Preview R5: St Kilda v Essendon (game day thread now open)

[Sunshine Saint]

Out: shenton, saad, curren,
IN. : webster, dmac, acres,

Not that hard Richo u spud

Give it a break. Rubbish post.

 

[hayes]

Webster in for someone would be my only change.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think Richardson coaches like slow drying cement- and I'm not confident that he will change the team too much, but at some stage you have to fix things that are not working properly, as it only gets worse. Our defensive game is woeful and after the Collingwood and Carlton games, clearly our midfield is not working. We need to get more of the ball.. period- contested and uncontested, and I expect Acres to come into the midfield or onball, Goddard to come into the back half and maybe McKenzie to come in. Saad will go and maybe Shenton and Curren, though we need to develop a tagger. Webster may put pressure on Newnes who just doing his job at the moment and Richardson needs to get him in the game more- move him up the ground or whatever. I wouldn't be in a hurry to bring Montagna back in- should be via Sandy and it doesn't work for me that older experienced players are going to solve any problems..Roo excepted.

 

[Rors]

Seems a lot of people are hell bent on getting Webster back in the team so quickly, yet every report coming from Sandy in the last 2 weeks has told us his kicking has been absolutely terrible.... Leave him at Sandy until his foot skills lift to his usual standards IMO

 

[bird_man]

By the sounds of it, out of everyone in the VFL, McKenzie and Goddard are the two that probably deserve a game. Goddard has been terrific by all reports, struggled a little in one game but we later found out he was suffering from Gastro. Still managed to do some good things in that game though. McKenzie has been all class in the VFL, good clean skills, been great over head and has found plenty of the footy.

Acres has been solid without dominating and Webster is still fairly rusty by all reports.

I haven't heard why Minch didn't play this week but if fit he should come in IMO.

People suggesting Hickey could hold down the FF spot have been proven he has a lot of work to do. Longer has taken over as number 1 ruckman at the club and I can see why the club want to trial him up forward but I can't see it working to be honest. McCartin could probably do with more time in the VFL, but unless Roo is fit, we really don't have anyone else to put in there. White has been poor so far.

 

[hayes]

Seems a lot of people are hell bent on getting Webster back in the team so quickly, yet every report coming from Sandy in the last 2 weeks has told us his kicking has been absolutely terrible.... Leave him at Sandy until his foot skills lift to his usual standards IMO

That hasn't been a prerequisite for anyone else though. Wright is an awful kick and he was straight back in, at least we know Webster will eventually start hitting targets with some more games.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I'm TC's advocate, and I'm saying he should be dropped. Not through any fault of his own, mind you. He's being asked to play a stupid role, a role that is entirely superfluous and pointless in the modern game. TC sucks at being a forward who's role is to not be a forward (seriously, what on earth is that?!). There's nobody who could play that role well, because it's a stupid role. What's more, he's being asked to do so while he watches the game fall apart in the one area he is physically and mentally designed to excel in.

We lost against Carlton because of Murphy's dominance on Newnes, and because of our poor clearance work. It's one thing to realise as a coaching staff that you haven't picked enough inside mids or taggers. It's another thing to HAVE picked a dedicated inside mid and tagger, who has done that job before, and then leave him marooned in a forward line where nothing is happening.

Imagine you're TC, witnessing Murphy and the clearances, seeing the game slip away, and knowing - KNOWING - that you could get a helluvalot closer to shutting him down than Newnes, you could release Newnes to do what he's suited to doing, and win a few clearances along the way... heck, maybe you could even turn the game around, who knows? Well, no, I have to flipping sit here, and just watch... and then I'll have crap stats that justify them kicking me off the team and ultimately delisting me with no hope of being picked up anywhere else. Thanks, coaches. Thank you so flipping much.

 

[TassieSaint]

We need to fix more things than is possible, but I think our main isses are: forward line structure, ball winning, ball use and overall fitness/ability to pressure for 4 quarters.

On that basis fwd line can't be fixed unless Riewoldt comes back or Bruce/McCartin magically gain 3 years of experience each. As for the other areas Acres and McKenzie sound like prime candidates but their ability to run out a game at afl level needs to be considered. This is where someone like Ray would actually provide a lot of value if he was available.

 

[Winners Only]

I think Richardson coaches like slow drying cement- and I'm not confident that he will change the team too much, but at some stage you have to fix things that are not working properly, as it only gets worse. Our defensive game is woeful and after the Collingwood and Carlton games, clearly our midfield is not working. We need to get more of the ball.. period- contested and uncontested, and I expect Acres to come into the midfield or onball, Goddard to come into the back half and maybe McKenzie to come in. Saad will go and maybe Shenton and Curren, though we need to develop a tagger. Webster may put pressure on Newnes who just doing his job at the moment and Richardson needs to get him in the game more- move him up the ground or whatever. I wouldn't be in a hurry to bring Montagna back in- should be via Sandy and it doesn't work for me that older experienced players are going to solve any problems..Roo excepted.

Totally agree re AR just doesnt generate any excitment or passion and love for the club IMO! He is obviously a great bloke and very considered, but couldnt make a winning match day move to safe himself! Granted he doesnt have the cattle - but he also needs to considerably improve his positional moves during match days!

Dempster is getting over run in defence and we need some size through the midfield why not go back to his Sydney days and throw him in the middle?
He is killing Armitage & Stevens with his lack of midfield rotations?
We need more midfield rotations so we play a team of small forwards?
Savage when tagged why not move him into middle or the wing?
Newnes is struggling in the middle get him back to HB and swap with Geary.
Geary cant kick - get him out of defence?
We looked good in the NAB playing three talls plus Membrey up forward, season starts and goes away from it?
Is exactly how Carlton beat us we couldnt match them all when their midfield began to dominate?
Why play so many f....n defensive small forwards?

The one move that was Ok on the weekend was Shenton move forward - but he also needs to go through the middle?

AR think outside the box you say you want flexibility from your players well HOW ABOUT SHOWING SOME YOUSELF!

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Coach bashing at round 4 of a season we all knew was going to be a struggle

Geez!! Cant wait to see this place by rnd 10.

 

[crasha301]

I'm TC's advocate, and I'm saying he should be dropped. Not through any fault of his own, mind you. He's being asked to play a stupid role, a role that is entirely superfluous and pointless in the modern game. TC sucks at being a forward who's role is to not be a forward (seriously, what on earth is that?!). There's nobody who could play that role well, because it's a stupid role. What's more, he's being asked to do so while he watches the game fall apart in the one area he is physically and mentally designed to excel in.

We lost against Carlton because of Murphy's dominance on Newnes, and because of our poor clearance work. It's one thing to realise as a coaching staff that you haven't picked enough inside mids or taggers. It's another thing to HAVE picked a dedicated inside mid and tagger, who has done that job before, and then leave him marooned in a forward line where nothing is happening.

Imagine you're TC, witnessing Murphy and the clearances, seeing the game slip away, and knowing - KNOWING - that you could get a helluvalot closer to shutting him down than Newnes, you could release Newnes to do what he's suited to doing, and win a few clearances along the way... heck, maybe you could even turn the game around, who knows? Well, no, I have to flipping sit here, and just watch... and then I'll have crap stats that justify them kicking me off the team and ultimately delisting me with no hope of being picked up anywhere else. Thanks, coaches. Thank you so flipping much.

Well said! Poor bloke. Im frustrated aboutt it all, just imagine how he would be feeling!

 

[mysainters]

We are allowed to question coaching though surely?

Scott was questioned from day dot.

Lots of things I personally don't understand.

Mains things ill mention:

Selection: Some weeks have been unexplainable, pure and simple. They appear to not even understand the structure they want to achieve and just pick whoever whenever.

Structure: Ties in with above, things like the sub choice, forward line structures, really shallow midfield.

Shallow midfield: probably the thing I don't understand the most.

Lack of moves: Have they made a move this year? We just seem to lock in the 21 and ride it out.

That's not saying he won't be a good coach, but he certainly can improve.

 

[Rors]

That hasn't been a prerequisite for anyone else though. Wright is an awful kick and he was straight back in, at least we know Webster will eventually start hitting targets with some more games.

Then it just becomes a full circle-jerk.... Webster comes in, cant hit the side of a wheat silo with a rock, then everyone calls for his head after a week.

Leave him at Sandy to get more match practice. He hasnt played any competitive footy since the intraclub game on Feb 21st, & given he had finger tendon issue that needed surgery, he probably has been on restricted contact duties at training as well. 2 below average games at Sandy should not warrant a call up IMO. Give him some more time there, maybe another 2 weeks or so

I'd be more inclined to bring in Minchington for Saad & Dmac for Curren. Push Newnes to the back flank, DMac to the wing.

In: McKenzie; Minchington
Out: Saad; Curren

Webster back in 1-2 weeks, depending on his kicking at Sandy.

Trust me, I want Jimmy back in the team. I just dont want him back in when he clearly looks underdone & very scratchy.

 

[Defacto]

We are allowed to question coaching though surely?

Scott was questioned from day dot.

Lots of things I personally don't understand.

Mains things ill mention:

Selection: Some weeks have been unexplainable, pure and simple. They appear to not even understand the structure they want to achieve and just pick whoever whenever.

Structure: Ties in with above, things like the sub choice, forward line structures, really shallow midfield.

Shallow midfield: probably the thing I don't understand the most.

Lack of moves: Have they made a move this year? We just seem to lock in the 21 and ride it out.

That's not saying he won't be a good coach, but he certainly can improve.

i agree. so hard to understand wtf is going on

 

[Winners Only]

We are allowed to question coaching though surely?

Scott was questioned from day dot.

Lots of things I personally don't understand.

Mains things ill mention:

Selection: Some weeks have been unexplainable, pure and simple. They appear to not even understand the structure they want to achieve and just pick whoever whenever.

Structure: Ties in with above, things like the sub choice, forward line structures, really shallow midfield.

Shallow midfield: probably the thing I don't understand the most.

Lack of moves: Have they made a move this year? We just seem to lock in the 21 and ride it out.

That's not saying he won't be a good coach, but he certainly can improve.

Totally agree its not coach bashing, its just suggesting areas he needs to improve! I think AR is the right choice he just needs to get on the front foot with his selections and match day coaching!

 

[mysainters]

i agree. so hard to understand wtf is going on

So we talk it out and have opinions, doesn't mean it translates to "sack Alan"

I just want someone to explain these things to admittedly ignorant me, that I get it. Else I just figure he's flying by the seat of his pants a bit.

Nobody in the box has really done it before have they?

It's basically a box of assistant coaches.

 

[Saintbloke]

So we talk it out and have opinions, doesn't mean it translates to "sack Alan"

I just want someone to explain these things to admittedly ignorant me, that I get it. Else I just figure he's flying by the seat of his pants a bit.

Nobody in the box has really done it before have they?

It's basically a box of assistant coaches.

The coach is part of the whole deal, and as such should be under just as much scrutiny as the players if things are not going right, so some of you guys need to stop being so precious about our coach.

 

[Persevering Saint]

If we can't identify and discuss areas for improvement after a 70 point loss, and a 40+ loss to a bottom four side in the most must-win game of our season, then when can we?

I'm not saying sack the coach - far from it. I'm just identifying areas that I think aren't working, and where significant improvement would actually help the young players' development. Yes, I recognise I'm not in the inner sanctum, have no idea of all the intricacies of their planning. But from my albeit limited knowledge base, I'm simply pointing out what from our view seems rather strange and counter-productive.

 

[Defacto]

If we can't identify and discuss areas for improvement after a 70 point loss, and a 40+ loss to a bottom four side in the most must-win game of our season, then when can we?

I'm not saying sack the coach - far from it. I'm just identifying areas that I think aren't working, and where significant improvement would actually help the young players' development. Yes, I recognise I'm not in the inner sanctum, have no idea of all the intricacies of their planning. But from my albeit limited knowledge base, I'm simply pointing out what from our view seems rather strange and counter-productive.

this, well worded. better than i ever could

 

[Defacto]

i'll probably get flamed for this but i'd drop sinclair. started amazing but then went to sleep. i'd replace him with mckenzie, lack of form for good form

 

[mysainters]

this, well worded. better than i ever could

Persy FTW...

 

[mysainters]

It wasn't fair on Tom or Jack.

Newnes is out of form though IMO, I think they were trying to give him a focus.

 

[Persevering Saint]

For mine, here's the changes:

1. Shenton > Lee. More upside, better decision-making, more future, better disposal, better defensive skills. Lose a little run, but that's it.
2. Curren > Weller. Bring in an inside-ball-winning tagger, for a guy who should have been played as an inside-ball-winning tagger. Let TC get some confidence back at the VFL, before having ripped away from him the next time he's brought into the AFL to play a role that shouldn't even exist.
3. Saad > McKenzie. Take out our fourth small forward (I thought the mosquito fleet was a Watters thing...?) for a midfielder. That might help.
4. Membrey > Acres. As scintillating as Tim's 8 possessions, 1 mark, no score game was, why not bring Acres in to play that third-forward/mid role.
5. McCartin > Hickey. I don't think Hickey's the ideal full-forward, but neither is Paddy right now. Put him in the VFL and let him grow. At least with Hickey, he can help out Longer a bit, especially against the Bombers' strong ruck and midfield set up.

FB: Dempster, Delaney, Wright
HB: Lee, Fisher, Roberton
C: Savage, Armitage, Newnes
R: Longer, Weller, Steven
HF: Schneider, Bruce, Acres
FF: Billings, Hickey, Lonie
I/C: Geary, Sinclair, Dunstan
SUB: McKenzie

Will that team win? No. But it looks a heckuvalot better, structurally.
Will anything like these selections happen? I highly suspect not.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

We are allowed to question coaching though surely?

Scott was questioned from day dot.

Lots of things I personally don't understand.

Mains things ill mention:

Selection: Some weeks have been unexplainable, pure and simple. They appear to not even understand the structure they want to achieve and just pick whoever whenever.

Structure: Ties in with above, things like the sub choice, forward line structures, really shallow midfield.

Shallow midfield: probably the thing I don't understand the most.

Lack of moves: Have they made a move this year? We just seem to lock in the 21 and ride it out.

That's not saying he won't be a good coach, but he certainly can improve.

Yes of course
I just think that at rnd 4 of a season that we were expecting to be crap & we have also had quite a few injuries and our reserve side has only just started playing so havnt really had a chance to prove form for selection yet.
Is a bit early to judge selection or form of a still relatively new coaching panel.
Dont get me wrong, if at the halfway mark of the season if we seem stagnate as a team regarding a gameplan. Then ill be complaining as well.
I just think rnd 4 is too early .
Thats just my opinion anyway.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Totally agree its not coach bashing, its just suggesting areas he needs to improve! I think AR is the right choice he just needs to get on the front foot with his selections and match day coaching!

The coach bashing line wasnt aimed at everybody questioning some coaching decisions . Nothing wrong with talking about concerns
I just thought the RICHO YOU SPUD was a harsh.