No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Don Won]

I was thinking about the NRL offer, and they should call ASADA's bluff.

ASADA have put in writing that they can claim no fault and also that there have been undue delays, so surely that stuff cannot 'come off the table'. If they tried to stick a two year ban in their face at a later date, surely that would just be laughed out on appeal.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

This is the organisation that wasn't happy with Ahmed Saad getting 18 months. If they had a skerrick of evidence which would stand up at the ADRVP, they wouldn't be trying to cut deals. Call their bluff, expose their pocket jokers and move on with your lives.

 

[scottmclaren]

I was thinking about the NRL offer, and they should call ASADA's bluff.

ASADA have put in writing that they can claim no fault and also that there have been undue delays, so surely that stuff cannot 'come off the table'. If they tried to stick a two year ban in their face at a later date, surely that would just be laughed out on appeal.

wouldn't any agreement tabled be "without prejudice".

Eg; case settled without prejudice outside of WADA code, no ADRV, nothing to see here. WADA would basically need to appeal ASADA's non-action. Could it be that there is some incriminating evidence uncovered by ACC that is classified and somehow cannot be used for any ASADA case (or any civil case). How does WADA come over the top if there is insufficient evidence? Does WADA ever attempt to collect their own evidence?

 

[Beerfish]

itsatrap.gif

 

[Walesy]

wouldn't any agreement tabled be "without prejudice".

Eg; case settled without prejudice outside of WADA code, no ADRV, nothing to see here. WADA would basically need to appeal ASADA's non-action. Could it be that there is some incriminating evidence uncovered by ACC that is classified and somehow cannot be used for any ASADA case (or any civil case). How does WADA come over the top if there is insufficient evidence? Does WADA ever attempt to collect their own evidence?

Nope, WADA have no investigative powers.

 

[vaughany]

Public drug in sport lecture on tonight at RMIT Uni

http://www.rmit.edu.au/events/drugdetectioninsport

 

[Stopher]

Given how much wheeling and dealing was going on between ASADA and a number of other parties who they should be completely seperate from, who would trust these jokers to not have a 'wink wink, nudge nudge', nose-tapping, curveball-signalling deal worked out with their WADA overlords to simply get players to plead guilty in any which way?

WADA can simply appeal it on whatever ****ed-up grounds they deem fit, as the player has pleaded guilty, ie removed any benefit of the doubt they may have had coming their way. Let's be honest, it is in both their interests to 'get' players, nothing more. It justifies their very existence.

Would not trust the campaigners as far as Dustin can kick a Sherrin down wind.

 

[Doss]

Given how much wheeling and dealing was going on between ASADA and a number of other parties who they should be completely seperate from, who would trust these jokers to not have a 'wink wink, nudge nudge', nose-tapping, curveball-signalling deal worked out with their WADA overlords to simply get players to plead guilty in any which way?

WADA can simply appeal it on whatever ******-up grounds they deem fit, as the player has pleaded guilty, ie removed any benefit of the doubt they may have had coming their way. Let's be honest, it is in both their interests to 'get' players, nothing more. It justifies their very existence.

Would not trust the campaigners as far as Dustin can kick a Sherrin down wind.

So you'd still trust them for about 74 metres, then?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Given how much wheeling and dealing was going on between ASADA and a number of other parties who they should be completely seperate from, who would trust these jokers to not have a 'wink wink, nudge nudge', nose-tapping, curveball-signalling deal worked out with their WADA overlords to simply get players to plead guilty in any which way?

WADA can simply appeal it on whatever ******-up grounds they deem fit, as the player has pleaded guilty, ie removed any benefit of the doubt they may have had coming their way. Let's be honest, it is in both their interests to 'get' players, nothing more. It justifies their very existence.

Would not trust the campaigners as far as Dustin can kick a Sherrin down wind.

 

[scottmclaren]

as the player has pleaded guilty, ie removed any benefit of the doubt they may have had coming their way.

this is why you would only sign something without prejudice. Problem is you are guilty in the court of public opinion.

 

[Here_we_come]

Definitely. That's why the front cover of our newspapers are more likely to have a picture of Shane Warne gallivanting around with his latest flame on the side than any in-depth coverage of just another suicide bombing killing just another 80 Pakistanis.

Sickening reallly.

Sadly when one's income is generated based on the number of views/clicks they get, this is always going to happen. News stopped being news a very long time ago (if it ever was actually about reporting "news"). It's now simply another form of entertainment and I feel it is more helpful to view it that way, rather than as a source of information.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Yep

All the news does now is to put fear into people.

 

[Tassieboy]

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/59566#.U_VZU2NhuFw

You know this is ****ed when you have Alan Jones onside.

 

[rumply]

Given how much wheeling and dealing was going on between ASADA and a number of other parties who they should be completely seperate from, who would trust these jokers to not have a 'wink wink, nudge nudge', nose-tapping, curveball-signalling deal worked out with their WADA overlords to simply get players to plead guilty in any which way?

WADA can simply appeal it on whatever ******-up grounds they deem fit, as the player has pleaded guilty, ie removed any benefit of the doubt they may have had coming their way. Let's be honest, it is in both their interests to 'get' players, nothing more. It justifies their very existence.

Would not trust the campaigners as far as Dustin can kick a Sherrin down wind.

If I was a player, unless there was a WADA rep in the room signing off on this 'deals', there's no ******* way I would even consider it. & seeing as WADA do not operate in that manner, these 'deals' are potentially just more smoke & mirrors - willing to bet your next 2 seasons on that?

Had to laugh this morning at all the commentators I heard saying they would jump at the Cronulla deal without hesitation, while not one addressed the big fat WADA elephant sitting in the room

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

If I was a player, unless there was a WADA rep in the room signing off on this 'deals', there's no ******* way I would even consider it. & seeing as WADA do not operate in that manner, these 'deals' are potentially just more smoke & mirrors - willing to bet your next 2 seasons on that?

Had to laugh this morning at all the commentators I heard saying they would jump at the Cronulla deal without hesitation, while not one addressed the big fat WADA elephant sitting in the room

Some people just don't know how the real world works.

 

[HirdyLannister]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ered-to-cronulla/story-fni5f6kv-1227031190793

Essendon players could accept similar deal with ASADA to one offered to Cronulla

SWEETHEART deal offered by ASADA to Cronulla players on Wednesday remains a live option for 34 past and present Essendon players.

ASADA boss Ben McDevitt signed off on 17 drugs notices for current and former Sharks players on Tuesday night, over the alleged use of prohibited peptides CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 as part of the club’s 2011 supplements program.

But all 17 NRL players have been offered the option of a one-year ban backdated to November last year, meaning they could miss as few as three matches this season.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/59566#.U_VZU2NhuFw

You know this is ****** when you have Alan Jones onside.

"Asada are unethical bastards"

Me like.

 

[Stopher]

So you'd still trust them for about 74 metres, then?

In light of the current ice bucket challenge, could we bring back the kick over the Yarra contest, but replace Sherrins with politician arses getting the boot into the water, to raise awareness of government corruption in sport? The donations would come in like a tidal wave.

 

[kfc1]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ered-to-cronulla/story-fni5f6kv-1227031190793

Didn't they report yesterday that only 5 of the Cronulla players had been offered that?

 

[Dan Cooper]

Needless to say it will be interesting to see how the Cronulla players react to the mail they've received.

Someone on SEN made the interesting point that the 17 players are at various stages of their respective careers, from inexperienced to experienced, to already retired. So their priorities in terms of the outcome that best suits them personally will probably vary from player to player.

Might lead to a split in the ranks when it comes to putting pen to paper with their replies?

 

[cymarak]

If I was a player, unless there was a WADA rep in the room signing off on this 'deals', there's no ******* way I would even consider it. & seeing as WADA do not operate in that manner, these 'deals' are potentially just more smoke & mirrors - willing to bet your next 2 seasons on that?

Had to laugh this morning at all the commentators I heard saying they would jump at the Cronulla deal without hesitation, while not one addressed the big fat WADA elephant sitting in the room

The NRL / AFL have a very big say in penalties too - not just ASADA / WADA.

 

[rumply]

The NRL / AFL have a very big say in penalties too - not just ASADA / WADA.

True, but WADA have the last crack right? They & only they make the final determination on whether any penalties handed out are adequate, & if not satisfied can appeal to CAS. Whether any appeal is successful or not is another issue.

It is WADA who ultimately decide when the books are closed on any given doping case - local drug agencies, doping panels & sporting bodies can get in and out of bed with each other all they like, but it matters for nought until big bad old WADA is satisfied. Again they may not win or even be entitled to appeal, but they always have that option to try.

At least that's my reading of things.

 

[cymarak]

True, but WADA have the last crack right? They & only they make the final determination on whether any penalties handed out are adequate, & if not satisfied can appeal to CAS. Whether any appeal is successful or not is another issue.

It is WADA who ultimately decide when the books are closed on any given doping case - local drug agencies, doping panels & sporting bodies can get in and out of bed with each other all they like, but it matters for nought until big bad old WADA is satisfied. Again they may not win or even be entitled to appeal, but they always have that option to try.

At least that's my reading of things.

I think your understanding's broadly on the money.

My point is pretty much that if the AFL or NRL decided - for whatever reason, although I suspect it's unlikely - to whack a player with a heavier penalty than what ASADA / WADA had 'negotiated' with the player - that would be the penalty the player would cop unless a party were able to appeal AND win the appeal.

I don't know whether ASADA / WADA have ever appealed a doping verdict and said the verdict was too harsh and the player deserved a lesser punishment ?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

True, but WADA have the last crack right? They & only they make the final determination on whether any penalties handed out are adequate, & if not satisfied can appeal to CAS. Whether any appeal is successful or not is another issue.

It is WADA who ultimately decide when the books are closed on any given doping case - local drug agencies, doping panels & sporting bodies can get in and out of bed with each other all they like, but it matters for nought until big bad old WADA is satisfied. Again they may not win or even be entitled to appeal, but they always have that option to try.

At least that's my reading of things.

you're right. I just don't understand how anyone can be expected to accept a deal based on you pleading guilty from the local anti doping office, when head office haven't explicitly approved it and can overturn it, after you've conceded your guilt. It's crazy.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I think your understanding's broadly on the money.

My point is pretty much that if the AFL or NRL decided - for whatever reason, although I suspect it's unlikely - to whack a player with a heavier penalty than what ASADA / WADA had 'negotiated' with the player - that would be the penalty the player would cop unless a party were able to appeal AND win the appeal.

I don't know whether ASADA / WADA have ever appealed a doping verdict and said the verdict was too harsh and the player deserved a lesser punishment ?

they actually have.

There was a sporting body that handed down life bans for a first offence. WADA took them to CAS and had it overturned on the basis of it being out of line with their code