Corona virus, Port and the AFL. Part 2.

[Pt Augusta Power]

Do you think the tiser will go as hard at SA Health for the name of the bureaucrat who approved the opening of borders with NSW as they did for the Port families?

Nah- that name from SA health was essential to dig up, the bungle of the port players families which posed ZERO risk to the health of South Australians. Meanwhile - open the boarders in time for the Adelaide Oval hotel to open.
But

boaky’s Mum should be out of quarantine soon. chances are the shitvertiser will focus on that.
Meanwhile SA health are sending messages asking for anyone from NSW to self isolate if they’ve visited at risk areas. You know the people we probably cannot trace?

 

[jakey]

Don't worry, the under 35's are gonna get jobs thanks to the budget and they can start to pay off the what 250mil debt per COVID death. Some real economic wonder fu**s in this thread.

I reckon the correct metric would be lives saved per unit of debt.

Oh and the a there's that Deloitte research showing the nations who have most actively managed covid and achieved lowest deaths are also those with the best economic performance this year.

But yeah 'economic wonder****s'.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

*NSFW language warning

 

[Interstater]

*NSFW language warning

Can we just get Albanese to play this as his budget reply?

 

[raptalia]

Things are looking bad in Europe. The UK is racking up close to 20,000 infections per day. Johnson must be close to another nation wide lock down to check the spread.

The lower death rate in the UK compared to the infection rates is interesting. It has been argued that the at risk portion of the population, namely the over 60's, are staying at home and those infected are mainly younger people who stand a better chance fighting off the infection. On top of that the UK has probably ramped up it's procedures in Aged Care Facilities and other at risk locations such as meat processing plants.

I hate to sound pessimistic but the world is 10 months into this pandemic and it is really no better off.

The link below is a good site for detailed information re COVID-19.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 128,239,149 Cases and 2,804,346 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

The world figures are useful in finding some possible travel bubble options for Australia. It looks like Australia, New Zealand, the South Pacific and a couple of Scandinavian countries may be able to form a travel bubble sometime in the future but there are not many other options. The problem with the Scandinavian option is stopping people from crossing into Europe then coming back to Australia.

I guess we need to get all the Australian State borders open before we worry about international borders?

 

[sobrave]

Things are looking bad in Europe. The UK is racking up close to 20,000 infections per day. Johnson must be close to another nation wide lock down to check the spread.

The lower death rate in the UK compared to the infection rates is interesting. It has been argued that the at risk portion of the population, namely the over 60's, are staying at home and those infected are mainly younger people who stand a better chance fighting off the infection. On top of that the UK has probably ramped up it's procedures in Aged Care Facilities and other at risk locations such as meat processing plants.

I hate to sound pessimistic but the world is 10 months into this pandemic and it is really no better off.

The link below is a good site for detailed information re COVID-19.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 128,239,149 Cases and 2,804,346 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

The world figures are useful in finding some possible travel bubble options for Australia. It looks like Australia, New Zealand, the South Pacific and a couple of Scandinavian countries may be able to form a travel bubble sometime in the future but there are not many other options. The problem with the Scandinavian option is stopping people from crossing into Europe then coming back to Australia.

I guess we need to get all the Australian State borders open before we worry about international borders?

I dunno if the death rate is purely related to age demographics or the total infection numbers were just way underreported earlier on.

There was a quote from a WHO guy earlier in this thread saying 10% of the globe has been infected.

If that was vaguely accurate it would make sense why the death rate in Europe was so high earlier and so much lower now. If they were only identifying 1 in 10 cases or so, whereas now they're identifying most infections...

Age definitely comes into it as well though, but there's gotta be a lot of complexities when it comes to death rates.

 

[sobrave]

*NSFW language warning

Canavan said the other day cutting jobkeeper is about getting people "off the couch" back into jobs

Why do people keep voting for these campaigners?

The implication that everyone's just had a blast sitting on the couch during a pandemic when the jobs have completely disappeared, and they can just waltz back into employment despite the fact there aren't enough jobs to get... What a complete useless nasty campaigner. Fecking Queensland.

 

[chiwigi]

COVID-19 Is Now the Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.

It kills more people than the flu, contrary to Trump’s claims, and also surpasses stroke, Alzheimer’s and diabetes

www.scientificamerican.com

If you could eradicate cancer or heart disease with a temporary lockdown, you would.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

The UK government has changed the way deaths are reported. Now a death must occur within 28 days of a positive test to be counted as a covid death. The UK had 77 reported deaths yesterday which is the highest they have recorded in the second wave. It was reported that icu admissions in the North of the UK will exceed the peak of the first wave in 22 days. The number of cases in the UK was less than double victorias cases about 6 weeks ago. Their government ran a campaign to get people back to work and subsidised eating in restaurants. Unfortunately their numbers are going to get a lot worse before they get better. In victoria its been pretty obvious there is a lag between measures and an impact on the numbers. I don't think having a rule of 6 and closing pubs at 10pm will have had a significant impact on the number of covid cases.

 

[raptalia]

The UK government has changed the way deaths are reported. Now a death must occur within 28 days of a positive test to be counted as a covid death. The UK had 77 reported deaths yesterday which is the highest they have recorded in the second wave. It was reported that icu admissions in the North of the UK will exceed the peak of the first wave in 22 days. The number of cases in the UK was less than double victorias cases about 6 weeks ago. Their government ran a campaign to get people back to work and subsidised eating in restaurants. Unfortunately their numbers are going to get a lot worse before they get better. In victoria its been pretty obvious there is a lag between measures and an impact on the numbers. I don't think having a rule of 6 and closing pubs at 10pm will have had a significant impact on the number of covid cases.

Yes, the UK Government's reaction to and management of the COVID epidemic has been among the worst in the world. Apart from being too slow to react and being under prepared they did not close borders as Australia did. The UK is an island nation and they could have isolated themselves and adopted a more vigorous testing programme as Australia did. They didn't and when they did finally lock down they opened up too quickly and are paying the price.

 

[chiwigi]

Yes, the UK Government's reaction to and management of the COVID epidemic has been among the worst in the world. Apart from being too slow to react and being under prepared they did not close borders as Australia did. The UK is an island nation and they could have isolated themselves and adopted a more vigorous testing programme as Australia did. They didn't and when they did finally lock down they opened up too quickly and are paying the price.

They also sold the track and trace system to a private bidder (cost hundreds of millions for taxpayers) who then used a cheap arse excel based system that lost thousands of cases.
**** the Tories!

 

[rumoursofwinter]

They also sold the track and trace system to a private bidder (cost hundreds of millions for taxpayers) who then used a cheap arse excel based system that lost thousands of cases.
fu** the Tories!

It was estimated they didn't track 50k close contacts of positive cases because of the excel files being too large. I think they may now be trying to trace those contacts a couple of weeks later?

 

[chiwigi]

It was estimated they didn't track 50k close contacts of positive cases because of the excel files being too large. I think they may now be trying to trace those contacts a couple of weeks later?

That they used excel and charged hundreds of millions should be enough to bring down a corrupt government in normal times.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The world figures are useful in finding some possible travel bubble options for Australia. It looks like Australia, New Zealand, the South Pacific and a couple of Scandinavian countries may be able to form a travel bubble sometime in the future but there are not many other options. The problem with the Scandinavian option is stopping people from crossing into Europe then coming back to Australia.

I guess we need to get all the Australian State borders open before we worry about international borders?

The other big concern with Scandinavia is that even if say Denmark was to be covid-free, you would still need people to transit through other big centres to enable travel.

I think it's more likely that our first bubble beyond the ANZ one will be with an Asian country, possibly Taiwan.

 

[Duck Farmer]

COVID-19 Is Now the Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.

It kills more people than the flu, contrary to Trump’s claims, and also surpasses stroke, Alzheimer’s and diabetes

www.scientificamerican.com

If you could eradicate cancer or heart disease with a temporary lockdown, you would.

We could eliminate road deaths by limiting vehicle speed to walking pace. For many things in life society has to make the trade off of risk vs reward.

 

[chiwigi]

We could eliminate road deaths by limiting vehicle speed to walking pace. For many things in life society has to make the trade off of risk vs reward.

We literally do that with speed limits and drink drive rules etc.
What a shit analogy if you are trying to suggest lockdowns are overkill.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

That they used excel and charged hundreds of millions should be enough to bring down a corrupt government in normal times.

If proven corrupt contracting can be shown to directly lead to deaths, then i would hope that those responsible for the corrupt contract would be charged with industrial manslaughter.

 

[chiwigi]

If proven corrupt contracting can be shown to directly lead to deaths, then i would hope that those responsible for the corrupt contract would be charged with industrial manslaughter.

They won’t though, because the level of bootlickery in the world is at epidemic proportions.

 

[Interstater]

People have to stop depending on government direction to protect them.
If you are over 60 or have other risk factors then decide for yourself whether you need to isolate.

South Australia is now open to NSW which has again seen a rise in community transmission.
Our state has become a guinea pig for this experiment.
Boundaries are being pushed further in an attempt to balance health and commercial risks.

Our federal government has just spent nearly 1 trillion dollars on getting people back to work.
You can't expect a government to manage people adequately on a case by case basis.

Weigh up the risks and make decisions based on your individual situation.

 

[raptalia]

The other big concern with Scandinavia is that even if say Denmark was to be covid-free, you would still need people to transit through other big centres to enable travel.

I think it's more likely that our first bubble beyond the ANZ one will be with an Asian country, possibly Taiwan.

Yes, there are some real concerns with international transit points. You can never guarantee where people have been. International travel is not going to be possible for some time. I guess we have to get all those still overseas back home before we think about letting more people fly out. I cannot see Australia opening up to places like the UK, USA, Italy or India until they have the COVID situation under control and that is going to take some time.

The travel industry is pretty well gutted and even with a vaccine it may be 2022 before international travel resumes. The Flight Centre outlet in my local shopping centre has closed and the shop has been stripped of all fittings. There are probably many more travel agents through out Australia who have closed shop. It is pretty sad and you have to feel for those who have lost jobs.

 

[davesnothere]

People have to stop depending on government direction to protect them.
If you are over 60 or have other risk factors then decide for yourself whether you need to isolate.

South Australia is now open to NSW which has again seen a rise in community transmission.
Our state has become a guinea pig for this experiment.
Boundaries are being pushed further in an attempt to balance health and commercial risks.

Our federal government has just spent nearly 1 trillion dollars on getting people back to work.
You can't expect a government to manage people adequately on a case by case basis.

Weigh up the risks and make decisions based on your individual situation.

Decide for yourself if you need to isolate being if you don’t want to die stay home bad luck?
You have underlying health issues and still need to work to make a living bad luck?

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Yes, there are some real concerns with international transit points. You can never guarantee where people have been. International travel is not going to be possible for some time. I guess we have to get all those still overseas back home before we think about letting more people fly out. I cannot see Australia opening up to places like the UK, USA, Italy or India until they have the COVID situation under control and that is going to take some time.

The travel industry is pretty well gutted and even with a vaccine it may be 2022 before international travel resumes. The Flight Centre outlet in my local shopping centre has closed and the shop has been stripped of all fittings. There are probably many more travel agents through out Australia who have closed shop. It is pretty sad and you have to feel for those who have lost jobs.

Yep I would say that I think the Aus-NZ bubble will be hugely beneficial once it's available. Will it save all the jobs? No, but it will definitely help keep the industry and careers on the life support they need.

We need to allow the rich to start jumping the Tasman once it's possible to do so. A lot of people who would normally go to Asia, Europe or the USA will instead head to Queenstown or the Gold Coast and should give these places a boost.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Also barring a vaccine I sadly can't see anything happening with India and anybody else for a very long time. While their situation is thankfully starting to turn they are still recording ~80k new confirmed cases a day.

 

[Duck Farmer]

We literally do that with speed limits and drink drive rules etc.
What a sh*t analogy if you are trying to suggest lockdowns are overkill.

Everything has an opportunity cost. In Australia, we are prepared to set our road laws at a point which accepts around 1,200 road deaths p.a. We could reduce this by lowering speed limits but as a society we appear to be happy to trade off those deaths for the benefit of travel time.

Regarding COVID, this is not the first nor last time a new virus has crossed from animals to humans. In the last 20 years we've also had SARS, MERS, Swine flu, Bird flu, Ebola etc. That's one every 4-5 years. You can be certain we will continue to see them a couple of times a decade into the future. The world needs a better way of managing going forward than repeated lockdowns.

The answer on whether the current lockdown is overkill or not can only be answered by considering the opportunity cost. Would the political, social, and economic capital that has been spent on the COVID lockdown have been better spent on banning smoking (cancer, heart disease, and stroke are the greatest killers and all directly linked to smoking, not to mention the cost and strain it puts on the health system) or tackling climate change? Imo, climate change is a bigger existential threat to humanity than COVID-19 but the hundreds of billions we are spending to offset the impacts of the COVID lockdown won't be there to be spent on transitioning the country to renewables and compensating those that will lose their jobs in fossil fuel industries. Unfortunately, politicians are not incentivised to do much about it because it will be someone else's problem down the track while COVID will bite them on the arse at the next election.

Btw, I'm not trying to say to do nothing on COVID. Protecting the vulnerable such as people in nursing homes, improving hygiene, wearing face masks, and observing reasonable social distancing all seem to be appropriate responses that stop short of locking people and businesses down.

 

[HinkleysHeroes]

Decide for yourself if you need to isolate being if you don’t want to die stay home bad luck?
You have underlying health issues and still need to work to make a living bad luck?

Closely resembles the American model.