Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[Forward Press]

So Allen Christensen is playing Geelong at Geelong this week. It'll be interesting to see what happens there. I'm just glad that Ryder played against the Bombers last week and not this week (not his 4 goals though, **** it!).

He gets booed for leaving the club in acrimonious circumstances. Like almost every other player in modern AFL.

 

[Summer Nights]

But those "plenty" would be wrong. As someone who has majored in Australian history at uni, I know that most Australians have a 'roses' view of the past, and all sorts of myths about our origins, and they don't appreciate having them disturbed.

Goodes is trying to make people reassess their comfortable thoughts about Australia's colonial past. He's trying to make people think... Perhaps it's unsurprising that many people are furious about this.

Have you read The Story of Australia's People by Geoffrey Blainey? His research shows Aborigines were murderous, vengeful, infanticidal people in a constant state of tribal warfare. That portrayal is a much more horrific life than modern colonial conquest overall, aside from isolated areas like Tasmania.

 

[Timewaster]

But those "plenty" would be wrong. As someone who has majored in Australian history at uni.

If you really have studied history you should know that it's not an empirical discipline, and the "truth" depends largely on who's narrating. Your uncritical acceptance of black armband history is no more correct than the colonial acceptance of British superiority, later US claims of manifest destiny, or Fukuyama's ridiculous assertion of the End of History.

You can blithely dismiss the views of people you disagree with, but it robs you of any fair claim that anyone should listen to what you have to say.

Your hectoring tone mirrors Caroline Wilson's, Pilger's or indeed Goodes', and is exactly what is getting people's backs up.

 

[Pea Nut]

The haka is an accepted cultural tradition but it's still meant to antagonise.

Why are we not as accepting of indigenous players doing a war dance to celebrate? Sure, it's meant to antagonise but just boo the player kicking the goal against your team, and get over it for the next bounce. For me the whole war dance kerfuffle is just as embarassing, as if the indigenous players aren't allowed to do something indigenous.

Are you seriously stupid ?? The Haka is a war dance and is performed at the "opposition" that they are about to go to "war" against. If the All Blacks were to walk up to the sideline and direct it at the Australian fans, all hell would break lose. How do you not understand the difference ??

 

[subaru]

Again - booing ain't a sophisticated way to communicate one's view of how to progress racial politics. It's effect may have a MORE negative overtone. People keep coming back to how he has erred with what happened with the girl. He might have - but is booing the way to deal with that? Do you seriously not get the problem with how the message is conveyed? Ironic given your main issue with Goodes is how he conveyed his message. Oh wells....

Since when have football crowds been sophisticated ?
What would you have them do ?
A petition ? Send him a card ?
Seriously ,.,.,.,.
You still have not addressed what came first ......
It's a reaction - you have someone pretending to throw a spear at you what go you think ?
As for the girl / he had ALL NIGHT to consider his statement next day and he STILL came up with she was the face of racism.
Please .... Just like his pre written speech, just like his predetermined war dance - none of this was off the cuff and spontaneous

 

[kidkenobi]

So what is the solution?

In my humble, and probably irrelevant opinion, the non-booing of Goodes to dissemenate from those that do so because of racially motivated reasons has now succeeded in producing a situation whereby we treat Adam differently and segregate him. The exact opposite of what is trying to be achieved.

The PC AFL and media have now succinctly succeeded in going so far full circle they have managed to end up with their own heads up their own arse and are now looking around thinking hmmm i thought my shit would've smelt more than this.

I agree that to say you can't boo him isn't the right message or a realistic option, I think then it becomes more about why you boo him. If it's 40 seconds into the first quarter and Goodes gets his first touch and 40,000 people boo him, it just seems stupid and you have to wonder what most people's motivation is. If Goodes smacks someone in the mouth in the second quarter behind play then it would be obvious to everyone that he did something worth booing and he can cop it like anyone else would. The problem is that what he is copping, no one else does, and I don't think a lot of people's 'innocent' justifications are actually that innocent.

Just treat him like anyone else, which means he's not off-limits to booing, but at the moment it's dramatically disproportionate to everyone else in the league, which is the other extreme.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

The haka is an accepted cultural tradition but it's still meant to antagonise.

Why are we not as accepting of indigenous players doing a war dance to celebrate? Sure, it's meant to antagonise but just boo the player kicking the goal against your team, and get over it for the next bounce. For me the whole war dance kerfuffle is just as embarassing, as if the indigenous players aren't allowed to do something indigenous.

In Rugby how many times has the haka been directed at the opposition supporters?

In comparison I've seen it twice in the AFL so far with the 'war dance'.

 

[teknodeejay]

But those "plenty" would be wrong. As someone who has majored in Australian history at uni, I know that most Australians have a 'roses' view of the past, and all sorts of myths about our origins, and they don't appreciate having them disturbed.

Goodes is trying to make people reassess their comfortable thoughts about Australia's colonial past. He's trying to make people think... Perhaps it's unsurprising that many people are furious about this.

My opinion: I don't buy it.

Historically, people, governments, nations did things which are abhorrent by today's standard.

Nobody today should feel responsible for what someone in a generation eons ago did unless you support or have committed such abhorrent acts yourself. Every action has a consequence and the consequence of our colonial settlers is that overly rich and lucky (by comparison) country that exists today. There are still inequalities, as is the burden of mankind. We can be responsible to help those who wish to be helped to bridge the divide of persecution.

Humanity has done some brutally flapped things that it considered acceptable in the past. I'm glad they aren't considered acceptable any more.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Thread topic should read:

AFL media muppets need to stop their 'campaign' against fans booing whom ever they choose to, says free speech democracy advocate - The anti brain-washed Megathread.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

How does that impinge on your freedom of speach or expression? That is what freedom of speach is. If you choose to boo Adam Goodes next weekend people will know you are a racist but you won't go to jail, you won't get charged, you won't even get kicked out of the ground. Freedom of speach does not mean that you won't get judged for what you have to say. Where does this idea even come from.

I thought several people got thrown out of the stadium last week for actual racist slurs.
The assuption had to be that i will be thrown out of the stadium this that impinges on my freedom of speech, although the context of booing can be many things but the special rule now created all for Adam means that i can't do that without consequences this i am feeling vilified and maybe Adam should be thrown out of the stadium as well for doing that to me.

You do see the ridiculousness of the situation surely.

Or are my feelings less relevant than Adams?

 

[Stopher]

He gets booed for leaving the club in acrimonious circumstances. Like almost every other player in modern AFL.

But if there are a small percentage of racists who see that booing as an opportunity to do so towards an indigenous player, is it now acceptable to do so? I had a friend tell me he'd be too scared to boo Goodes now for fear of being branded a racist, given all the exposure it has received.

 

[Summer Nights]

You now know booing is hurting Goodes, his family, his friends, his workmates and his community.

I'll ask again do you want to be that person who deliberately hurts and offends others? Do you think it is an act of decency to continue (regardless of what you think of that person)?

I'd ask Goodes to reflect on why he is being booed, be honest with himself and man up to the truth - the non-racist truth that some people disapprove of his behaviour. His refusal to do so shows his EQ to be on the poor side.

 

[Forward Press]

In Rugby how many times has the haka been directed at the opposition supporters?

In comparison I've seen it twice in the AFL so far with the 'war dance'.

Fair enough, I do personally think though that this 'war dance' controversy is overblown.

 

[Rob R]

I didnt watch the whole game on the weekend but the booing seemed to start when despite the umpires going to extremes to find free kicks all weekend, goodes shoved his opponent in the back so he could kick sydneys first goal. seems like rather than being racist it was actually against goodes being seen to get special benefits again.

 

[threesixpio]

So if an aboriginal is boo-ed it's racist, and if they're white its okay?
seems like double standards no?

I've booed Buddy. But it wasn't because of his stance on racism in the AFL. And some people have booed Goodes for "normal" footy reasons. But the every game every possession booing is getting crazy and likely is related to how he is "divisive".

 

[Forward Press]

But if there are a small percentage of racists who see that booing as an opportunity to do so towards an indigenous player, is it now acceptable to do so? I had a friend tell me he'd be too scared to boo Goodes now for fear of being branded a racist, given all the exposure it has received.

So we have less booing. I don't see that as a bad thing, maybe we can actually focus on football now.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

The haka is an accepted cultural tradition but it's still meant to antagonise.

Why are we not as accepting of indigenous players doing a war dance to celebrate? Sure, it's meant to antagonise but just boo the player kicking the goal against your team, and get over it for the next bounce. For me the whole war dance kerfuffle is just as embarassing, as if the indigenous players aren't allowed to do something indigenous.

The haka is at the start of the game and directed at the opposition players, not the opposition supporters.
In saying that, I believe Adam has got the message and it's time for everyone to back off, he is still a champion of the game.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Fair enough, I do personally think though that this 'war dance' controversy is overblown.

I agree, until I hear comments like 'Just learn from it' from the player himself when the reality of the situation is that it would never, ever happen in Rugby and for a very, very good reason.

 

[Go_Blues!]

What came first ???
People didn't just get up one morning and decide to boo him

Booing is the negative reaction to a negative action

The fact that it's equal and opposite also is the way of the world


If Goodes does big hug of the 13 year old girl and says I forgive you for what you said, would that not have been a better course of action ?

Didn't he do exactly that?

 

[SBYM]

I'm sorry English isn't my first language.

My point still stands Waleed is full of it.

Fair enough...

But I'd like some evidence to back up your assertion that he is 'full of it'...please direct me to some scholarly/academic/evidence-based articles or essays that support your claim.

As far as I can tell his monograph, book chapters and journal articles seem to be backed up by pretty robust evidence.

 

[Maddo11]

So Allen Christensen is playing Geelong at Geelong this week. It'll be interesting to see what happens there. I'm just glad that Ryder played against the Bombers last week and not this week (not his 4 goals though, **** it!).

The treatment goodes has been receiving is completely different than when a player faces their former home crowd. And it's been covered multiple times already this thread and adds nothing to the argument.

 

[Big Lion]

But those "plenty" would be wrong. As someone who has majored in Australian history at uni, I know that most Australians have a 'roses' view of the past, and all sorts of myths about our origins, and they don't appreciate having them disturbed.

Goodes is trying to make people reassess their comfortable thoughts about Australia's colonial past. He's trying to make people think... Perhaps it's unsurprising that many people are furious about this.

Where and when does it all end? Wrongs have been committed throughout history, how long do we dwell on the past and is it at the expense of the future. How long will people live in the past. When is the time to unite and move forward.

It's hard to move forward when you keep looking back.

 

[Pupz]

Not all people booing are of one race, don't think this is racism. Racism keeps getting blown out of proportion thanks to half wits like goodes.

 

[threesixpio]

Since when have football crowds been sophisticated ?
What would you have them do ?
A petition ? Send him a card ?
Seriously ,.,.,.,.
You still have not addressed what came first ......
It's a reaction - you have someone pretending to throw a spear at you what go you think ?
As for the girl / he had ALL NIGHT to consider his statement next day and he STILL came up with she was the face of racism.
Please .... Just like his pre written speech, just like his predetermined war dance - none of this was off the cuff and spontaneous

And yet all of your "reasons" for the booing ARE not unsophisticated I suppose (sorry for the double negatives....) Oodles of well thought arguments about how divisive he is and what not ....I know - lets Boo!!

Is it possible the reasons for booing are as equally unsophisticated?

 

[Medika_J]

If you really have studied history you should know that it's not an empirical discipline, and the "truth" depends largely on who's narrating. Your uncritical acceptance of black armband history is no more correct than the colonial acceptance of British superiority, later US claims of manifest destiny, or Fukuyama's ridiculous assertion of the End of History.

You can blithely dismiss the views of people you disagree with, but it robs you of any fair claim that anyone should listen to what you have to say.

Your hectoring tone mirrors Caroline Wilson's, Pilger's or indeed Goodes', and is exactly what is getting people's backs up.

How is my saying that I've studied Australian history 'hectoring,' old chap? Nice defensive attitude you have there.

'If you really have studied history' ... Right, because that's something people make up on the Internet. 'Ahem! History major over here! I spend my life amongst the library stacks and have about zero career prospects after graduation. One day you'll be as cool as me.'

Being a history major means I understand Empiricism as being one of (and the first) methods of historiography. Somewhat fallen out of favour in the face of 'social history' which is not say any good piece of historiography does not still need to be evidence-based. But certainly historians are more open to ideas of interpretation since the Annales school etc.

Black armband history... Whenever I hear that term I want laugh or punch a wall. Basically, if you don't subscribe to the idea that early colonialists in Australia were loveable, salt of the earth folk, who created the myth of mateship and the heroic pioneer, and that aboriginal Australians didn't simply die out in a passive, gentle way through the spread of diseases, you are taking an "overtly pessimistic" view of Australia's colonial past.