

Hird v Thompson can be discussed here if people so desire. No issue with that.

A dedicated thread just gets railroaded, and this has been demonstrated time and time again. People were given the chance and they couldn't handle it maturely. That's our call to make as the moderators of the board, and as an ex-mod, you're very much aware of that.

My/our door is always open if you want to chew the fat about this- but privately. Please.

 

[Jade]

There is no logic in that statement.
Why can't he?
I have given my reasoning why he should not be held responsible for any suspensions. But you don't give any as to why he should.

If a single player is successfully infracted, the entire football department and support staff are gone.

That would include Hird, Thompson, Goodwin for a start.

The why is very simple. The football department asked for, and received a cutting edge supplements program. If it administered a substance that is banned - it (the football department) ultimately wears responsibility.

 

[bomberman500]

Not sure it's the comparison I'd make, from all accounts The Hurricane was guilty.....

The Hurricane was convicted by an interim report i'm led to believe

 

[Jade]

Doubt that everyone in the Footy Department will be gone - You can't get rid of 15 or 20 people in one foul swoop.

Well maybe not on Monday.

The club can certainly very quickly remove and replace a fair few people in a short period of time.

 

[Doss]

Well maybe not on Monday.

The club can certainly very quickly remove and replace a fair few people in a short period of time.

I suspect that some of the people at the lower end of the football department- in terms of responsibility- would probably escape the axe just through having little directly to do with it all.

My 'entire' call last night was probably an exaggeration. All the major players, though- gone. The possibility of a football department consisting of any of Hird, Thompson, Goodwin and Reid post-player suspensions is pretty much a moot discussion- it won't happen.

 

[Jade]

It's allowed, but Doss may card you without any warning or notice just because he feels like it.

I hear Doss moonlights as a dentist as well.



Seriously, when has a mod EVER carded you for nothing?

I've copped a card or two - I've always deserved it.

 

[DonsRule]

I hear Doss moonlights as a dentist as well.



Seriously, when has a mod EVER carded you for nothing?

I've copped a card or two - I've always deserved it.

More tongue in cheek for Doss.

 

[bomberman500]

So, did purple really say on the radio today that he is on the anti Essendon bandwagon?

Pock faced campaigner

In other 'breaking' news the sky is blue

 

[bomberman500]

Joy of joys! Caro on Offsiders again. It is impossible to have her on the show now without her bagging Hird. So tiring. The ABC are normally better than this.
Again I suggest you complain to their feedback site:
http://www.abc.net.au/sport/offsiders/contact.htm

You're kidding right?? they're as bad as Newscorp and Fairfax with their agenda driven dribble

 

[bomberman500]

Does that mean anything? I see that more as appeasing the masses. Show cause notices mean s**t all unless they evolve into infraction notices.

If that happens, I'll change my tune, but based on what I've seen, the SCs are purely desperation from ASADA in the hope that they are seen to be doing something

Exactly!!
It's pretty much a carbon copy of the police threating to charge you with murder in the first saying "we have all this evidence", in the hope you will roll over and say you were only the getaway driver and point the finger at the guy who pulled the trigger.

 

[bomberman500]

At the same time, why would ASADA make this big song and dance about this if they were just going to get slapped down easily?

I mean come on, they have had many international experts review the briefs and the embarrassment and condemnation they would get if their evidence was virtually non-existent would far outweigh ASADA saying there's nothing to pursue. Hell, they didn't even pursue AOD which debunks the whole 'they're putting on a show' rhetoric.

In the absence of evidence what do authorities usually do to get a conviction, threats and inuendo in the hopes of getting a confession. They have come to far to simply admit they have nothing.
In poker terms they have gone all in with a 2/7

 

[westking]

That awkward moment when there isn't a daily Caro anti-Essendon article in The Age....

Very rare day indeed!

There was also some balanced commentary from Rohan Connolly over the weekend too. I particularly enjoyed his comments in regards to "news" reporting and "opinion" writing and how certain writers are experts at blending the two into one, further blurring the truth. Enjoy it while it lasts I suppose.
The next round of anti Hird campaigning will be in the lead up to Aug 11.

Things have gone very quiet havnt they? No more leaks combined with my decision to not read any articles from the usual 4 or 5 campaigners and the football has become a little more enjoyable. First time in a long while.

 

[Jade]

At the same time, why would ASADA make this big song and dance about this if they were just going to get slapped down easily?

I mean come on, they have had many international experts review the briefs and the embarrassment and condemnation they would get if their evidence was virtually non-existent would far outweigh ASADA saying there's nothing to pursue. Hell, they didn't even pursue AOD which debunks the whole 'they're putting on a show' rhetoric.

Just my opinion of course, but it is fairly obvious they are pissing into the wind.

The media driven outrage that whipped the public into a frenzy - the thousands upon thousands of injections, systematic doping and evil, underhanded cheating has distilled down to this:

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club that (maybe) were administered.

26 doses? 26 doses?? Wait, I thought there was an entire systematic doping program!

There was no doping at Essendon. Anyone that tells you different is a ****ing moron. I'm not a doctor, chemist or nutritionist. But I do know that 26 doses of Thymosin Beta 4 across a list of 40-odd players offers absolutely no benefit. No 'performance enhancement'.

Having said that, I recognise that regardless of whether there was performance enhancement, if somehow TB4 made its way into a syringe and into a player, that still constitutes a breach of the rules. So where does ASADA go?

34 doesn't go into 26. That alone tells you ASADA knows that 34 SC notices =/= 34 infractions.

I cannot speak for the motivations of ASADA, however common sense tells me they have one of two motivations:

1) The show cause notices are exactly that. They are well aware that they will not get 34 infractions and are simply asking those respondents that possibly could have received Thymosin Beta 4 to make a submission. They are well aware that the players did not break the 'spirit' of the law (ie they weren't loaded up on the gear), and need to justify the expense of the investigation by correctly closing the loop.

2) ASADA does not care about the 'right' thing to do. It has issued 34 SC notices with the intent of seeking 34 infractions - despite knowing that 34 players could not all have received the substance they believe made it to the club. If this is the case, ASADA is a broken entity that needs to be disbanded and replaced. It is not performing its core duty of enforcing the NAD and is instead only concerned with point scoring.

 

[rumply]

Just my opinion of course, but it is fairly obvious they are pissing into the wind.

The media driven outrage that whipped the public into a frenzy - the thousands upon thousands of injections, systematic doping and evil, underhanded cheating has distilled down to this:

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club that (maybe) were administered.

26 doses? 26 doses?? Wait, I thought there was an entire systematic doping program!

There was no doping at Essendon. Anyone that tells you different is a ****ing moron. I'm not a doctor, chemist or nutritionist. But I do know that 26 doses of Thymosin Beta 4 across a list of 40-odd players offers absolutely no benefit. No 'performance enhancement'.

Having said that, I recognise that regardless of whether there was performance enhancement, if somehow TB4 made its way into a syringe and into a player, that still constitutes a breach of the rules. So where does ASADA go?

34 doesn't go into 26. That alone tells you ASADA knows that 34 SC notices =/= 34 infractions.

I cannot speak for the motivations of ASADA, however common sense tells me they have one of two motivations:

1) The show cause notices are exactly that. They are well aware that they will not get 34 infractions and are simply asking those respondents that possibly could have received Thymosin Beta 4 to make a submission. They are well aware that the players did not break the 'spirit' of the law (ie they weren't loaded up on the gear), and need to justify the expense of the investigation by correctly closing the loop.

2) ASADA does not care about the 'right' thing to do. It has issued 34 SC notices with the intent of seeking 34 infractions - despite knowing that 34 players could not all have received the substance they believe made it to the club. If this is the case, ASADA is a broken entity that needs to be disbanded and replaced. It is not performing its core duty of enforcing the NAD and is instead only concerned with point scoring.

Yep, & of course there is the issue of the club having never paid for whatever was in those 26 vials & in fact I heard on the grape vine that the chemist who is said to have cooked up those vials cancelled the invoice he originally billed to the club. Funny how that little issue has been ignored by almost everyone who has publicly commented on this...

I guess ASADA are just are happy to assume that the chemist is such a nice guy that he works for free...I mean he couldn't have been sending out invoices for goods never supplied, could he?...wait, what??

 

[westking]

Dont forget who we are dealing with here.

Agreed. ASADA are known in legal circles for being incredibly ruthless with the scalps they get. They don't get a high number of cases, so when they do, they do whatever they can to ensure funding for future budgets.

Look at Ahmed Saad's case as a recent example. He endorsed and consumed an energy drink which featured an ingredient that though legal during the week, is prohibited on match day. While Saad is obviously at fault for checking if the drink was okay with club doctors, the fact that he was endorsing the drink demonstrates that he was not consuming the drink to cheat.
Yes, Saad should have been suspended, but 18 months (which the tribunal only gave because they were afraid any lower suspension would prompt an ASADA [or WADA] appeal) is ridiculous for such a small offence.

They did a similar thing with that VFL player a few years back, who's original suspension of 9 months was then made into 24 months.

What I'm saying is, they're ******* arseholes.

Who's idea was it to invite them in. And where is he/them?

 

[60sbomber]

If INs actually are delivered and players suspended, the entire football department from 2012 is gone.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

If players are suspended, it is because of Dank and Robinson, and because they were not supervised closely enough.

The idea that you just sack anyone and everyone who had some association with their activities or who was there at the time is just dumb.

If you have a good coach, good assistants, a good football manager etc, you are just shooting yourself in the foot if you sack them all for the sake of making a clean sweep.


And furthermore, I would find it very hard to support a club that sacked Hird after the loyalty he has shown throughout this.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

I hear Doss moonlights as a dentist as well.


Seriously, when has a mod EVER carded you for nothing?

I've copped a card or two - I've always deserved it.

 

[DonsRule]

Just my opinion of course, but it is fairly obvious they are pissing into the wind.

The media driven outrage that whipped the public into a frenzy - the thousands upon thousands of injections, systematic doping and evil, underhanded cheating has distilled down to this:

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club that (maybe) were administered.

26 doses? 26 doses?? Wait, I thought there was an entire systematic doping program!

There was no doping at Essendon. Anyone that tells you different is a ****ing moron. I'm not a doctor, chemist or nutritionist. But I do know that 26 doses of Thymosin Beta 4 across a list of 40-odd players offers absolutely no benefit. No 'performance enhancement'.

Having said that, I recognise that regardless of whether there was performance enhancement, if somehow TB4 made its way into a syringe and into a player, that still constitutes a breach of the rules. So where does ASADA go?

34 doesn't go into 26. That alone tells you ASADA knows that 34 SC notices =/= 34 infractions.

I cannot speak for the motivations of ASADA, however common sense tells me they have one of two motivations:

1) The show cause notices are exactly that. They are well aware that they will not get 34 infractions and are simply asking those respondents that possibly could have received Thymosin Beta 4 to make a submission. They are well aware that the players did not break the 'spirit' of the law (ie they weren't loaded up on the gear), and need to justify the expense of the investigation by correctly closing the loop.

2) ASADA does not care about the 'right' thing to do. It has issued 34 SC notices with the intent of seeking 34 infractions - despite knowing that 34 players could not all have received the substance they believe made it to the club. If this is the case, ASADA is a broken entity that needs to be disbanded and replaced. It is not performing its core duty of enforcing the NAD and is instead only concerned with point scoring.

Saladin has made it more clear on BB too.


The program was 1 injection per player per week (iirc) for the first 3 months 34x12=408 vials needed to run the program as directed. That may only have been one shipment of it, but you'd imagine after 6 months of investigating they would have found far more than what they did to run the program.

 

[scottmclaren]

The other option is ASADA pursue intent, that way the 26 vials doesn't have to equal 34 players and presence is not required.

But the intent angle seems even more difficult to pursue.

 

[Jade]

The other option is ASADA pursue intent, that way the 26 vials doesn't have to equal 34 players and presence is not required.

But the intent angle seems even more difficult to pursue.

I think the intent angle would be nigh on impossible.

No player intended to take TB4.

 

[Bennett.]

Hey guys,
We've come 18 months and no ******* way now are we going to turn on ourselves or each other.
Save hit scorn and disdain for the 17 other clubs that deserve it.

 

[Dave]

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club that (maybe) were administered.

26 doses? 26 doses?? Wait, I thought there was an entire systematic doping program!

Nah mate, we got more than that, it's just that no one was invoiced and it was paid for by anonymous club benefactors. It's dinkum though.

 

[2one2]

Just my opinion of course, but it is fairly obvious they are pissing into the wind.

The media driven outrage that whipped the public into a frenzy - the thousands upon thousands of injections, systematic doping and evil, underhanded cheating has distilled down to this:

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club.

26 doses of (maybe) Thymosin Beta 4 that (maybe) got to the club that (maybe) were administered.

26 doses? 26 doses?? Wait, I thought there was an entire systematic doping program!

There was no doping at Essendon. Anyone that tells you different is a ****ing moron. I'm not a doctor, chemist or nutritionist. But I do know that 26 doses of Thymosin Beta 4 across a list of 40-odd players offers absolutely no benefit. No 'performance enhancement'.

Having said that, I recognise that regardless of whether there was performance enhancement, if somehow TB4 made its way into a syringe and into a player, that still constitutes a breach of the rules. So where does ASADA go?

34 doesn't go into 26. That alone tells you ASADA knows that 34 SC notices =/= 34 infractions.

I cannot speak for the motivations of ASADA, however common sense tells me they have one of two motivations:

1) The show cause notices are exactly that. They are well aware that they will not get 34 infractions and are simply asking those respondents that possibly could have received Thymosin Beta 4 to make a submission. They are well aware that the players did not break the 'spirit' of the law (ie they weren't loaded up on the gear), and need to justify the expense of the investigation by correctly closing the loop.

2) ASADA does not care about the 'right' thing to do. It has issued 34 SC notices with the intent of seeking 34 infractions - despite knowing that 34 players could not all have received the substance they believe made it to the club. If this is the case, ASADA is a broken entity that needs to be disbanded and replaced. It is not performing its core duty of enforcing the NAD and is instead only concerned with point scoring.

Top post.

I love the dingleberries who's response to "what about AOD9604?" Is along the lines of "ASADA WOULDN'T BOTHER IF THEY CAN JUST GET THEM FOR THE BIG ONE YAKNOW - WHY CHARGE WITH RECKLESS DRIVING WHEN YOU CAN JUST GET THEN FOR MANSLAUGHTER?!?"

In other words ASADA decided not to pursue AOD, which has been clarified as 'not not banned' by WADA, was unambiguously on players consent forms, was known by players including the club captain, was ordered and delivered clearly and was administered for months, yep they decided no to pursue that because they have a flimflam circumstantial case for the whole team where they might have once been injected with 2/3 of a vial of TB4, carefully rationed out of 26 vials by Dank, who clearly loves to exercise thrift with the company CC.

Yep you have a shaky case around AOD and a knockout blow with TB4. Otay fellas.

 

[Jade]

Top post.

I love the dingleberries who's response to "what about AOD9604?" Is along the lines of "ASADA WOULDN'T BOTHER IF THEY CAN JUST GET THEM FOR THE BIG ONE YAKNOW - WHY CHARGE WITH RECKLESS DRIVING WHEN YOU CAN JUST GET THEN FOR MANSLAUGHTER?!?"

In other words ASADA decided not to pursue AOD, which has been clarified as 'not not banned' by WADA, was unambiguously on players consent forms, was known by players including the club captain, was ordered and delivered clearly and was administered for months, yep they decided no to pursue that because they have a flimflam circumstantial case for the whole team where they might have once been injected with 2/3 of a vial of TB4, carefully rationed out of 26 vials by Dank, who clearly loves to exercise thrift with the company CC.

Yep you have a shaky case around AOD and a knockout blow with TB4. Otay fellas.

You should probably ignore anyone that mentions AOD-9604 - they clearly haven't the slightest clue what they are on about.