Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[Go_Blues!]

The AFL is in huge trouble.

By isolating one player because of his race they have ratified that it is a race issue. i.e. they themselves are being racist. If the AFL could specifically identify racial discrimination then that is a different matter.

A fundamental human right, such as free speech [or free booing], that which Australia and the "Western World" have striven to made part of our common day culture is being dissected and restricted by this mandate from the AFL.

I would like to see the AFL attempt to enforce the mandate against any one fan that does boo Adam Goodes. If that fan is booing because they do not like any aspect of Adam Goodes except for his race, then there will have been a breach of that person's human rights.

If Adam Goodes has the right to stand up for what he believes in then so should anyone else even if it is childish so long as it is not race related.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

Have I missed something. What has this got to do with freedom of speach? Do you even know what that is? Freedom of speach is the right to express yourself, your thoughts, your ideas etc. How is the AFL preventing anyone from doing that? You can go to the football next weekend and boo Adam Goodes and all the aboriginal player you see fit. You won't be sent to prison, you won't be charged, hell, you won't even get thrown out of the game. Just that everyone around you will know that you are racist. That is not a breach of freedom of speach that is the fundemental tenant of freedom of speach. You will be judged by what you say, but you won't be breaking the law by saying it.

 

[Forward Press]

FP there are plenty of reasons other than that which you choose to ignore, could it be, and god forbid, people just
think he is a nob? For any of the reasons mentioned in the previous 100 pages, or is you just prefer the term racial element?

I ask you again, do you believe that the 1000's of supporters who boo him are all racist?

if you answer no, how about you at least consider these other aspects

No.

Other aspects considered. Yeah, he may dive or milk a free a bit. Great.

So why is he getting booed for his first disposal in a game when he hadn't done anything up to that point?

 

[Goady138]

Such a Hawthorn comment to make.

When did Hawthorn make comments like that?
Be sensible here.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

Well the problem is the vagueness of people's motivations. You are strong in your beliefs and I believe you have no racism behind your booing so it would be unfair to label you as being one.

But some people are actually booing him for reasons that have been born out of racist attitudes, and as a result it's hard to differentiate which individuals are doing what and why, therefore by continuing to boo you're adding momentum to a larger group who at least for some people are being seen as behaving in a deliberately vilifying manner.

It's like the swastika, it was a symbol long before the Nazis started using it, but people learned to associate it with something negative. If you were doodling swastikas because you like the aesthetics of the symbol, you need to be aware of the larger context and that people may assume you are supporting the negative aspects that symbol represents.

I don't think Goodes should be be treated differently by saying you can't boo him, but the bigger problem is that he IS being treated differently by the crowds. This isn't comparable to anything else that has happened before. Not to this extent

So what is the solution?

In my humble, and probably irrelevant opinion, the non-booing of Goodes to dissemenate from those that do so because of racially motivated reasons has now succeeded in producing a situation whereby we treat Adam differently and segregate him. The exact opposite of what is trying to be achieved.

The PC AFL and media have now succinctly succeeded in going so far full circle they have managed to end up with their own heads up their own arse and are now looking around thinking hmmm i thought my s**t would've smelt more than this.

 

[calaisking]

No.

Other aspects considered. Yeah, he may dive or milk a free a bit. Great.

So why is he getting booed for his first disposal in a game when he hadn't done anything up to that point?

Dis-likable character. Why does Ballantyne get boo-ed on his first posi?

Same stuff mate

 

[sherb]

I think one great way to sum this up is - imagine you took your kid to a game and you started booing Goodes. Your kid then asks you why you're booing.

What do you say?

How about - "I've got no idea, I am just doing it because everyone else is"

 

[Spook]

I think one great way to sum this up is - imagine you took your kid to a game and you started booing Goodes. Your kid then asks you why you're booing.

What do you say?

Good point. I dislike booing full stop. But coming from you FP I find it a bit rich considering the way you have defended the west coast domain crowd for all the other booing: what do you say if your kids ask "why are you booing Libratore, what are you booing Rioli, who are you booing Ballantyne" ?

 

[BEEG]

Why doesn't the media drop this whole debacle and maybe it will go away? The fact that Adam Goodes and his teammates and the afl keep crying about it keeps the saga going. It's not racist to boo players, eapecially players who think they're a tier above the rest of the population. These war dances as well throwing imaginary spears at opposition fans are bullshit that's just inciting fans to react. thats not brave making a statement that's just being a straight up campaigner to opposition fans. Stop saying it's anything else.

Very well said mate

 

[Mcveigh]

What happened in Australia has happened numerous times around the World and many of the nations are still under the rule of their invaders, none of this is new.

I'm also pretty sure most, not all, new Australians accept that the indigenous people were here first, but does any one really own the land, shouldn't it be here for the benefit of all of us?

We are all humans after all, no matter what colour we happen to be, it's not like any of us is given a choice at birth.

The World needs to start working together as one so that not just a small percentage of people on the Planet can enjoy the benefits of a living in a first World country, or we can carry on with accusations and finger pointing and nothing will ever change.

This is should probably move to SRP but I will just finish my point with the fact that no modern race has inhabited a land for over 40,000 years and had it ripped off them in a fraction of the time. Then for over 200years to pass with descendants, who too did not choose to be born into a world where they are most likely to die earlier, commit crime and suffer much lower standards of life than any other Australian. For them to still not be recognised in the constitution, is a disgrace and is what Adam Goodes is standing up for.

Have a read, it is truly fascinating what we are still learning about the history of this very old race - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians

Please allow me a minute to climb down from my soap box.

 

[Cleric]

Do you not think at all that the booing has gone way too far? Sure boo him if he actually commits a dirty act. But to boo him for absolutely no reason at all if you actually WATCH THE GAME, then Goodes has every right to think that the booing is racially motivated.

Its got to a point with Adam where he has help create an atmosphere of conflict and them vs us with opposition supporters. Its become a game now. Its the same relationship that was created between Richard Hadley and Australian cricket fans. The chants of "Hadleys a wanka" everytime he bowled or batted. The fact that it annoyed him just further the crowds enjoyment of saying it. Its wasnt about race, it was about Hadley been a flog and the Aussie cricket supporters who enjoyed calling him out.
Its the same thing with Adam. When he did the war dance, and after his media interviews where he basically said if you were offended by it you need to go and research it and learn that your wrong to be offended. Especially after he had been preaching how you shouldnt offend people.
He directly confronted opposition fans who have taken up his war dance challange, and now he lacks the courage or strength of character to deal with it. He is a pretty weak minded individual. Awesome footballer though, and hopefully he will be remembered for his football career and not his failed social commentator role.

 

[Little Big John]

The rubbish that goes on politically behind the scenes pre Olympics is another example of why they shouldn't mix.

Of course they do mix but I just don't think their should.

The Olympics themselves are a political competition between nation states.

Politics and competition aren't easily separated. My view is I'd rather see athletes be their own people than just pawns of other (non) players.

 

[Go_Blues!]

If Adam Goodes believes that the Boo-ing he receives is racially driven, then he should walk away from the game for good to show how serious of an issue he thinks it really is.

Yeah mate you are right. He should bow to the superiority of the white man just like his people have for generations. Jesus, if one good thing has come from this sorry saga, it is seeing people for who they are. I had the view that AFL was inclusive and diverse. Posts like yours just show how wrong I was.

 

[incog43]

No.

Other aspects considered. Yeah, he may dive or milk a free a bit. Great.

So why is he getting booed for his first disposal in a game when he hadn't done anything up to that point?

See how easy it was to say no, opens up a whole new world which does not have to involve racism.

you want reasons?

Some People think he is a flog, people think he has been diving for years, people think he is self opinionated
people think he is up his own backside, some people dont like the color of his skin, some people are being juvenile
some people know it puts him off his game, some people...

you get my drift.

Theres all kinds of people out there all kinds of reasons including a racial aspect for some...some..not all and probably not most.

 

[Woodie99]

fair enough Woodie I can appreciate your comment.

just to be clear, you are fine with the swans defintion of racism now"

= booing Adam Goodes.

To answer your question, No, I have no influence on what people call "Racism" & I have no idea weather people are racially motivated or not, I just think it's childish for this to have carried on for so long.

 

[Forward Press]

Good point. I dislike booing full stop. But coming from you FP I find it a bit rich considering the way you have defended the west coast domain crowd for all the other booing: what do you say if your kids ask "why are you booing Libratore, what are you booing Rioli, who are you booing Ballantyne" ?

Since when does Rioli get booed?

Ballantyne and Libba (I assume you mean Senior) had a history of dubious acts - they're not being judged for something that happened off-field. And then of course we boo players when they are perceived to have been unduly rough or shooting for goal.

Great. But completely different from the Goodes booing before he had even done anything.

 

[calaisking]

Yeah mate you are right. He should bow to the superiority of the white man just like his people have for generations. Jesus, if one good thing has come from this sorry saga, it is seeing people for who they are. I had the view that AFL was inclusive and diverse. Posts like yours just show how wrong I was.

This post though.

Why even say " bow to the white man " I bet there's people of all nationality's boo-ing him.

God..

 

[ashep]

Know him personally do you?

I think you're a flog for pretending to know what Cyril thinks.

That and being a Sydney dick.

Oh sorry mate. Just seems that every man and his dog's a mind reader when it comes to Goodes and what he thinks I just didn't want to miss out on the fun. .

But yeah, the thinks you're a clown and so do Clarko, Hodge, Lewis and Burgoyne.

But you keep filling your lungs bud.

 

[tugga]

When Goodes did his initial spear throwing, I thought "What a knob" and thought he was being ridiculous and stupid.
I even thought about it for a while a few days later and still came to the same conclusion.
I thought the booing would eventually subside and we could all go back to what we were doing. But it didn't subside. it got worse until it culminated to a crescendo in Perth on Sunday.
So I actually sat down and thought about it again and this is where I can say that Adam's actions challenged me to rethink everything. As a society we applaud stands against racism as long it's on our (the white man's) terms. Goodes confronts this and challenged my perceptions by taking it a step further. He wants to stamp out racism and defend his people the way he wants and this is where I changed my tune.
Lewis Jetta stood up for a mate on Sunday. other players stand up for their teammates by means of fighting, wrestling and 'flying the flag'. A short war dance is far less violent way of standing up for a mate than a jumper punch.
What does this all mean? Well probably nothing for anyone, but for me I finally 'get it' when I didn't at first.
Why should Adam Goodes stop doing what he's doing because it may upset people? If people actually thought about why he is doing it, instead of jump to silly conclusions then I think they would understand a little better.
The only person's actions I can control is my own. Richmond don't play a home against Sydney this year, but I would not boo Adam Goodes and neither would my children if they came with me. That's a start.
I really, really, really hope the booing stops.

 

[sherb]

Its got to a point with Adam where he has help create an atmosphere of conflict and them vs us with opposition supporters. Its become a game now. Its the same relationship that was created between Richard Hadley and Australian cricket fans. The chants of "Hadleys a wanka" everytime he bowled or batted. The fact that it annoyed him just further the crowds enjoyment of saying it. Its wasnt about race, it was about Hadley been a flog and the Aussie cricket supporters who enjoyed calling him out.
Its the same thing with Adam. When he did the war dance, and after his media interviews where he basically said if you were offended by it you need to go and research it and learn that your wrong to be offended. Especially after he had been preaching how you should offend people.
He directly confronted opposition fans who have taken up his war dance challange, and now he lacks the courage or strength of character to deal with it. He is a pretty weak minded individual. Awesome footballer though, and hopefully he will be remembered for his football career and not his failed social commentator role.

How was Hadlee a "flog"?

That was the perfect example of brain dead morons chanting something appropriately brain dead without the slightest clue of why they were doing it.

 

[incog43]

So what is the solution?

In my humble, and probably irrelevant opinion, the non-booing of Goodes to dissemenate from those that do so because of racially motivated reasons has now succeeded in producing a situation whereby we treat Adam differently and segregate him. The exact opposite of what is trying to be achieved.

The PC AFL and media have now succinctly succeeded in going so far full circle they have managed to end up with their own heads up their own arse and are now looking around thinking hmmm i thought my s**t would've smelt more than this.

great post...they keep digging as well...

 

[subaru]

Have you seen health statistics for indigenous Australians. Infant mortality rates, rates of diabetes, heart disease etc? I'll quote one stat - life expectancy is 10 years lower. So maybe the atrocities of the past are not being repeated but inequality remains rife today. There is still a LONG way to go and surely advocating further steps in that direction can't be criticised?

I believe I pointed that out when I referred to health and education

But as with the house burning down example, when does it stop becoming my fault ?

Of course there is a way to go but getting people off side with comments and actions of such negativity such as Goodes has demonstrated is not furthering the cause

 

[javaguice]

Why talk about robbo at all than- he never accused you of starting to boo at start of game. The main overriding point is that the boos were brought into the game and started early- why say watch the game and not listen to Robbo? Robbo didn't say javaguice booed from start to finish.

LOLWOT? I still didnt boo until he pushed schoey...

 

[Maddo11]

I find it funny no one has commented on the Essendon fans booing Patrick Ryder?

Many people have, and it's dismissed quickly because it's completely different. Booing a player that used to pay for your team has happened for as long add there's been a league.

The booing of Goodes had only really happened post Collingwood 2013, with it escalating to the point it's been every away game since his AOTY award.

 

[Spook]

Since when does Rioli get booed?

Ballantyne and Libba (I assume you mean Senior) had a history of dubious acts - they're not being judged for something that happened off-field. And then of course we boo players when they are perceived to have been unduly rough or shooting for goal.

Great. But completely different from the Goodes booing before he had even done anything.

The west coast domain crowd boo everyone FP, you know that.

 

[Cleric]

How was Hadlee a "flog"?

That was the perfect example of brain dead morons chanting something appropriately brain dead without the slightest clue of why they were doing it.

He was a pompus stuck up knob. But you agree it wasnt about race yeah? You agree that supporters can make a game of it just because they dont like the guy, and nothing to with racism yeah?