Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[momentbymoment]

It's not, I'm not throwing imaginary spears at the Japanese because they bombed us.

I understand that it happened in a different era and things are different now.

But if you lived as an indigenous person in Japan you may very well throw imaginary spears.

The indigenous cultures around the world hold all sorts of wisdom that we will be desperately wanting in a few decades time.

Perhaps if you can't show them respect for their sake. Start thinking about the future of your children.

 

[Macca81]

If he had done it at the start of the match, not run to the Carlton cheer squad to do it, yeah fair enough, but it was an obvious **** you to the cheer squad, who were vastly out numbered by the swans crowd, and nothing at all to do with the indigenous round. He knew he could get away with it. And since inflaming the crowd with the great Aussie salute is frown upon, and indeed, players are reprimanded or fined for it, why was he the acception the rule? Maybe people are sick of him getting away with shit? He came at me like that I would not applaud his war dance, I'd shoot him with my fake gun. But of course that makes me a racist, but not him.

As for you acting like a tool, have a look at the thread about goal celebrations, players on there getting smashed for far less demonstrative celebrating.

If he wants equality, he needs to play by the same rules as everyone else. He got special treatment for his dance, and that's not right. I don't care what round it was.

Exactly right. Goodes and the AFL have themselves to blame for the treatment goodes gets from the crowd. No-one else. Goodes has dished it out but obviously doesn't have the mental strength to cop it when he acts like the villain.

If he really is suffering mental issues then he needs to withdraw from the spotlight altogether for his wellbeing

 

[Malifice]

Ahhh social approval. So is this a majority rules type thing? With the majority of the collective holding sway? A simple majority or absolute majority?

And if a community majority (whatever it may be) does not accept my claims or forms an alternative view then my position or identity is voided?

Ethnic groups are (by definition) groups. Claiming to be part of an ethnicity generally is not enough - it also generally requires some form of acceptance by that particular ethnicity of your 'belonging' - in addition to self identification.

In other words it's a social construct.

I cant recall ever being biologically tested to determine my ethnicity. It was a question of whom I was raised as, am accepted as, and accept myself as. Biologically determined appearance (skin color, height, eye color etc) may influence that acceptance and self identification to some extent. If my father was black and mother white, and I was darker or lighter in skin color, I may identify stronger with one over the other. Same can be said if i was raised to favor a particular ethnicity over another (for example if my mother was Jewish and my father was black African, and I was raised Jewish by my family, I'd be far more likely to identify as Jewish than as a black African - regardless of the color of my skin).

There aren't any biological discreet 'races' - the lines of demarcation and the categories themselves are defined socially, not biologically.

For the record, I personally have distant Aboriginal ancestry - however I was not raised as such and nor would I be likely to be recognized as such by Aboriginal people (physically, I take after my English mother); accordingly I do not identify as such. That's a choice I make myself - It would be no different if I had (for example) a Greek great grandfather; unless I was raised as such I wouldn't consider myself 'Greek' in anything other than a technicality. It's entirely possible that with a similar lineage, and a different upbringing, I could have gone a different way. I also have dual citizenship with the UK but do not consider myself 'British' in anything more than name. Statistically this means I probably have Angle, Celt, Norman, Saxon, Pict (through my Scottish side), Danish, Roman, Aboriginal and likely dozens of other ethnic groups floating around 'in' me. To say I am one or the other based on 'genetics' is meaningless and futile.

You are who identify as, and are accepted as within that ethnic group. It's a question of context, social acceptance and self identification.

 

[base615]

Exactly right. Goodes and the AFL have themselves to blame for the treatment goodes gets from the crowd. No-one else. Goodes has dished it out but obviously doesn't have the mental strength to cop it when he acts like the villain.

If he really is suffering mental issues then he needs to withdraw from the spotlight altogether for his wellbeing

What has he "dished out" exactly?

 

[Docker Alyssa]

No. He stood up against racism. 1)That's a basic human right for every person the planet.

2)It's not political ...

1) What planet are you from? Every person on the planet doesn't have those rights. Everyone knows I could not stand up for my rights against racist abuse from an indigenous girl. Doesn't matter that I'm a woman and usually feminism would try to protect me from abuse. It's a white girl, can't be racist towards them.

So, no, its not everyone's basic human right.

2) I'll remember this post when he runs for office. Adam Goodes. Never political. Except when he's been asked if he wants to and he says its something he can see doing.

 

[Isosceles]

When a player goes of hurt on the stretcher, is the other teams fans clapping out of respect, or glad the opposition is now one short? For the majority, it's the former, but there will always be the moron doing it for the wrong reason. Just like the boos. Does any one really believe that many people just don't like indeginous people, or think they should just sit in their box and not get uppity, as one other poster has put it.

How about Anthony Modine, the mans a ******* tool! Anyone can see that, not just the bogan racists!

Who the hell is Anthony Modine?

 

[Macca81]

Finey disgracing himself ATM

What's he saying?

 

[BILC]

But if you lived as an indigenous person in Japan you may very well throw imaginary spears.

The indigenous cultures around the world hold all sorts of wisdom that we will be desperately wanting in a few decades time.

Perhaps if you can't show them respect for their sake. Start thinking about the future of your children.

I do show them respect, I understand what happened to the Aboriginal people.

But some yobbo who's turned up at the footy doesn't deserve imaginary spears thrown at him for what happened in the 1800's.

 

[Ischenko]

Why is everyone complaining about extreme bullying towards Goodes, but no one blinked an eye about all of the abuse Milne copped?

Seriously? Milne was booed due to on-going allegations of sexual misconduct.
Innocent until proven otherwise of course, but there was a pretty rank culture of behaviour towards women at the Saints at the time.
Goodes is trying to make a point about endemic racism in Australian society. Ridiculous to compare the two cases.

 

[southwest bomber]

Don't quote troll accounts, report them.

Seriously. It's not hard.

200+ pages of arguing, flat out racism and name-calling.

What is this thread achieving?

Not one poster has conceded their point of view/opinion since this began.

Could we close it and be done with it?

 

[romeohwho]

I said that, I appreciate the talent and skill of footballers, not just from my team. But they are the opposition. Stop the boys club and get on with beating them, not cheering them off or congratulating them on milestones or good plays.

Its a game for crying out loud, of course one can clap off an injured opponent-that is part of the deal in a gladiatorial contest-you honour the foe.

 

[00Stinger]

Seriously? Milne was booed due to on-going allegations of sexual misconduct.
Innocent until proven otherwise of course, but there was a pretty rank culture of behaviour towards women at the Saints at the time.
Goodes is trying to make a point about endemic racism in Australian society. Ridiculous to compare the two cases.

So he was constantly bullied?

 

[TheKanga]

Guys it's one thing to boo when a player Is kicking for goal or whatever to try and put them off.
But why boo every possession with such hatred like in the WCE game last week?
Just seems like a bunch of little brats going ''lalalalala I won't be told what to do'' with their fingers in their ears.
I feel nothing for Goodes in terms of spite or hatred, he's been a bloody good player and I dislike it when plays well against North but that's it.
So let's see what he's done to deserve the vitriol posted on here...

- He did an aboriginal war dance celebration after kicking a goal in indigenous week.... ok all in good fun I thought.
- He pointed out and made a stand against racism, that's pretty commendable in my mind.
- He won Australian of the Year once for his community work, ok good for him move on
- He might be perceived as a dirty player & play for frees, you could make a case of this for many players across the league and I guarantee every team has one player at least who tries to bend the rules to their and their teams advantage. (selwoods, stevie j, shuey, Thomas, etc.)

Am I forgetting something else, because this circus is embarrassing for our game and country in general.
Some ugly sorts are emerging with an A-League player saying Goodes should be deported!
Deported where? Back in time to before the English invaded Australia?

 

[GWBogan]

200+ pages of arguing, flat out racism and name-calling.

What is this thread achieving?

Not one poster has conceded their point of view/opinion since this began.

Could we close it and be done with it?

Don't forget being in this thread before the eventual lock.

 

[Zgope1]

When people try and treat the accusation as "they think I'm racist because I boo a black guy" they really are being stupid. That's as diplomatic as I can say it. No one thinks he's getting booed just because he's black.

It's his actions against racism and his cultural pride that has clearly pissed people off. Not that he is indigenous. We all know white Aussies love a good softly spoken indigenous person! It's that he cares about equality that's annoying!

And no not all booers think like that, but it's prominent in public opinion on him

 

[830SCD]

So he was constantly bullied?

Dont you remember the AFL telling people they werent allowed to boo him anymore???...

 

[Zgope1]

So how about banning booing for everyone, no booing allowed ever.

Every player has a racial background, and every time a player is booed it can be considered racist

This is stupid. Check my other post for reasons.

 

[MagpieJo]

Not when the AFL website is running with graphics like this:


View attachment 157372


Gee whiz, nothing polarising in that.

OMFG! Well there you go,
He's going out with a bang, there won't be any poor old Judd limped off, poor old Ablett limped off, (and I actually cried for both). Nope, there you go, his first political billboard.

Dunno though, those bitches in parliament will make mince meat of him.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Are you sure? Not one person booed? Brilliant. Combine all those blokes into a single person - I think he'll get booed. Judd certainly copped flack for the chicken wing and eye gouging. Pretty sure none of those blokes acted out in the media like they'd done nothing wrong though.

The most irritating thing about this entire thread is the people desperately clinging to the moral high ground feel justified in saying whatever shit they like and assuming its true because they're on the "right" side. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Goodes, and the righteousness of the thought police is doing a great job of polarizing the debate. I'm sure there are plenty of people who didn't care much about it either way who are now firmly backed into a corner.

I booed all of those players (even though Williams did Hawthorn a rock solid favour by going to Essendon!).

I'll boo Fyfe (and other Fremantle players)
I'll boo the Riewoldt's (and have been booing Nick even BEFORE broken collarbone-gate)
I'll boo Ablett
I'll boo Brent Harvey and other Kangaroo players
I'll boo the Essendon players and coaching staff because reasons!
I'll still boo Goodes (and in fact every other Sydney player as the whole team are the enemy).

you're such an imspiration to us all. do you take your kids along?

 

[hardon]

What I'm getting at is those who think it's racial based have no evidence to back up this claim.

this much is painfully evident to some. there appears to be a shortage of evidence. naked assertions abound though.

We have dark skin complexion players who have never been booed by a majority in the stadium.

you haven't been here long enough so i'll fill you in. the assertion, and nothing more than an assertion, is dat da white fella dont like no 'uppity darkies'. and heaven help these quiet darkies if they ever get vocal and call out the uncomfortable truths. you can expect boos then.

 

[Donners]

I strongly disagree. What about those that, like Goodes, have been exposed (a little bit too closely) to such racist ideology and are profoundly hurt by that child's ignorance? 'Kids say the darndest things' doesn't really wash. She's high school aged and if she was ignorant, her parents and schools should have ensured she wasn't.

Oddly enough, society is going the opposite way. Rather than educating children about attitudes of the past, they are increasingly being shielded from them. Even the likes of Huck Finn and Enid Blighton's books are banned in some places these days.

I recall reading some horribly racist stuff in Biggles books as a kid. I was able to appreciate that they were a product of their time. Kids these days won't be exposed to that sort of thing, and will never learn.

 

[Furn2]

Finey disgracing himself ATM

He's 100% right

For once.

 

[nineteen eighty]

It's quite obvious that anyone who actually is racist towards Aboriginals or any other race is fairly simple minded. The world never going to perfect, you're never going to erase racism all together. Personally, I've never been subjected to any sort of racism but I would've thought that if you were, you'd accept that everyone else knows that the opinion of this small minority of people is obviously very backwards & small-minded and leave it at that.

You're never going to totally get rid of it, in a perfect world no one would be subject to it but it just won't happen. Leave it at that, if someone calls you a name, Adam, shake your head and walk away safe in the knowledge that 99.5% of the population agrees that the person is an idiot, don't publicly pot your country as a racist nation, that's a great way to make people hate you whatever your colour.

Not quite as easy as that. I was called wog all my childhood. That term was a fighting word from my end. Playing football, if I got called wog, I would ensure that I targeted and punished that person. I was a ruckman and would be in a position where I could hurt that person. And in almost all cases, I did. They called me wog once and once only. I used to take great delight in hurting those who called me wog. The mental and physical torment gave me an enormous amount of satisfaction. If a supporter called me wog, it fired me up on the field. I would always ensure the crowd knew that every bit of good play on my behalf was due to their verbals. After my first couple of years playing in the comp I did, people just stopped with the name calling. Amazing how you smash one of two players, kick a few goals and the masses move on to an easier target.

Goodes is an easy target as the masses have picked up on the fact that he is affected by it and now give it to him in spades. And everyone from the CEO, to presidents to the players telling the masses to stop won't work. Aussie culture doesn't take to well to being told what to do.

Turning the other cheek though as you suggest...nah not for me. I prefer to confront it head on. And I'm not a fighter. Not at all. I don't need to let people off the hook though for their stupid views.

 

[MagpieJo]

This is stupid. Check my other post for reasons.

You got to admit though, it's going to get messy, will there be a 10 metre buffer?

 

[Malifice]

Regardless of whether you and I think he was guilty, during his AFL playing days he was not convicted.

You're defending a man who sexually assaulted a teenager (Milne) in defense of Goodes (who's only crime seems to have been calling out a racist teenager) here.

You realize this right?

That you can even equate the booing of Milne (indecent assault of a teenager) with the booing of Goodes (who got racially abused by a teenager) on the same page is astounding.

Would it have been okay to call Micky O'Loughlin, Peter Burgoyne and Adam Hueskes rapists week in and week out during their playing days after an alleged sexual assault incident where the players were not only charged, but money exchanged hands and police were on public record saying there was enough evidence for a conviction but rape cases are difficult to prove? Would I be racist if we called Micky O and Burgoyne rapists every week? Would I be allowed to boo those indigenous players on the basis of an allegation?

How about we meet in the middle - If Goodes gets accused of rape of a teenager, feel free to Boo the shit out of him. Untill then, stop.