Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[HARKER]

Why are we worse? Look at our ladder position and the age of our list. The media are hounding us but that doesn't mean they're wrong. I really can't think of another club in a weirder situation than us. In the space of a month we have announced we are challenging, backed the coach, announced a rebuild, backtracked on the coach, publicly stated that our recruiting has been abysmal over the years.

Not against getting these good players to the club, just finding hard to see it happen if things continue the way they're going.

We beat the Saints without Montagna or Riewoldt; our problems haven't disappeared.

O.K. It may be early as things can and will change through the course of the year but I'm not going to flip-flop after every weeks results.
i.e. Dogs were terrible last week, now they're Top 4 contenders......Melbourne are now well ahead of Richmonds development......Carlton don't have any kids, OOOPS, Cripps......

You're saying that we're worse than 17 other teams but that's not the case when the players that have to stand up, do....Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson.
.................and St.Kilda were without 2 * 32 year olds and that would have made all the difference? Why not us being without Thomas, Yarran, Judd, Kreuzer, Menzel etc. Why not?

Let's see what happens but Carlton isn't the ugly destination you've made it out to be. The proof is already in that pudding.

 

[slashin_velvet]

The bolded is what I'm worried about. If we have a horrid year and the usual suspects are still getting games, I'm afraid we won't be able to sell the term "potential" to emerging stars.

You're not wrong that if we stink, we wil be less attractive than other melbourne clubs....but the way things are going, players will still be keen on getting out of Gold Coast and/or Brisbane who look in worse shape than us.

 

[chunkylover53]

O.K. It may be early as things can and will change through the course of the year but I'm not going to flip-flop after every weeks results.
i.e. Dogs were terrible last week, now they're Top 4 contenders......Melbourne are now well ahead of Richmonds development......Carlton don't have any kids, OOOPS, Cripps......

You're saying that we're worse than 17 other teams but that's not the case when the players that have to stand up, do....Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson.
.................and St.Kilda were without 2 * 32 year olds and that would have made all the difference? Why not us being without Thomas, Yarran, Judd, Kreuzer, Menzel etc. Why not?

Let's see what happens but Carlton isn't the ugly destination you've made it out to be. The proof is already in that pudding.

I'm not suggesting we're worse than 17 other clubs in terms of performance - we'll finish around 12th IMO. I'm saying we're probably the worst in terms of current list balance and direction.

We have made 1 finals appearance which has a big fat * next to it since 2011, our list is also a fair bit older than the other teams around our ladder position. It's currently not a great destination.

 

[Coona Blues]

Why are we worse than 17 other clubs other than for the media saying so?

Getting good players into your club is part of pushing back up the ladder.
A quality mid, a KPF, good development and we're already well into our re-build.

Our re-build has to come from inside moreso than it has to come from selling the farm for high numbers.
Let's get Byrne, Sheehan, DVR, Smith, Jaksch, Giles, Whiley up and running and all of a sudden we're not quite as bad as first made out.

Cannot like this enough....have posted similar in List thread

 

[HARKER]

I'm not suggesting we're worse than 17 other clubs in terms of performance - we'll finish around 12th IMO. I'm saying we're probably the worst in terms of current list balance and direction.

We have made 1 finals appearance which has a big fat * next to it since 2011, our list is also a fair bit older than the other teams around our ladder position. It's currently not a great destination.

We've improved our list balance no end from 3 years ago. Current results don't showcase that because we've turned over half our list in two years but our balance is much better..........the quality though is another question and remains to be seen given just how many newbies we have on board.

Our list direction is fine. I don't even know what you mean by that so it does need some explanation.
What haven't we done in the past 2 years that we should have? Some well planned things won't come to fruition (Boyd) but others will...you'll see.

 

[Quazza]

You've changed your tune Harks !

 

[chunkylover53]

We've improved our list balance no end from 3 years ago. Current results don't showcase that because we've turned over half our list in two years but our balance is much better..........the quality though is another question and remains to be seen given just how many newbies we have on board.

Our list direction is fine. I don't even know what you mean by that so it does need some explanation.
What haven't we done in the past 2 years that we should have? Some well planned things won't come to fruition (Boyd) but others will...you'll see.

Mark Robinsonescribe Carlton’s predicament on the field.

Mark LoGiudice: This would be a result of five to 10 years of poor administration and recruiting.


MR: Describe the actual predicament on-field?

ML: We don’t have enough depth on our list, full stop. We have great talent on our list, but I don’t think it runs deep enough.

That's our own president giving our list a whack.

So you really think if we finish bottom 6 and all of Carrazzo (32), Simpson (31), Walker (29), Jamison (29), Armfield (29), Warnock (28), Wood (28), Thomas (28), Murphy (28), Rowe (28), White (27), Ellard (26yr & 56 games) played regular games throughout the season - we would be an attractive club? I can see all the listed players almost being regulars, except for maybe Wood and Armfield.

 

[slashin_velvet]

So you really think if we finish bottom 6 and all of Carrazzo (32), Simpson (31), Walker (29), Jamison (29), Armfield (29), Warnock (28), Wood (28), Thomas (28), Murphy (28), Rowe (28), White (27), Ellard (26yr & 56 games) played regular games throughout the season - we would be an attractive club? I can see all the listed players almost being regulars, except for maybe Wood and Armfield.

If I was a young player coming to a club, I wouldnt be looking at the ages of player on the list unless they were my direct competition for a spot in the team and I didnt think I was better than them. What I would be looking at is the talent that I will be coming through with. Thats where Carlton concerns me. We dont have any very young KPF's or KPD's that look like future stars. Giles doesnt look to have the size to be that gorilla KPD, and all of our KPF's are in the age where they should be performing - and they're not. We dont have any young rookie rucks. Fields and Foster are too early to tell.

That is what would concern me about our clubs list and balance.....its positional, not age specific.

 

[HBF]

Got dumped on the weekend. Not something you'd do to a player that is a priority to the club.

I don't know whether it will be Day, Gorringe, Dixon etc but there does seem to be a fire sale coming up at G.C.

Their list just isn't very well balanced at all.

If you look at that in isolation then I agree with you. But Henderson was also playing 2's footy when he first came to Carlton and look at him now.
Day will be a pretty good player - he might just need a change of scenery.
Gold Coast will want a first rounder for him.

 

[HARKER]

If you look at that in isolation then I agree with you. But Henderson was also playing 2's footy when he first came to Carlton and look at him now.
Day will be a pretty good player - he might just need a change of scenery.
Gold Coast will want a first rounder for him.

Henderson was a couple of years younger but yes, Day is still only 22.

More to the point, there may be some key talls become available at the G.C. and it would be remiss for us not to be shopping around.

EDIT: Sam Day now out for 6 weeks having dislocated his elbow in a NEAFL game....out of sight........

 

[rp84]

Would need new undies if we could get shiel, darling, aish and mitchell.

Would happily give up our top pick plus extra for shiel. He is outrageously good. Would almost be our best player already.

Also want to know where the darling rumours are from?

Those four players would really lower the age of our midfield and likely increase the rate of rebuild. And importantly, they would still all be 10 year players.

 

[ShanDog]

Mark Robinsonescribe Carlton’s predicament on the field.

Mark LoGiudice: This would be a result of five to 10 years of poor administration and recruiting.


MR: Describe the actual predicament on-field?

ML: We don’t have enough depth on our list, full stop. We have great talent on our list, but I don’t think it runs deep enough.

That's our own president giving our list a whack.

So you really think if we finish bottom 6 and all of Carrazzo (32), Simpson (31), Walker (29), Jamison (29), Armfield (29), Warnock (28), Wood (28), Thomas (28), Murphy (28), Rowe (28), White (27), Ellard (26yr & 56 games) played regular games throughout the season - we would be an attractive club? I can see all the listed players almost being regulars, except for maybe Wood and Armfield.

If I'm young, talented and can get myself a best 22 gig with a pay bump for a trade, Carlton looks pretty good for a four year deal.

 

[rp84]

We would ideally target another 21yo kpd too. Need someone ready to step in while jammo is still around

 

[Mezzoculo]

Would need new undies if we could get shiel, darling, aish and mitchell.

Would happily give up our top pick plus extra for shiel. He is outrageously good. Would almost be our best player already.

Also want to know where the darling rumours are from?

Those four players would really lower the age of our midfield and likely increase the rate of rebuild. And importantly, they would still all be 10 year players.

Aaaaand would cost us an absolute mint to land! I'd hate to think what the club would have to do to get them all...

 

[thylacine60]

We might have to even let MEB go.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

We might have to even let MEB go.

You wot m8

 

[Azul]

I don't get the love for Tom Mitchell. We already have a short, slow contested ball magnet in the VFL - Nick Graham.

If Nick can't get a game, what's the point if we have Whiley and Walsh coming through?

 

[thylacine60]

You wot m8

whatever it takes......

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

whaddya gonna do, shred all the evidence that I ever existed? I'll go rogue on you man. BLACK OPS.

 

[HARKER]

You've changed your tune Harks !

How do you mean Quazza
Would like to be able to qualify what I say

Do you mean in respect to our direction?
I don't think our drafting direction through the Rogers era will change very much at all, regardless of the noise that comes out of the CFC
We may well be wanting to trade a little harder but the endeavour and net result can be poles apart. If contracted players don't want to go......they don't go

 

[HBF]

Henderson was a couple of years younger but yes, Day is still only 22.

More to the point, there may be some key talls become available at the G.C. and it would be remiss for us not to be shopping around.

EDIT: Sam Day now out for 6 weeks having dislocated his elbow in a NEAFL game....out of sight........

I think he's gettable, but he will come with a pretty decent asking price.

 

[thylacine60]

I want what she had for brekky........

 

[HARKER]

I don't get the love for Tom Mitchell. We already have a short, slow contested ball magnet in the VFL - Nick Graham.

If Nick can't get a game, what's the point if we have Whiley and Walsh coming through?

It's a case of out of sight, out of mind with Mitchell.

On profile alone, Mitchell may not be the type we'd be after yet Shiel would.........I feel.

If the 190cm Whiley comes on as is expected, our tune may well change by years end..............who knows?

 

[thylacine60]

I know. Pretty sure......

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I don't get the love for Tom Mitchell. We already have a short, slow contested ball magnet in the VFL - Nick Graham.

If Nick can't get a game, what's the point if we have Whiley and Walsh coming through?

What is Grahams performance like at AFL level. He certainly isnt regualarly rackin up 30+ and kicking goals in a premiership winning side like Mitchell was.

What is with everyone and thinking similar type means similar player.

"Oh well we wouldnt want a Gary Ablett. Weve got Marc Murphy, a short, skillfull ruck rover.. theyre basically the same!!!"

Mitchell is a superior player to Graham by at least two fold. Thats why we would want him