Opinion Beams deal reviewed - incoming players (bumped, see post #672)

[jackcass]

I don't think Greenwood should be included.

Beams leaving was not crucial in us getting Greenwood, if Beams stayed we would still have made a play for Greenwood and reckon North would hv had to settle for our 2nd round pick with perhaps later rd swaps.

Having Beams and Greenwood on the list would have been interesting

But then you forego Maynard... So it then becomes Greenwood, De Goey, Crisp, Maynard v Beams & Greenwood.

 

[Matt_352]

Very early days but

Beams will get much more attention at Brisbane then what he did at Pies, will he be able to handle the heat ?

Statistically Greenwood stacks up pretty well against Dayne and is a farking BULL who runs both ways and complements Swan and Pendles far more then Dayne.

Very early but if Crisp continues to improve then we have some of the best steak knives ive ever seen.

Jordan De Goey just ooozes CLASS. Possible future captain material IMO.

 

[ZEV]

Let's not forget, Beams' form could drop off a cliff. Was Beams as good as he was because he had 2 of the 5 best mids in the AFL protecting him and taking attention away from him? Food for thought.

Daniel kerr syndrome?

Don't forget brisbane have got zorko and hanley and rockliff and are the best midfield of all time.....

Should be interesting to see how hard he works now with a big contract, wouldn't be surprised if the "quad" flares again

 

[Temploar]

The entire Brisbane midfield seem to be 'untouchable' so I wonder who gets locked down by a tagger, surely you'd have to keep control of Rockliff or Hanley before you bring your attention to Beams?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I doubt any of De Goey Greenwood or Crisp will be missing half a season due to a mysterious "quad injury"

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I doubt any of De Goey Greenwood or Crisp will be missing half a season due to a mysterious "quad injury"

.......or because of the "sniffles"

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think we need to seperate the two things:

1. We did not win the trade with Brisbane.
They got a young, near top-5mid, for pick 5, 25 and a bit part player who will struggle to get a game. (IMO). Crisp is also 3 years into the system - which makes you question why he took so long and could barely crack a game for a bottom-third team.
That is a steal for Brisbane.

The thread is not exactly about whether we won the trade (youre quite right, what we do with the picks is a seperate question) but whether the three players we landed from the trade and subsequent pick selections/ontrades will be more value to us than Beams would have been.

And I'd say unequivocally yes. De Goey alone may have Beams covered. Greenwood gives us the instant replacement we need (and on a simplistic 2014 form analysis is an upgrade on Beams) and Crisp is the bonus should he make the grade.

 

[N_Jaq]

I think in terms of individual player talent it's a loss, but as a squad it's a mark up. Not including Varcoe, we gained an established midfielder and a highly rated draftee, both of whom have obvious offensive and defensive skill sets and from what I can tell a team first, win or die mindset. Beams is a loss for sure, no question, but as a cohesive unit that buys in to the team ethos (side by side and all that goodness) we've made gains.

 

[jjsmitty8]

Whilst I agree with most of what has been said, I think making this comparison is a bit premature.

Sure De Goey is an animal and looks like he could be anything. Crisp showed positive signs too. Greenwood eventually found touch and like mentioned previously I think he'll compliment our midfield nicely.

But Dayne Beams has got more runs on the board than these 3 combined. He's genuine A-grade talent, and the deal will be judge differently by everyone depending on whether you rate quality over quantity or vice verser.

I do whole heartedly agree with the point in the OP about the fact that we were able to muster a 3 for 1 deal helped us get some players that can bolster other areas rather than just trading a mid for a mid and being done with it.

Personally, I don't think we can say we've won the deal, but we've done well from the deal.

 

[iGNITER]

Bit early to call thats for sure.

Beams is a gun... No doubt.

You cant honestly tell me that if you were playing a match today and all of Beams, DeGoey, Crisp and Greenwood were available to play on your side that you wouldnt pick Beams first and as a standout.

Not saying that DeGoey may not end up as good as or even better than Beams because who knows, I may have to look into my crystal ball.

Brisbane have picked up an ELITE midfielder for season 2015.
IMO none of the 3 players we recieved will be ELITE midfielders in season 2015.

I think we really got the best deal we could have possibly got.
A top 5 pick, a player that finished 3rd in the B&F of a top 4 side (Greenwood) and a young player with a big upside IMO he could be a serious player (Crisp).
All of this for a bloke that is a gun midfielder but could have walked next season via free agency.
Glad the deal happened now.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Predictions by definition are made in advance.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

The thread is not exactly about whether we won the trade (youre quite right, what we do with the picks is a seperate question) but whether the three players we landed from the trade and subsequent pick selections/ontrades will be more value to us than Beams would have been.

And I'd say unequivocally yes. De Goey alone may have Beams covered. Greenwood gives us the instant replacement we need (and on a simplistic 2014 form analysis is an upgrade on Beams) and Crisp is the bonus should he make the grade.

Yep I'd agree with that.
Only thing I would say is that I don't think Greenwood is an "upgrade" from Beams, and we will miss Beams' attacking prowess, but Greenwood can definitely provide a lot more when we don't have the ball.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yep I'd agree with that.
Only thing I would say is that I don't think Greenwood is an "upgrade" from Beams, and we will miss Beams' attacking prowess, but Greenwood can definitely provide a lot more when we don't have the ball.

i did throw in the "on exposed 2014 form" disclaimer so was only joking really. Beams obviously a better footballer than Greenwood.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Jury is still out.

If all three are solid senior players and don't play in the seconds for a majority of their careers at Collingwood then I call that a win. They are still taking up list spots and if all they are good enough for is VFL footy then they are taking someone else's spot like The Jordan Russell's of yesteryear. De Goey has a bit more time then the other two to develop obviously.

I've created a check list:
1. If De Goey can quickly become a top 20 player in our side like Langdon and improve from their to become a top 50 player in the league
2. Greenwood has a solid 3-4 years as a top 15 player in our side
3. Crisp is a top 15 player for 7-8 years


Tick 1,2 and 3 then that's a big win
Tick 1 and 2 and that's a win
Tick 1 and 3 with Greenwood being a VFL hack then that's a slight win (wasted pick 25)
Tick only 1 and that's a slight loss ( unless De Goey becomes a star)
Tick 2 and 3 with De Goey being an average 100 game player then that's a draw.
Just about anything else is a loss unless Crisp becomes a star which would be ironic.

This all assumes that Beams plays like he has over the last few seasons for 5-7 more seasons.

 

[ppoiter]

Jury is still out.

If all three are solid senior players and don't play in the seconds for a majority of their careers at Collingwood then I call that a win. They are still taking up list spots and if all they are good enough for is VFL footy then they are taking someone else's spot like The Jordan Russell's of yesteryear. De Gooey has a bit more time then the other two to develop obviously.

I've created a check list:
1. If DeGooey can quickly become a top 20 player in our side like Langdon and improve from their to become a top 50 player in the league
2. Greenwood has a solid 3-4 years as a top 15 player in our side
3. Crips is a top 15 player for 7-8 years


Tick 1,2 and 3 then that's a big win
Tick 1 and 2 and that's a win
Tick 1 and 3 with Greenwood being a VFL hack then that's a slight win (wasted pick 25)
Tick only 1 and that's a slight loss ( unless De Gooey becomes a star)
Tick 2 and 3 with DeGooey being an average 100 game player then that's a draw.
Just about anything else is a loss unless Crisp becomes a star which would be ironic.

This all assumes that Beams plays like he has over the last few seasons for 5-7 more seasons.

Sorry but I can only give you 1 out of 3 ticks for spelling of names

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Sorry but I can only give you 1 out of 3 ticks for spelling of names

Damn new players always get me. I will work on De Goey and Crisp.

 

[TradeDraft]

Whilst I agree with most of what has been said, I think making this comparison is a bit premature.

Sure De Goey is an animal and looks like he could be anything. Crisp showed positive signs too. Greenwood eventually found touch and like mentioned previously I think he'll compliment our midfield nicely.

But Dayne Beams has got more runs on the board than these 3 combined. He's genuine A-grade talent, and the deal will be judge differently by everyone depending on whether you rate quality over quantity or vice verser.

I do whole heartedly agree with the point in the OP about the fact that we were able to muster a 3 for 1 deal helped us get some players that can bolster other areas rather than just trading a mid for a mid and being done with it.

Personally, I don't think we can say we've won the deal, but we've done well from the deal.

No one saying the Descion being made. We are just going what the little we seen and the Potential what could happen

 

[mike123]

The entire Brisbane midfield seem to be 'untouchable' so I wonder who gets locked down by a tagger, surely you'd have to keep control of Rockliff or Hanley before you bring your attention to Beams?

Hanley who is injured or Rockliff who isn't very damaging.

 

[mike123]

People also forgot that Swan was injured last.

So our midfield will go from

In: Swan, Greenwood, Adams, Varcoe, Crisp, De Goey
Out: Beams, Maccaffer, Ball, Lumumba, Young(probably), Blair (hopefully)

I think our midfield improves comfortably.

A fully fit Swan is an upgrade on Beams. Greenwood is an upgrade on Maccaffer. Adams is an upgrade on Ball's output last year. Lumumba has more chips on the board then Varcoe are about even but I reckon Varcoe has slightly more upside. Crisp looks like a Young with 10m less penetration on his kicking but allot tougher and doesn't look like he'll make half the mistakes. De Goey for Blair is a clear upgrade, They look like they find similar amounts of ball but De Goey has impact when he touches.

 

[OniAu]

This will be a good thread to look at in 4 years

By then Beams would have moved back to Melbourne to be closer to his family

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

People also forgot that Swan was injured last.

So our midfield will go from

In: Swan, Greenwood, Adams, Varcoe, Crisp, De Goey
Out: Beams, Maccaffer, Ball, Lumumba, Young(probably), Blair (hopefully)

I think our midfield improves comfortably.

A fully fit Swan is an upgrade on Beams. Greenwood is an upgrade on Maccaffer. Adams is an upgrade on Ball's output last year. Lumumba has more chips on the board then Varcoe are about even but I reckon Varcoe has slightly more upside. Crisp looks like a Young with 10m less penetration on his kicking but allot tougher and doesn't look like he'll make half the mistakes. De Goey for Blair is a clear upgrade, They look like they find similar amounts of ball but De Goey has impact when he touches.

We also have Freeman and Thomas to force their way into the team, and Caff who you have in the outs list of course will be back soon enough. Scharenburg another although 2016 is more likely...possibly not in the midfield. Kennedy Seedsman and Broomhead are also another year older and will knock on the door too.

 

[TradeDraft]

We also have Freeman and Thomas to force their way into the team, and Caff who you have in the outs list of course will be back soon enough. Scharenburg another although 2016 is more likely...possibly not in the midfield. Kennedy Seedsman and Broomhead are also another year older and will knock on the door too.

I reckon Scharanberg could get some AFL Games in the 2nd Half of the Year

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I reckon Scharanberg could get some AFL Games in the 2nd Half of the Year

Hope so but perhaps in the backline rather than the middle.

 

[TradeDraft]

Hope so but perhaps in the backline rather than the middle.

He be a sweeping type that can Start Attacks. Bit like how Reid was doing it in 2011

 

[jmac70]

When De Goey wins his first Copeland he should thank Beams.