We’ll fight radical Islam for 100 years, says ex-army head Peter Leahy

[Scallop Industry Thug]

But it is not extremisms, this is normal behaviour for any large population of Muslims living in a western country. Do some research on the UK, France, Belgium or the Netherlands to see how good Muslims are at integrating. Or how about visit the Middle East to see how well Women are treated.

Stop watching A current Affair.

There is plenty of crap in the Bible no doubt, the difference is that large groups of Christians or Jews are not failing to integrate into Western society. There are not too many Christian women forced to walk around with a bag on their head. In fact it is pretty clear that Western society is based upon Christian and Jewish traditions and beliefs and has allowed society to evolve. If Muslims had their way, they would rather we devolved back to the dark ages.

Yeah nah look.

Very little of what you say is based in fact and is more about spitting out News Ltd style irrational prejudice.

 

[mojito]

Get off Stormfront, start engaging with feminists.

There's a difference?

(sorry) aha

 

[TooFar]

Stop watching A current Affair.



Yeah nah look.

Very little of what you say is based in fact and is more about spitting out News Ltd style irrational prejudice.

Poor response.

I could not tell you the last time I watched A current affair, however I do read NEWS ltd, along with The Age, Aljazeera, Alarabiya, the Gulftimes, The NY times, BBCNews, Globe & Mail, The Independent and many others. I also read a number of Islamic forums. I am not the right wing bigot you think I am. In fact most people who know me would think I am a tree hugging, bike riding, liberal socialist.

I was once someone like you, naive, but I lived in the Middle East for two years and in a non-English speaking city for nearly 10. I have firsthand experience and examples that have changed my way of thinking. I have spent some time studying the Koran and reading what leading Clerics and Imams are preaching around the world. And as I said, I follow a couple for Islamic forums. I have also learnt a bit of Arabic.

My opinion has not come from the back of a cereal box, but from a good hard look under the covers, and I don’t like what I see.

You may go on thinking that everything is going to be okay, there is nothing to see here, Muslims are just like every other wave of immigrant that have come before them, time will sort things out. I hope you are right, but I believe you are very wrong.

 

[cartwright]

Poor response.

I could not tell you the last time I watched A current affair, however I do read NEWS ltd, along with The Age, Aljazeera, Alarabiya, the Gulftimes, The NY times, BBCNews, Globe & Mail, The Independent and many others. I also read a number of Islamic forums. I am not the right wing bigot you think I am. In fact most people who know me would think I am a tree hugging, bike riding, liberal socialist.

I was once someone like you, naive, but I lived in the Middle East for two years and in a non-English speaking city for nearly 10. I have firsthand experience and examples that have changed my way of thinking. I have spent some time studying the Koran and reading what leading Clerics and Imams are preaching around the world. And as I said, I follow a couple for Islamic forums. I have also learnt a bit of Arabic.

My opinion has not come from the back of a cereal box, but from a good hard look under the covers, and I don’t like what I see.

You may go on thinking that everything is going to be okay, there is nothing to see here, Muslims are just like every other wave of immigrant that have come before them, time will sort things out. I hope you are right, but I believe you are very wrong.

what country in the ME did you live in?

 

[TooFar]

what country in the ME did you live in?

Qatar.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Is that all you see? Why are you deflecting and not addressing the real issue here?

And no, the majority of Australians do not believe they have been told by god that sexism and misogyny is a the correct way to live.

So why do we still see sexism and misogyny in western culture if God hasn't told us to be that way?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

You may go on thinking that everything is going to be okay, there is nothing to see here, Muslims are just like every other wave of immigrant that have come before them, time will sort things out. I hope you are right, but I believe you are very wrong.

Fair enough, I respect the fact you have firsthand experience.

As a secular lefty, I find any theocratic movement a major concern. Ive put my opinion in writing that lefties need to be more assertive when discussing our values; and ensure they are universal regardless of religion or creed.

Having said this, I dont see this Islamist movement in the same civilisational terms as yourself and others. Anyone beheading others, killing in the name of whoever is an animal but they are very much the exception in that part of the world. Even in this ISIS group numbers in the few thousand to the best of my knowledge.

 

[medusala]

I think you might find that peace has been a rare commodity in the west over our history.

But surely that cant be the case. Multiculturalism is fantastic. Different ethnic groups get on brilliantly despite what Murdoch says. Always have. Its only Stormfronts types who disagree.

Not sure why you only mentioned the West though.

 

[DarwinRoo]

For those that don't believe Islam is a threat to our way of life, and attack those who do as racist or Islamophobic, tell me what you think of this article. Is it highlighting what we can expect with more Islamic immigration or is it just further scaremongering?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...neys-muslim-land/story-fni0cx12-1227027488266

THE Lakemba Hotel is one of the last Anglo holdouts in Sydney’s otherwise Middle-Eastern south-western suburb. Frankly, the old joint — it opened in 1928 — isn’t putting up much resistance. Most nights the bar is closed by 8.30pm or so, because by then what few customers it attracts are insufficient to cover running costs.

Still, it’s friendly and hospitable. Staffer Poppy helpfully showed me to my $50-a-night room, which is the only option in Lakemba for anyone seeking short-term rented accommodation.

There are no other hotels or motels. In fact, there are no other rooms besides number 15 in the hotel’s residential wing. All the others are taken by boarders, one of whom has been here for 20 years.

It isn’t exactly luxurious. The room has a sink, which is nice, but nothing else by way of amenities. There isn’t even a Gideon’s Bible. Instead, reflecting certain demographic changes in the area, there is a Ramadan eating schedule.

Lakemba may be only 30 minutes from the centre of Sydney, yet it is remarkably distinct from the rest of the city. You can walk the length of crowded Haldon St and not hear a single phrase in English. On this main shopping strip the ethnic mix seems similar to what you’d find in any Arabic city. Australia may be multicultural, but Haldon St is a monoculture.

This does have its advantages. If you’re ever in need of groceries at 3am, head to Lakemba, where shopkeepers keep unusual hours, particularly during Ramadan.

The food is delicious, of course. I recommend La Roche and Al Aseel, but all restaurants in Haldon St are good. If you’re unfamiliar with Lebanese food, just go for anything with the word “mixed”.

And then there are the downsides.

A few weeks ago a large crowd of mostly young men assembled outside the Lakemba Hotel. Waving black flags, the men chanted: “Palestine is Muslim land. The solution is jihad.”

I asked a non-Islamic local about that night. “You should see them when they really go off,” she said. “That was nothing.” Another non-Islamic woman said young men sometimes shouted “sharmuta” at her from their cars. She looked up the word online and discovered it was an Arabic term for prostitute.

Across the road from the hotel is the Islamic Bookstore, which bills itself as “your superstore of Islamic knowledge”. Three books caught my eye. Here’s an extract from Muhammad bin Jamil Zino’s “What a Muslim Should Believe”, a handy Q & A guide to the Koran’s instructions:

“Question 43: Is it allowed to support and love disbelievers? “Answer: No, it is not allowed.”

Well, that might explain a few things. “The History of the Jews” seems a bland enough title, but the back cover quotes lines from Martin Luther that were used by the Nazis: “The sun never did shine on a more bloodthirsty and revengeful people as they.”

The book offers this view, on page 16: “No one can deny the fact that the Jews are the worst kind of barbarian killers the world has ever known!!! The decent great Adolf Hitler of Germany never killed in the manner of the Jews!!! Surely only mad people or those who love killing infants, pregnant women and the infirm will think differently.”

It goes on and on. Another extract: “Humor and jokes are strictly forbidden by the Jewish religion.” This will come as a surprise to just about every Jew on earth.

Another must-read is Mansoor Abdul Hakim’s charming 2009 text, “Women Who Deserve to go to Hell.” Turns out there are quite a lot of them.

“Some people keep asking about the denizens of Hell and the reason why women will go to hell in large numbers,” writes Hakim in the book’s foreword before listing various types of hell-bound females, including the grumbler, the quarrelsome woman, women with tattoos and women who refuse to have sex during menstruation.

“Men’s perfection is because of various reasons: intelligence, religion, etc,” Hakim explains. “At most, four women have this perfection.”

Mix this level of ignorance and loathing with the Islamic community’s high rate of unemployment, and conflict is inevitable. The Islamic riots of 2012 ended up in central Sydney but began here in Lakemba and surrounding suburbs, where seething young Muslims formed their plans, including printing signs reading “Behead all those who insult the prophet”.

One of the men arrested in those riots was Ahmed Elomar, who was subsequently convicted for bashing a police officer with a flagpole.

His lawyer claimed that Elomar was “overcome with the occasion”. The occasion continues. Lately, Elomar’s brother Mohamed has posed with severed heads in Iraq, where he is fighting alongside fundamentalist Islamic State extremists.

ack at the pub, a staffer mentions rare moments of cultural overlap. “Sometimes the young blokes will come in here to buy Scotch,” she says. “They try to hide themselves under hoodies.”

But when the staffer sees them later in the street, they don’t return her greeting. The hotel is haram — sinful and forbidden. Those early closing hours will eventually become permanent.

Why does he go to Lakemba and not talk to any Muslims?

He spent a day there and nothing happened to him. Sounds really dangerous.

Oh no the pub shuts early. Who the * really cares!

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Gotta love Australian news .. Pub shuts early - big story! Jewish Nazis? no mention:

Several dozen Israeli police formed human chains to keep 200 screaming far-right Israelis at bay as they picketed the wedding of a Jewish woman and a Muslim man in this latest sign of escalating fallout from the Gaza situation.
“Death to the Arabs,” they shouted, as several dozen officers, including Israel’s elite units, prevented them from storming the wedding hall in the Tel Aviv suburb of Rishon Lezion. No one was injured, but four protesters were arrested. They violated a court order not to approach the wedding hall by closer than 200 meters, the Times of Israel reports.

http://rt.com/news/180960-protest-jewish-arab-wedding/

 

[CotchNCo]

They don't sound like Nazis.

 

[cartwright]

Qatar.

Interesting. Just reading that Wahhabi is the state sponsored brand of Islam in Qatar.

Do you think you might have a different view point if you lived in say Lebanon or Turkey?

 

[Slax]

The biggest problem with fundamental Islamists is that the west never tried to fully understand them when they came onto the political scene nearly 40 years ago and because of that it has only amplified the problem.

If the West had been more responsive to Iran and been able to deal with their version you are extremely likely to find that others who wanted a true Islamic state operating under Sharia law would of operated off this model. Unfortunately this didn't happen and therefore those wanting a Sharia law state don't see any reason why they should stop at the Iranian version and therefore impose a more radical version.

We point fingers at different groups trying to lay blame elsewhere, but realistically we have failed to try and understand other cultures for far to long and it is now coming back to bite in a massive way. When you try and force a culture and system onto people who don't want it and show no effort to compromise then those who don't want it will stop negotiating and try and enforce there views. The USA and her allies tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan and are now encountering problems when others fight back saying they don't want it and can't understand why.

Capitalism is purely one system in which people can live by, it is not perfect and not for everyone, we must accept this and try and accomodate other views. The problem is those who view captialism as the perfect system do so to make money from anyone they can, when others stand in their way they will try and break them down any way they can.

 

[Power Raid]

Who cares what system another nation choses?

If they want a moderate or radical whatever, let them. After all who are we to tell them what they want.

 

[DardySingh360]

Who cares what system another nation choses?

If they want a moderate or radical whatever, let them. After all who are we to tell them what they want.

Yeah, and then people with those ideals migrate here, therein lies the problem.

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah, and then people with those ideals migrate here, therein lies the problem.

That is a different issue and even then it is a democracy.

So if the numbers want it, we get it. Again, who am I to tell the majority what they should want? That said I can't see that happening here in my life time or even beyond.

 

[pokerspiv]

Democracy is a bit overrated. The "Arab Spring" successfully installed democracy in a couple of arab countries, who then promptly voted for Islamic fascism. Indonesia is a democracy where women are raped and caned for having sex. So be careful what you wish for.

 

[Power Raid]

Democracy is a bit overrated. The "Arab Spring" successfully installed democracy in a couple of arab countries, who then promptly voted for Islamic fascism. Indonesia is a democracy where women are raped and caned for having sex. So be careful what you wish for.

Agree, democracy is overrated and feel immature countries like Indonesia should have democracy and mature nations like Australia need to adjust the model by reducing democracy by setting up more RBA and court like systems independent of government.

Democracy has a small sweet spot and definitely over rated.

Fortunately I have can travel anywhere I want so I have self democracy and vote with my feet.

 

[TooFar]

Interesting. Just reading that Wahhabi is the state sponsored brand of Islam in Qatar.

Do you think you might have a different view point if you lived in say Lebanon or Turkey?

Quite possible. But living in Doha opened my eyes and started a process of self examination and inquiry about all religions not just Islam. I was once an Anglican with leanings to agnosticism, now I definitely consider myself to be an atheist.

Qatar is certainly a different place with clear levels of class and worth. The local Qataris consider themselves above all others and have a sense of entitlement that is completely unjustified and painfully annoying. To them work is something others do. Thankfully educated caucasian westerners are 2nd on the class ladder so life wasn't too bad, just frustrating. I was happy to leave when my contract was up.

What was really annoying was the constant barrage to convert to islam in almost every conversation. Their belief that they are all on a mission from Allah to convert the world. The fact the muslims would lie to my face about their religion and then lie about lying. There is close to zero respect and tolerance to other religions. Where once I admired and was tolerant, I became less and less tolerant and started to loathe.

And outside of the ME I have also managed staff, and sat in HR with them while they complain about the company not providing prayer rooms, time for prayer, halal food and other islamic concessions. Now these may be fair complaints, but I have lived and worked in a number of countries and I have accepted the local culture, customs and language as they are, and the majority of people do. The exception to the rule is Muslims, in my personal experience they won't accept the local culture, laws or customs, they want to change the environment to suit them, not the other way around. There are clear example in Europe and in the article that I posted is an example of what is happening here. What do you think Lakemba will be like when the Muslim population doubles or triples? Do you think they will become more or less integrated into Australia, will they become more or less tolerant? Why is there such high unemployment in the muslim community, is it because Australians are not accepting, or is there a culture of entitlement?

I am shaped by my own personal experience, but as I stated previously, I have also spent considerable time researching the religion and I don't like what I see. To all those that apologise and make excuses for the religion, can you say the same? Have you read the Koran, or what is being preached around the world? Have you dug a little deeper?

 

[madmug]

Quite possible. But living in Doha opened my eyes and started a process of self examination and inquiry about all religions not just Islam. I was once an Anglican with leanings to agnosticism, now I definitely consider myself to be an atheist.

Qatar is certainly a different place with clear levels of class and worth. The local Qataris consider themselves above all others and have a sense of entitlement that is completely unjustified and painfully annoying. To them work is something others do. Thankfully educated caucasian westerners are 2nd on the class ladder so life wasn't too bad, just frustrating. I was happy to leave when my contract was up.

What was really annoying was the constant barrage to convert to islam in almost every conversation. Their belief that they are all on a mission from Allah to convert the world. The fact the muslims would lie to my face about their religion and then lie about lying. There is close to zero respect and tolerance to other religions. Where once I admired and was tolerant, I became less and less tolerant and started to loathe.

And outside of the ME I have also managed staff, and sat in HR with them while they complain about the company not providing prayer rooms, time for prayer, halal food and other islamic concessions. Now these may be fair complaints, but I have lived and worked in a number of countries and I have accepted the local culture, customs and language as they are, and the majority of people do. The exception to the rule is Muslims, in my personal experience they won't accept the local culture, laws or customs, they want to change the environment to suit them, not the other way around. There are clear example in Europe and in the article that I posted is an example of what is happening here. What do you think Lakemba will be like when the Muslim population doubles or triples? Do you think they will become more or less integrated into Australia, will they become more or less tolerant? Why is there such high unemployment in the muslim community, is it because Australians are not accepting, or is there a culture of entitlement?

I am shaped by my own personal experience, but as I stated previously, I have also spent considerable time researching the religion and I don't like what I see. To all those that apologise and make excuses for the religion, can you say the same? Have you read the Koran, or what is being preached around the world? Have you dug a little deeper?

Forcing people to convert, sounds like a bunch of Catholics to me

Religious imperialism is just another nasty human trait. Using the dumb & brainwashed to force their beliefs on others. Its usually done by the people with guns, not by any sort of logic. Just persistant brainwashing, like hillsong etc.

Security laws should be made & applied to all citizens. ANYONE who goes overseas & engages in conflict, military in nature, for any organisation, should suffer the consequences & be told to stay their as their right to return is revoked. Whether for islamic, christian or Jewish organisations.

 

[TooFar]

Forcing people to convert, sounds like a bunch of Catholics to me

Is it the same? If you go to Italy, will everyone you speak to try to convert you to Catholicism?

Religious imperialism is just another nasty human trait. Using the dumb & brainwashed to force their beliefs on others. Its usually done by the people with guns, not by any sort of logic. Just persistant brainwashing, like hillsong etc.

True, but the difference with the Christian denominations is if you want to leave the religion you can, In Islam the punishment for apostasy is death. This make it very difficult to leave, question or criticise the religion.

 

[cartwright]

Quite possible. But living in Doha opened my eyes and started a process of self examination and inquiry about all religions not just Islam. I was once an Anglican with leanings to agnosticism, now I definitely consider myself to be an atheist.

Qatar is certainly a different place with clear levels of class and worth. The local Qataris consider themselves above all others and have a sense of entitlement that is completely unjustified and painfully annoying. To them work is something others do. Thankfully educated caucasian westerners are 2nd on the class ladder so life wasn't too bad, just frustrating. I was happy to leave when my contract was up.

What was really annoying was the constant barrage to convert to islam in almost every conversation. Their belief that they are all on a mission from Allah to convert the world. The fact the muslims would lie to my face about their religion and then lie about lying. There is close to zero respect and tolerance to other religions. Where once I admired and was tolerant, I became less and less tolerant and started to loathe.

And outside of the ME I have also managed staff, and sat in HR with them while they complain about the company not providing prayer rooms, time for prayer, halal food and other islamic concessions. Now these may be fair complaints, but I have lived and worked in a number of countries and I have accepted the local culture, customs and language as they are, and the majority of people do. The exception to the rule is Muslims, in my personal experience they won't accept the local culture, laws or customs, they want to change the environment to suit them, not the other way around. There are clear example in Europe and in the article that I posted is an example of what is happening here. What do you think Lakemba will be like when the Muslim population doubles or triples? Do you think they will become more or less integrated into Australia, will they become more or less tolerant? Why is there such high unemployment in the muslim community, is it because Australians are not accepting, or is there a culture of entitlement?

I am shaped by my own personal experience, but as I stated previously, I have also spent considerable time researching the religion and I don't like what I see. To all those that apologise and make excuses for the religion, can you say the same? Have you read the Koran, or what is being preached around the world? Have you dug a little deeper?

No I haven't read the Koran. I do know many Muslims living in Australia, including those migrating from Afghanistan, Lebanon, Egypt. I grew up with my best friend being Muslim, and practically grew up in her home. Never had their religion pushed onto me.
I understand there are extremist elements of Islam. There are also many who are just moderate people, who go about their every day life.

Do you have stats on the bolded? That would be interesting. A friend of mine who converted to Islam, married an Egyptian Muslim and are living in Australia - he can not get work. His English is perfect. He is university educated. He has done barista courses. Applied for labour jobs. Can not find permanent work.

 

[Power Raid]

Forcing people to convert, sounds like a bunch of Catholics to me

Religious imperialism is just another nasty human trait. Using the dumb & brainwashed to force their beliefs on others. Its usually done by the people with guns, not by any sort of logic. Just persistant brainwashing, like hillsong etc.

Security laws should be made & applied to all citizens. ANYONE who goes overseas & engages in conflict, military in nature, for any organisation, should suffer the consequences & be told to stay their as their right to return is revoked. Whether for islamic, christian or Jewish organisations.

revoked or a please explain before deciding if revoking is appropriate?

what happens if a dual citizen Singaporean student returns home to complete their national duties, can they come back in? especially if they are gay and as a result worked cleaning trains?

what if whilst in Singapore, Indonesia invades and the Singaporean has to bare arms to protect Australian citizens trying to flee the conflict and return home?


I am just suggesting life isn't that black and white.

 

[Power Raid]

oh and who decides? I trust a government agency like the department of immigration with a redress avenue through the courts?

what happens if they were fighting in Syria but they aren't from Syria and Syria doesn't want them; where do we send them?

 

[Vic Vinegar]

The biggest problem with fundamental Islamists is that the west never tried to fully understand them when they came onto the political scene nearly 40 years ago and because of that it has only amplified the problem.

If the West had been more responsive to Iran and been able to deal with their version you are extremely likely to find that others who wanted a true Islamic state operating under Sharia law would of operated off this model. Unfortunately this didn't happen and therefore those wanting a Sharia law state don't see any reason why they should stop at the Iranian version and therefore impose a more radical version.

We point fingers at different groups trying to lay blame elsewhere, but realistically we have failed to try and understand other cultures for far to long and it is now coming back to bite in a massive way. When you try and force a culture and system onto people who don't want it and show no effort to compromise then those who don't want it will stop negotiating and try and enforce there views. The USA and her allies tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan and are now encountering problems when others fight back saying they don't want it and can't understand why.

Capitalism is purely one system in which people can live by, it is not perfect and not for everyone, we must accept this and try and accomodate other views. The problem is those who view captialism as the perfect system do so to make money from anyone they can, when others stand in their way they will try and break them down any way they can.

While the US (and the West) to a degree have foisted themselves on the Middle East, I don't believe this has anything to do with a "failure to try and understand other cultures" as you put it, but because a) most of the world's oil reserves are in the Middle East and b) misguided white guilt over WW2 and therefore continued support of Israel. Neither I support (I would prefer we work on alternative energy sources and let Israel rot in the desert instead), but the way I see it, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We get involved, its because we want oil and we want to force our way of life on others. We don't get involved, we are accused of not being good "global citizens" but using our wealth to save those poor souls cutting each others heads off over Abu or Ali.

You also forget that multiculturalism is a Western institution. Outside the West societies are either a) in tribal form (which is a recipe for disaster) or b) monoethnic. I see multiculturalism as a pretty decent method of compromise (another thing I don't support). Its logical that people migrate to the West in search of a better future (which implicitly suggests an acceptance of our values and culture), but by your reasoning, it also follows that it's perfectly natural for Western societies to baulk at the notion of having other cultures and systems forced upon them (which is what multiculturalism is).

The West shouldn't need to compromise (our attempts at compromising have failed), it should simply leave the Middle East (and elsewhere) alone, stop Western multiculturalism and discourage purely economic migration.