No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[bomberman500]

I think there are areas the NFL is too weak, Ings pointedout 4 weeks for taking EPO on purpose is too light.

the NFL probably knows if it signed up to WADA they would be dishing out a good 2-3 dozen 2 year holidays every season.
But on the other hand the same ban for any drug is a bit of a stretch. A player from Baltimore got 4 games for failing to clear his medication (for ADHD I think) with the league. I was fully legal, he just hadn't lodged the paperwork in time and he was tested

 

[Harlequin]

I

It's funny but I've always thought of this as almost confirming that if anything went on, it was behind Hird's back. Like he totally believed there was nothing to see and there was nothing wrong with the program, and because of that he was happy to take full responsibility. In retrospect it wasn't a good thing to say due to the way it has all played out.

I too believe that Hird et al do not believe that anything sinister has occurred which is why he said he'd take responsibility.

And I believe that he should not have said anything.

But he did say he would take responsibility and that is the reason he has been hung, drawn and quartered by our illustrious media

 

[DonsRule]

the NFL probably knows if it signed up to WADA they would be dishing out a good 2-3 dozen 2 year holidays every season.
But on the other hand the same ban for any drug is a bit of a stretch. A player from Baltimore got 4 games for failing to clear his medication (for ADHD I think) with the league. I was fully legal, he just hadn't lodged the paperwork in time and he was tested

Yep, I can accept 4 weeks for that.

But, I think an EO breach needs something like 12 games first offence.

I think 2 years is harsh on team sports where you miss alot more compared to athletics.

 

[rumply]

I think there are areas the NFL is too weak, Ings pointedout 4 weeks for taking EPO on purpose is too light.

Probably but is a helluva lot better than whats going on elsewhere

 

[DonsRule]

I too believe that Hird et al do not believe that anything sinister has occurred which is why he said he'd take responsibility.

And I believe that he should not have said anything.

But he did say he would take responsibility and that is the reason he has been hung, drawn and quartered by our illustrious media

Tim Watson make the point there was a story behind that line too, guess it was reading off a card essentially. Later to figure out what was going on.

 

[Pweter]

Yep, I can accept 4 weeks for that.

But, I think an EO breach needs something like 12 games first offence.

I think 2 years is harsh on team sports where you miss alot more compared to athletics.

That statement by Hird and "THAT" quote from the Ziggy report seem to be what Hird and the club are respectively being hammered for (still).

 

[Mercurial89]

the NFL probably knows if it signed up to WADA they would be dishing out a good 2-3 dozen 2 year holidays every season.
But on the other hand the same ban for any drug is a bit of a stretch. A player from Baltimore got 4 games for failing to clear his medication (for ADHD I think) with the league. I was fully legal, he just hadn't lodged the paperwork in time and he was tested

Media over there is a lot different too, there isnt a lack of content to cover, so you dont get the same sensationlist journalism in regards to sport to graba headline or sell a paper. Of course it still occurs but the general feeling, at least when i was over there is very much a "who cares" type attitude when it comes to sporting scandals at least.

 

[yodellinhank]

I don't understand where people are coming from on Hird "taking responsibility" for the supplements program.

A) not the coach's responsibility
B) looks increasingly likely to have been a WADA compliant program

 

[Harlequin]

Tim Watson make the point there was a story behind that line too, guess it was reading off a card essentially. Later to figure out what was going on.

I wouldn't be surprised about there being a story behind the statement.

 

[rumply]

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err...

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I think Hird, Bomber et al. leaving in the event of suspensions is similar to a CEO resigning from a big company when an employee makes a massive mistake there. Not his/her fault per se, but he/she is the figurehead and has to go simply to show appropriate contrition on an organizational level.

 

[Doss]

I think Hird, Bomber et al. leaving in the event of suspensions is similar to a CEO resigning from a big company when an employee makes a massive mistake there. Not his/her fault per se, but he/she is the figurehead and has to go simply to show appropriate contrition on an organizational level.

Bingo. It's contrition.

It's not necessarily about being turfed for their level of responsibility for the program, it's about recognising that players being suspended is as big a disaster as possible for Essendon as a club (let alone for the poor players) and that the consequences for those in the football department need to go pretty high up.

If players are suspended, I don't think some sort of defiant symbolic "* you" to everyone in the form of keeping Hird/Thompson/et al. serves any good purpose, and would be entirely piecemeal and token in the context of the real disaster we would face.

With any luck, this is a bridge we won't have to cross.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

The NFL are a very dodgy organisation (see their suppression of concussion research recently) but this is one thing they're certainly better on. The problem is that Australia isn't a big enough country in WADA's eyes for us to get away with telling them to bugger off. America is, and thus can. WADA threatens our government with exclusion from the Olympics if national sports don't sign to the code. They can't do that wirh Amercia, because the olympics without America would be a farce.

 

[marky53]

I don't understand where people are coming from on Hird "taking responsibility" for the supplements program.

A) not the coach's responsibility
B) looks increasingly likely to have been a WADA compliant program

In the 5th Feb press conference he said that he accepts full responsibility.

Lotta people still hanging onto that comment

 

[cymarak]

WADA threatens our government with exclusion from the Olympics if national sports don't sign to the code.

Seriously?

I find it hard to believe WADA would have any credibility whatsoever if it tried to, for example, ban our swimmers from the Olympics because the AFL wasn't signed up to the WADA code.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

Seriously?

I find it hard to believe WADA would have any credibility whatsoever if it tried to, for example, ban our swimmers from the Olympics because the AFL wasn't signed up to the WADA code.

That's the threat they've used in the past. The government then forces the unrelated codes, NRL & AFL, etc, to sign up, threatening a withdrawel of federal funding.

Everyone makes threats down the chain.

EDIT: It was originally in a brendan schwab article that my phone isn't letting me link for some, typically annoying phone reason. Was from the Age. Should be easy to google.

 

[Harlequin]

In the 5th Feb press conference he said that he accepts full responsibility.

Lotta people still hanging onto that comment

I don't accept that Hird should take full responsibility.

I believe that he too has been betrayed by someone he trusted.

His stipulation was that everything had to be compliant.

He's the coach, he's not the sports medicine expert.

I look forward to him being back at our Club.

* the Haters

 

[marky53]

I don't accept that Hird should take full responsibility.

I believe that he too has been betrayed by someone he trusted.

His stipulation was that everything had to be compliant.

He's the coach, he's not the sports medicine expert.

I look forward to him being back at our Club.

**** the Haters

I'm not saying he should accept responsibility, just answering the question which was where are people getting it from.

I loved Leigh Matthews coming out saying that as coach he had no idea what was administered to players as that was the role of other Lions staff.

 

[60sbomber]

That's the thing for me, rines. How can the club have any shred of credibility if players are sitting on the sidelines while those who ultimately cooked up the idea of the program- as a collective- hang around?

To me, they can't.

I can't accept the logic here.
This seems to be saying that the players would be innocent victims. And because they suffer unfair consequences, those who were responsible for putting them in a position where they suffered those unfair consequences should be sacrificed as well, eventhough they too are innocent of any wrongdoing.

 

[vaughany]

Has anyone got a link to the Australian article/SEN audio where Patrick Smith went off the deep end in relation to Saturday's Herald Sun article by Robbo.
Apparently accused Robbo of being a puppet for Hirdy and basically Hird wrote the article. Accused Robbo of being the "ghost writer".

Patrick Smith has officially lot his marbles, time to give the media game away

 

[84859300]

I don't accept that Hird should take full responsibility.

Some others disagree. They see it not as Hird accepting 'full responsibility'...more Hird accepting some responsibility.

I believe that he too has been betrayed by someone he trusted.

There's no trust in business, unless you work with family and even then; that'd debatable. The governance issue has raised that there should have been many more checks in place by many more people for this to function correctly. The fact that we don't have facts x, y and z to slap on the table to nip the drama in the bud, is some of the main frustrations by supporters.

His stipulation was that everything had to be compliant.

You're right, there was an email that stated this. But there was also another email asking people to use their UN skills to keep Dr Reid at bay. This could be seen as ambiguous.

He's the coach, he's not the sports medicine expert.

Granted. But neither were Wallis, Hamilton and the rest. They have been put off for the poor processes in the club. People are questioning on how some go, but others stay. Falling on the sword can be honorable, but it can only hide sins of others for so long.

 

[Doss]

I can't accept the logic here.
This seems to be saying that the players would be innocent victims. And because they suffer unfair consequences, those who were responsible for putting them in a position where they suffered those unfair consequences should be sacrificed as well, eventhough they too are innocent of any wrongdoing.

Not really.

If the players are suspended, then we'd need to accept that it's probably quite likely (yes, I know the whole ASADA burden of proof thing is rather problematic) that the players were given a prohibited substance- probably TB4.

In that scenario, my overwhelming anger would be with those running the program and its implementation, and those whose brainchild it was to implement in the first place. Even though they wanted it to be legal, they've employed people to implement it who weren't up to it. As said, in that situation I simply cannot see how the senior coach and senior assistant don't cop some of the blame.

What kind of message does it really send about Essendon as a club if the players are suspended while the instigators of the program wear no further consequences?

As Ben noted, it's far from uncommon in the corporate world for that chain of accountability to extend further than lines of demarcation of responsibility would initially suggest they should.

I'm still getting the impression some people aren't quite grasping just how dire and cataclysmic it will be if players are suspended.

 

[vaughany]

Any word if a book is in the pipeline for this whole saga?

 

[60sbomber]

I am very disappointed with the (multiple) posters here who think that Hird and others should go if players are suspended.

As I have said before, what was done remains the same, irrespective of the outcome of the SC/INs.
The case against the players will be decided by legalities. Whether a tribunal accepts ASADA's assertions about what its circumstantial "evidence" means, and the burden of proof required etc.
We will never know the full story unless Dank were to come clean, which he clearly won't.
The outcome of those legalities etc in no way enlarges or diminishes what Hird, Thompson, Goodwin, Reid etc have done or are responsible for.

You should judge how you view their roles now, and not let the final outcome distract you.

If the players get off, it doesn't make anyone more innocent, it just means we dodged a bullet based on the legalities. If the players are suspended, it doesn't make anyone more guilty, it just means we got done on the legalities and some tribunal's interpretation of the rubbish that ASADA are going to put up.

In my view, Hird is innocent of all wrongdoing. He has the character, loyalty and competence of a leader that is rare, and not to be discarded, and the club owes him a huge debt of gratitude for what he has borne on its behalf for the last 12 months.

There is no way I can accept that we should have some sort of clean out, for the sake of appeasing the masses, or even for the sake of making a new start, when that would mean sacrificing those who have stood tall and done so much for our club through this crisis.

FFS show some solidarity and strength of character, and support Hird, Thompson and all those at the club who have steered us through this to the best of their ability.

 

[Doss]

How can the final outcome be just discounted if players are suspended for two years?

It's a little more severe than just a bump in the road. It's as bad as it gets as far as the club, players and fans are concerned.