You can't prove it but you still kinda know its true NBA thread...

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James Harden is a team first kinda guy.
 
Bulls wouldn't have won 8 straight if MJ hadn't of retired the first time.

The Bulls would have wiped the floor with any of the 80s Lakers/Celtics teams.

Grant Hill would be Top 10 GOAT if not for injuries.

Orlando with Shaq and Penny are the best team not to win a championship.

Steph would have been just as good if he played in the 80s/90s.

Andrew Gaze would have been a solid NBA player if he had gone to the NBA in his mid 20s.

Perth Wildcats starting 5 in the early 90s of Fisher, Vlahov, Crawford, Grace and whoever is the best starting 5 ever in the NBL.
 
Bulls wouldn't have won 8 straight if MJ hadn't of retired the first time.

The Bulls would have wiped the floor with any of the 80s Lakers/Celtics teams.

Grant Hill would be Top 10 GOAT if not for injuries.

Orlando with Shaq and Penny are the best team not to win a championship.

Steph would have been just as good if he played in the 80s/90s.

Andrew Gaze would have been a solid NBA player if he had gone to the NBA in his mid 20s.

Perth Wildcats starting 5 in the early 90s of Fisher, Vlahov, Crawford, Grace and whoever is the best starting 5 ever in the NBL.
*Anthony Stewart... (although I agree, it probably couldve been anybody... we were definately spoiled having the other 4 guys).

Not sure I agree with the top 2.
Its not like the Rockets teams of 93-95 were any better than the teams the Bulls had to beat in their other finals. What would've held them back would've been any rift between MJ/Pip/Phil without that break (see Kobe-Shaq) and that they probably wouldn't have improved their depth the way they did after Micheal took 2 years off - there's no doubting they had a much better/deeper supporting cast for the 2nd run.

I think either of the Bulls teams would've competed, but definitely not wiped the floor, with a Magic/Kareem/Worthy or Bird/Parish/McHale teams in their primes. That would've been some great battles.
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As for me:

There is no denying that the Spurs tanked in 96-97, and gave up on the season when they handed the reigns over to 'Nique for a swansong. But, were somewhat justified in doing so given all the injuries, and playing the hand that was dealt was probably enough to appease the basketball Gods - and I would not have it any other way.

For a "great" team, the Spurs have had too many un-clutch moments, and only have themselves to blame for never repeating.

The NBA has a serious problem with "home court" and "star player" reffing, but know that doing something about it would be bad for business. And the Donaghy scandal went a lot deeper than anyone would ever care to admit or expose.

The careers of KG and Dirk are going to be grossly underrated by history because they didn't get more rings. Both deserve to be in the conversation about greatest PF's ever.
 
*Anthony Stewart... (although I agree, it probably couldve been anybody... we were definately spoiled having the other 4 guys).

Not sure I agree with the top 2.
Its not like the Rockets teams of 93-95 were any better than the teams the Bulls had to beat in their other finals. What would've held them back would've been any rift between MJ/Pip/Phil without that break (see Kobe-Shaq) and that they probably wouldn't have improved their depth the way they did after Micheal took 2 years off - there's no doubting they had a much better/deeper supporting cast for the 2nd run.

I think either of the Bulls teams would've competed, but definitely not wiped the floor, with a Magic/Kareem/Worthy or Bird/Parish/McHale teams in their primes. That would've been some great battles.
---

As for me:

There is no denying that the Spurs tanked in 96-97, and gave up on the season when they handed the reigns over to 'Nique for a swansong. But, were somewhat justified in doing so given all the injuries, and playing the hand that was dealt was probably enough to appease the basketball Gods - and I would not have it any other way.

For a "great" team, the Spurs have had too many un-clutch moments, and only have themselves to blame for never repeating.

The NBA has a serious problem with "home court" and "star player" reffing, but know that doing something about it would be bad for business. And the Donaghy scandal went a lot deeper than anyone would ever care to admit or expose.

The careers of KG and Dirk are going to be grossly underrated by history because they didn't get more rings. Both deserve to be in the conversation about greatest PF's ever.

It's been discussed a few times, but my argument is that about the Bulls 8 peat...
1) Mentally keeping it up for 8 years is very very difficult. I'm not necessarily saying that they would lose to Houston. They may have won the first 6 before losing one.
2) MJ being away allowed the Bulls management to turn over the roster, which helped them in the last 3. i.e if MJ stays Grant probably stays and they don't get Rodman.
3) Injuries - Bulls 6 championship run didn't have any major injuries
 

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disappointed not about rudy gay

oh c'mon - for his faults he's still a very good basketballer. He's not worth the $19m salary that he's on, but he's still one of the better SF's in the league, and would really be worth around 10-15/yr and would be a starter or at worst a top-8 rotation guy on pretty much any team.
 
oh c'mon - for his faults he's still a very good basketballer. He's not worth the $19m salary that he's on, but he's still one of the better SF's in the league, and would really be worth around 10-15/yr and would be a starter or at worst a top-8 rotation guy on pretty much any team.
u don't need to tell me :D
 
Len Bias would've been a top 15 all time talent if not for his tragic death. Celtics also wouldn't have become a basket case in the 90s as a result.

Wilt Chamberlain would've dominated in any era.

The mid 2000s produced some of the worst basketball seen, and I think Shaq and Kobe were the only saving grace for the league until the run and gun Suns started to be relevant.
 
The mid 2000s produced some of the worst basketball seen, and I think Shaq and Kobe were the only saving grace for the league until the run and gun Suns started to be relevant.

Am i being paranoid if I equate that to being along the lines of the "Spurs are boring" (were) argument?

Or are you actually complaining about the epidemic of Iso/Hero-ball of the post-Jordan era that teams like the Spurs and Pistons countered so well?

I will agree though that the "run & gun" suns were great to watch, but they were much better defensively than people give them credit for. They were unlucky never to get over the line (but i think thats more up to who they came up against than any actual problems with their style) and D'antoni couldve been viewed differently if they did win a title.
 
The mid 2000s produced some of the worst basketball seen, and I think Shaq and Kobe were the only saving grace for the league until the run and gun Suns started to be relevant.

The Lakers didn't save anything, it was the Kings, Mavs and briefly the Bucks who gave the league it's best aesthetic on-court product between 1995 & 2005.

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The western conference had a ton of perennially strong teams during those years - Spurs, Blazers & Wolves in addition to the Kings and Mavs.
 

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