Past #23: Kieran Harper - delisted by the club (29/10) - will miss '16 VAFA season, surgery on ankle

[Flawed Genius]

Ask Phil Davis about it.

Rory Laird, too.

 

[KillaKanga]

Ask Phil Davis about it.

Rory Laird, too.

What effect? They can't remember any such thing.

 

[Only Forwards]

What effect? They can't remember any such thing.

you know why?

cause

*Edit - fixed the gif

 

[KillaKanga]

you know why?

cause

Even after looking at the gifs they still can't remember them

 

[Dan]

He's not Tony Lockett

Neither is Lindsay Thomas.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Neither is Lindsay Thomas.

Would love it if Harps could get the ball as much as Lindsay.

 

[Dan]

Would love it if Harps could get the ball as much as Lindsay.

Averaging 11 touches isn't exactly big numbers.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Averaging 11 touches isn't exactly big numbers.

It's adequate compared to Harper's career average of 9 touches a game. You're right though that unless Harper can learn to play on the HFF his only way of getting into the team is to push Lindsay out.

 

[Black Diamond]

Point is while Thomas doesn't play much in the midfield, he is capable of rotating through there.

If you aren't a KPP you pretty much have to be able to run through the midfield in the modern game. There is no room for a stay at home forward pocket.

 

[Hannem]

It's adequate compared to Harper's career average of 9 touches a game. You're right though that unless Harper can learn to play on the HFF his only way of getting into the team is to push Lindsay out of a moving car.

EFA

 

[Jimmy's Hot Dogs]

God I want a nutribullet.

Transforms ordinary foods into super foods!

 

[Wells Now Williams Fan]

I knew I would ruffle a few feathers here saying it.

The guy needs to extract the digit and work harder, the harder you work on the ground the more you'll get the ball.

The excuses that get flown around this forum for this bloke are quite unbelievable. I dont think I heard more excuses for a player in my life.

*sigh*, it's not whether you're right or not. You probably are. My vibe from the thread is that it's pretty much consensus that he's unlikely to escape delisting either this year or next. It's rejoicing in a player's failure because you then get to say you were right.

When people write the crap above (bolded) about someones comment on here it annoys the s**t out of me.

RobZombie Are you for real?? All you have done is taken a cheapshot at his comment. Show us where he as a fellow North supporter
would be "Rejoicing" if Harps didn't make it??

Every frikken person that takes the time to post on here wants Harps playing seniors and tearing it up and you are 100% WRONG anyone
"Rejoycing" if he doesn't !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tas]

I agree with you Tas in your last paragraph. Its true he was at his best when the team was spreading quickly from stoppages and running into open space. But like you said we had to change our gameplan as being involved in shootouts wasn't going to win us a premeirship.

I think the problem with the 2012 gameplan was that everyone ran forward and spread to create numerous options, Hawthorn still spread aggressively but they don't turn the ball over that often in transition through the midfield and once they get some numbers around the ball and have the overlap the other midfielders are quick to move back into press or zone position in case the forward target doesn't take possession.

Even this year we get caught out of position constantly, how often are out defenders left stranded one out in the defensive 50, how often do we have someone like Wright left to go against a KPP because a KPD was suckered out of his zone position? For a defensive focus we made numerous amateur hour mistakes constantly throughout the season and repeated the same mistakes over and over.

When you look at the Hawks it is players like Rioli, Hill and Smith who have license to spread aggressively, the rest of the midfield either support the spread or if not used end up setting up defensively. We have the likes of Wells, Harvey and had Harper when he was playing in 2012, the problem was the rest of the midfield also ran forward or started just getting sucked forward with the momentum or stand around with hands on hips rather than setup defensively.

Every team needs good quality outside who use the ball well and who are extremely dangerous, we have just always been very poor in terms of midfield discipline, we have coached poorly in that regard. How often are players like Wells or Harvey involved in a play and other players of vastly inferior skill level peel off and look for an uncontested short range hand ball receive rather than them protecting space or just working hard to feed the talented guys the ball? Quite often we are stuck with the wrong people getting the ball in space and end up kicking poorly inside the forward 50.

Judd said one of the hardest things for him when he went to Carlton was not having the protection that the lesser lights gave him at WCE, the mids who sacrificed their ball getting ability to make sure Judd got the ball and had space to take the game on, the outside need the help of the team around them.

Our transition problems were largely a result of too many players who shouldn't be running into space doing so. Even this year, our inside 50 spread was horrendous. Our top 10 most effective Inside 50 players were:
Brown 6 I50s, 6 goal assists, 100% efficiency
Thomas 53 I50s, 23 assists, 43.40% efficiency
Black 51 I50s, 17 assists, 33.33% efficiency
Wells 30 I50s, 9 assists, 30% efficiency
Turner 17 I50s, 5 assists, 29.41% efficiency
Petrie 62 I50s, 18 assists, 29.03% efficiency
Adams 36 I50s, 9 assists, 25% efficiency
Bastinac 58 I50s, 14 assists, 24.14% efficiency
Goldstein 36 I50s, 8 assists, 22.22% efficiency
Harvey 96 I50s, 18 assists, 18.75% efficiency

And it gets a lot worse from there, our inside mids are quite poor in terms of efficiency and our defenders are horrendous and how often do you see defenders launch inside 50s, all these s**t bombs do nothing and usually come rebounding out faster than it came in.

These numbers make it plainly obvious that the kind of players who are good at creating goals tend to be the really skilled players or the players who play around the forward 50 who can deliver short range passes to a player in a good position.

When Harper was playing he was good at finishing but he was also very good at hitting a target in a good position, because of his run and carry most of his inside 50s came from the attacking side of the midfield, but he also had the foot skills to hit long passes.

Turner ha 17 inside 50s resulting in 5 goals, Ziebell 57 resulting in 7, Atley 60 resulting in 7, Swallow 70 resulting in 8, Gibson 70 resulting in 7, Greenwood 92 resulting in 6, Thompson 34 resulting in 3, Wright 32 resulting in 2, Firrito 33 resulting in 1.

We need to change the way we play, we need to play a lot smarter getting the ball in the hands in the good users who are spreading into space so they can get some kicks inside 50 under less pressure and have the tools to execute. We need outside that will do damage by foot. We don't need everyone to be a plodder or ultra defensive. Even Pagan used Shane Clayton, a team of clones wont work, neither will a team of plodders.

 

[Firebat]

So basically we need Mitch Robinson?

 

[Saintly31]

Our transition problems were largely a result of too many players who shouldn't be running into space doing so. Even this year, our inside 50 spread was horrendous. Our top 10 most effective Inside 50 players were:
Brown 6 I50s, 6 goal assists, 100% efficiency
Thomas 53 I50s, 23 assists, 43.40% efficiency
Black 51 I50s, 17 assists, 33.33% efficiency
Wells 30 I50s, 9 assists, 30% efficiency
Turner 17 I50s, 5 assists, 29.41% efficiency
Petrie 62 I50s, 18 assists, 29.03% efficiency
Adams 36 I50s, 9 assists, 25% efficiency
Bastinac 58 I50s, 14 assists, 24.14% efficiency
Goldstein 36 I50s, 8 assists, 22.22% efficiency
Harvey 96 I50s, 18 assists, 18.75% efficiency

And it gets a lot worse from there, our inside mids are quite poor in terms of efficiency and our defenders are horrendous and how often do you see defenders launch inside 50s, all these s**t bombs do nothing and usually come rebounding out faster than it came in.

I find these stats hard to believe (not saying they are wrong)

Boomer only hits a target inside 50 1 out of every 5 times?

I would have thought he was our best, or one of, in terms of hitting targets.

 

[Jasemon]

Has been one of my favourite players the last few players. Have constantly kept one eye on his form, hoping that he can turn around his fortunes and get back to the player we all thought and hoped he could be. Loss of confidence and then injuries have set him back to the precipice. Hoping against all hopes that the club gives him one more chance next year. If he is dropped to the rookie list well so be it, he still has one more year, one more chance to fight for his life and become the player we all want him to be. Go Kieran!!!!! You've got a lot of people wanting you to succeed.

 

[KillaKanga]

I find these stats hard to believe (not saying they are wrong)

Boomer only hits a target inside 50 1 out of every 5 times?

I would have thought he was our best, or one of, in terms of hitting targets.

It isn't his fault they only convert it 1/5 of the time. He's find a target a lot closer to 50% of the time I'd think.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

When people write the crap above (bolded) about someones comment on here it annoys the s**t out of me.

RobZombie Are you for real?? All you have done is taken a cheapshot at his comment. Show us where he as a fellow North supporter
would be "Rejoicing" if Harps didn't make it??

Every frikken person that takes the time to post on here wants Harps playing seniors and tearing it up and you are 100% WRONG anyone
"Rejoycing" if he doesn't !!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, you missed the earlier posts. He had started to back off by the one that RobZombie responded to. Rob was right.

 

[King Corey]

I find these stats hard to believe (not saying they are wrong)

Boomer only hits a target inside 50 1 out of every 5 times?

I would have thought he was our best, or one of, in terms of hitting targets.

What did Denis say about 'arguing' (realise you weren't) with certain types of people?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Dreamt last night that I was Harper's personal coach and managed to turn him into a 25+ possession midfielder in one preseason.

Hire me.

 

[King Corey]

Dreamt last night that I was Harper's personal coach and managed to turn him into a 25+ possession midfielder in one preseason.

Hire me.

The only way you'll achieve that is by changing Sam Gibson's name by deed poll.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

When people write the crap above (bolded) about someones comment on here it annoys the s**t out of me.

RobZombie Are you for real?? All you have done is taken a cheapshot at his comment. Show us where he as a fellow North supporter
would be "Rejoicing" if Harps didn't make it??

Every frikken person that takes the time to post on here wants Harps playing seniors and tearing it up and you are 100% WRONG anyone
"Rejoycing" if he doesn't !!!!!!!!!!!

I have never been happy about any of our players underperforming, all I've ever wanted is all our players to succeed but sadly thats never going to happen.

I think the problem with the 2012 gameplan was that everyone ran forward and spread to create numerous options, Hawthorn still spread aggressively but they don't turn the ball over that often in transition through the midfield and once they get some numbers around the ball and have the overlap the other midfielders are quick to move back into press or zone position in case the forward target doesn't take possession.

Even this year we get caught out of position constantly, how often are out defenders left stranded one out in the defensive 50, how often do we have someone like Wright left to go against a KPP because a KPD was suckered out of his zone position? For a defensive focus we made numerous amateur hour mistakes constantly throughout the season and repeated the same mistakes over and over.

When you look at the Hawks it is players like Rioli, Hill and Smith who have license to spread aggressively, the rest of the midfield either support the spread or if not used end up setting up defensively. We have the likes of Wells, Harvey and had Harper when he was playing in 2012, the problem was the rest of the midfield also ran forward or started just getting sucked forward with the momentum or stand around with hands on hips rather than setup defensively.

Every team needs good quality outside who use the ball well and who are extremely dangerous, we have just always been very poor in terms of midfield discipline, we have coached poorly in that regard. How often are players like Wells or Harvey involved in a play and other players of vastly inferior skill level peel off and look for an uncontested short range hand ball receive rather than them protecting space or just working hard to feed the talented guys the ball? Quite often we are stuck with the wrong people getting the ball in space and end up kicking poorly inside the forward 50.

Judd said one of the hardest things for him when he went to Carlton was not having the protection that the lesser lights gave him at WCE, the mids who sacrificed their ball getting ability to make sure Judd got the ball and had space to take the game on, the outside need the help of the team around them.

Our transition problems were largely a result of too many players who shouldn't be running into space doing so. Even this year, our inside 50 spread was horrendous. Our top 10 most effective Inside 50 players were:
Brown 6 I50s, 6 goal assists, 100% efficiency
Thomas 53 I50s, 23 assists, 43.40% efficiency
Black 51 I50s, 17 assists, 33.33% efficiency
Wells 30 I50s, 9 assists, 30% efficiency
Turner 17 I50s, 5 assists, 29.41% efficiency
Petrie 62 I50s, 18 assists, 29.03% efficiency
Adams 36 I50s, 9 assists, 25% efficiency
Bastinac 58 I50s, 14 assists, 24.14% efficiency
Goldstein 36 I50s, 8 assists, 22.22% efficiency
Harvey 96 I50s, 18 assists, 18.75% efficiency

And it gets a lot worse from there, our inside mids are quite poor in terms of efficiency and our defenders are horrendous and how often do you see defenders launch inside 50s, all these s**t bombs do nothing and usually come rebounding out faster than it came in.

These numbers make it plainly obvious that the kind of players who are good at creating goals tend to be the really skilled players or the players who play around the forward 50 who can deliver short range passes to a player in a good position.

When Harper was playing he was good at finishing but he was also very good at hitting a target in a good position, because of his run and carry most of his inside 50s came from the attacking side of the midfield, but he also had the foot skills to hit long passes.

Turner ha 17 inside 50s resulting in 5 goals, Ziebell 57 resulting in 7, Atley 60 resulting in 7, Swallow 70 resulting in 8, Gibson 70 resulting in 7, Greenwood 92 resulting in 6, Thompson 34 resulting in 3, Wright 32 resulting in 2, Firrito 33 resulting in 1.

We need to change the way we play, we need to play a lot smarter getting the ball in the hands in the good users who are spreading into space so they can get some kicks inside 50 under less pressure and have the tools to execute. We need outside that will do damage by foot. We don't need everyone to be a plodder or ultra defensive. Even Pagan used Shane Clayton, a team of clones wont work, neither will a team of plodders.

Tas these are very valid points and you should send this stuff to the club. You'd think they'd be aware of it but they might not be.

Dude, you missed the earlier posts. He had started to back off by the one that RobZombie responded to. Rob was right.

Who's backing off. I'm barely on here and when I am i'll be on here for a few weeks straight then you wont see me for a couple of weeks. Fair dinkum some of you guys must be on ice or something, seriously.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Who's ******* rejoicing? Sorry but I like to tell it how it is. The bloke has talent albeit not as much talent as some might say here. There would be 100,000 kids in this country that would love to be in his position. There is no excuse for not putting in effort and chasing the man/footy. If your out on the ground your fit enough to chase and put pressure on, which he hasnt done for 2 years. I go to the Werribee games, I see what he does on the ground.

I would love for him to prove me wrong but sadly I think his days are done. Ffs if you need a psychologist to get your head right I think your at the point of your career being done.

I want all of our players to succeed but if you think they all will well your just living in fairyland. You can only go on what results have been delivered and whats been delivered in the past 2 years by Harps is absolute tripe. He's not even worthy of playing in the VFL seniors atm and will be lucky to be on the list going into next year.

I agree with you Tas in your last paragraph. Its true he was at his best when the team was spreading quickly from stoppages and running into open space. But like you said we had to change our gameplan as being involved in shootouts wasn't going to win us a premeirship.

I will never be ashamed of speaking my mind and i'm not alone in what I think. I've been wrong before and Hansen is proof of that. All I ever wanted the club to do was play guys to their strengths and clearly Hansen playing as a loose defender where he can utilize his marking is his best position. Brad Scott is another who I had serious doubts about, however he has clearly change his thinking this year. He's played guys who were in form in the 2nd half of the year and gave a rocket to the team when they needed one. We all seen how much more consistent the team was in its performances the 2nd half of the year.

Anyway going a bit of topic but those are my thoughts.

Dude, you missed the earlier posts. He had started to back off by the one that RobZombie responded to. Rob was right.

All this is backing off is it lol.

You belong at the *.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I have never been happy about any of our players underperforming, all I've ever wanted is all our players to succeed but sadly thats never going to happen.



Tas these are very valid points and you should send this stuff to the club. You'd think they'd be aware of it but they might not be.



Who's backing off. I'm barely on here and when I am i'll be on here for a few weeks straight then you wont see me for a couple of weeks. Fair dinkum some of you guys must be on ice or something, seriously.

The bolded bit is backing off. Previously you were far more critical and offensive in your assessment of Harps. Then you said something like "hope he proves me wrong - I win either way". I'm with Rob in not seeing either scenario as a win.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

All this is backing off is it lol.

You belong at the *.

I note you still didn't quote the earlier post that was the one interpreted as rejoicing.

Bit sensitive about "backing off", dude? Need to maintain the "I'm a hard man who tells it as it is" (on the internet) persona? LOL.