Who will abide by the tribunal decision

[Cronos]

Have you read the OP?

Yes I have. My answer to that is that if they explain that there were no prohibited substances used, and therefore the players are innocent, I will agree. If they say that there is insufficient evidence, then I'll call the whole club filthy drug cheats.

Your rants on unfair punishment is irrelevant to the OP though.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Yes I have. My answer to that is that if they explain that there were no prohibited substances used, and therefore the players are innocent, I will agree. If they say that there is insufficient evidence, then I'll call the whole club filthy drug cheats.

Your rants on unfair punishment is irrelevant to the OP though.

My rather patient responses to all the foam being spat at me, can basically be summed up by my much earlier post:

If it makes anyone feel any better, there are also circumstances where thinking that Essendon "are totally innocent" if the tribunal finds in their favour, as proposed in the OP, would be unreasonable. E.g., the players, coaches, etc, conspired together to dope the team, but for some silly reason the evidence for this was ruled inadmissible.

So if the OP's question is, will I ignore any knowledge I may have regarding the circumstances that led to the tribunal's decision, and just convince myself that what happened was at the extreme end to whatever is aligned to their decision when they make it. Then my answer is no.

How is this irrelevant?

 

[Mattrox]

I asked before, he chose to ignore it. He's just trolling...... from a very low base.

He IS the straw man.

 

[Cronos]

My rather patient responses to all the foam being spat at me, can basically be summed up by my much earlier post:

How is this irrelevant?

You've been whining for pages that people would be unfairly punished.

Punishment according to the agreed rules is not unfair in any way. Any use, or attempted use of a prohibited substance makes a player a drug cheat, regardless of how it got there. If they didn't even do the minimum required of them to ensure they were not administered prohibited substances, that doesn't make them "not a drug cheat".

 

[FuManchu]

Have you read the OP?

As long as all players in similar circumstances are punished in the same manner, then it's fair.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

You've been whining for pages that people would be unfairly punished.

That's all in your muddled head I'm afraid. I've made no such claims at all. Presenting a possibility where a strict application of the rules would cause players to be unfairly punished is not claiming that they will be. But if they are, and it is clear that were drugged against their will, for example, then I will take this into consideration in my view of the tribunal's decision. Just like I will if the players are let off, and its clear they deliberately doped.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

As long as all players in similar circumstances are punished in the same manner, then it's fair.

So as long as all women living under Sharia law are executed for being raped, then executing women living under Sharia law who are raped is fair? I suppose you have a point, but I think we are talking about different uses of the word fair.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

I asked before, he chose to ignore it. He's just trolling...... from a very low base.

I'm contemplating that such evidence might be revealed in the tribunal hearing (just like evidence they deliberately doped might be revealed). I ignored it because I'm not claiming any evidence exists. You have been ignoring what I have been saying (or possibly trolling yourself), if you think I am claiming this.

 

[Cronos]

So as long as all women living under Sharia law are executed for being raped, then executing women living under Sharia law who are raped is fair? I suppose you have a point, but I think we are talking about different uses of the word fair.

Using these analogies hurt your case more than help.

The WADA code is voluntary. Sharia Law is not.

 

[FuManchu]

So as long as all women living under Sharia law are executed for being raped, then executing women living under Sharia law who are raped is fair? I suppose you have a point, but I think we are talking about different uses of the word fair.

The most inane ridiculous analogy. The players were educated right from the start and they could refuse administration of any supplement right up until it enters their body and exercise their duty to check, which includes actually having the supplement tested for legality.

The fact that they didn't even bother making any checks meant they either didn't care enough or thought they could plead ignorance and try and blame shift. Even though they know blame shifting isn't an excuse.

You're ridiculous analogy of Sharia law is both insensitive and wrong. Those unfortunate victims of crimes enacted in the name of some nonsensical interpretation of a 'religion' had no choice, they couldn't at any stage say 'no'.

 

[Argy]

So wtf is your actual point other than "it's not fair!"

Spot on.

I posted much earlier in this thread that unless some amazing evidence to the contrary comes into the public domain my view is that EFC, Hird and the players cheated.

If the players did so by an error of omission (not checking the status of the drugs they were injecting) then I would still view them as cheats. If they were injected with drugs different to what they were told they were being given I would have sympathy for them as individuals, but that would not change the fact that they gained an unfair advantage over their competition.

Nothing will change my opinion of the Essendon football club.

No matter what the outcome might be (short of staggering new evidence to the contrary) I have formed the view that EFC have acted well outside any reasonable interpretation of sportsmanship. They have treated their players, the AFL, the other clubs, ASADA, their fans and other football followers with disdain. Contempt even.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Using these analogies hurt your case more than help.

The WADA code is voluntary. Sharia Law is not.

They are equivalently voluntary in that if you don't want to abide by those rules, you don't go there or play AFL. Otherwise they are equivalently not voluntary. They are also equivalent in that in some circumstances people get punished for things that get done to them against their will, by the strict application of the rules. And like it is possible to criticize (or not accept as right) those circumstances in Sharia law, it is also possible to criticize (or not accept as right) those circumstances in the WADA code. If one sees fit.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

So as long as all women living under Sharia law are executed for being raped, then executing women living under Sharia law who are raped is fair? I suppose you have a point, but I think we are talking about different uses of the word fair.

what the * is this analogy?

 

[jenny61_99]

Amazing ignorance being shown by the Essendon haters here. Which Essendon fans have claimed players should be allowed to play by whatever rules they want? Not me. I've merely pointed out that players have no choice but to abide by the rules, if they wish to play AFL, even if they don't agree with them if circumstances arise where they are unfairly punished by them. And it seems most agree. This does not mean (in my view) that they are not unfairly punished if this happens.

You keep saying that they will be unfairly punished. If they broke the rules, they deserve to be punished. It really is that simple.

 

[Registered User]

I didn't know where to put this, or even if it's worth posting, but:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...lls-for-james-hirds-head-20141124-11sxfk.html

Essendon board candidate calls for James Hird's head
November 24, 2014 - 5:37PM
By Rohan Connally

"......one candidate has declared his opposition to James Hird remaining coach of the club.
Bill Jennings, who runs a mentoring program for schools, is one of nine people running for the Bomber board...."

 

[chelseacarlton]

Yes, Essendon players are just like women who are murdered for being raped under Sharia Law.
Makes perfect sense.
The depth of stupidity it seems is infinite.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Yes, Essendon players are just like women who are murdered for being raped under Sharia Law.
Makes perfect sense.
The depth of stupidity it seems is infinite.

But the irony is delicious. You do realise analogous doesn't mean "just like" right?

And I'm only saying that this is only if it is made clear they were doped against their will?

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

So as long as all women living under Sharia law are executed for being raped, then executing women living under Sharia law who are raped is fair? I suppose you have a point, but I think we are talking about different uses of the word fair.

With the greatest of respect, this analogy is both repugnant and irrelevant.

The AFL players are able to freely exercise their choice on whether they want to play or not. If they are morally offended by the compulsions and obligations of their employment contract, they have an obvious and immediate remedy at hand - to resign. Not surprisingly, they choose not to resign but rather to ply their trade with the hope that for a short while they we be a minor, somewhat highly paid celebrity. Is it fair that they are required to agree to certain terms and conditions of employment? Of course it is, and it is a nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

[chelseacarlton]

But the irony is delicious. You do realise analogous doesn't mean "just like" right?

And I'm only saying that this is only if it is made clear they were doped against their will?

How were they doped against their will?. How is this ironic?,how is that delicious?.
How is it comparable?

 

[Whatsonswhat]

With the greatest of respect, this analogy is both repugnant and irrelevant.

The AFL players are able to freely exercise their choice on whether they want to play or not. If they are morally offended by the compulsions and obligations of their employment contract, they have an obvious and immediate remedy at hand - to resign. Not surprisingly, they choose not to resign but rather to ply their trade with the hope that for a short while they we be a minor, somewhat highly paid celebrity. Is it fair that they are required to agree to certain terms and conditions of employment? Of course it is, and it is a nonsense to suggest otherwise.

The post I quoted was telling me that a punishment can be considered to be fair just so long as everyone who does the same thing that caused that punishment, is punished to the same extent. This is true in one use of the word fair (i.e., equal). However, I was talking about the kind of fair which considers whether the one being punished, deserved their punishment along with everyone else who gets equally punished for the same thing, if what they are being punished for was done to them against their will. What's irrelevant here, is what rule structure is allowing the punishment to occur. Or how one came to be bound by it.

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

The post I quoted was telling me that a punishment can be considered to be fair just so long as everyone who does the same thing that caused that punishment, is punished to the same extent. This is true in one use of the word fair (i.e., equal). However, I was talking about the kind of fair which considers whether the one being punished, deserved their punishment along with everyone else who gets equally punished for the same thing, if what they are being punished for was done to them against their will. What's irrelevant here, is what rule structure is allowing the punishment to occur. Or how one came to be bound by it.

Were drugs injected into them against their will?

 

[Broken_Chairs]

But the irony is delicious. You do realise analogous doesn't mean "just like" right?

And I'm only saying that this is only if it is made clear they were doped against their will?

if it is made clear they were doped against their will... i'll get hirdy on the phone to organise a humanitarian trip to the middle east. i definitely feel that all those those women who have been/continue to be raped and abused under sharia law would find it invaluable to hear from the essendon players experiences. they'll really be able to relate to a group of highly paid, educated, first world football stars who ended up being doped while actively embarking on a cutting edge, boundary pushing supplement program that was designed to circumvent the WADA code, who suspected enough to ask for a list of substances taken to cover their own asses but couldn't be bothered to double check what was actually on the list. all in an attempt to win some games of football

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Were drugs injected into them against their will?

I don't know. But it remains a possibility that might be revealed to be true when the defense gets to make a case in the tribunal hearing?

 

[D-N-R]

I didn't know where to put this, or even if it's worth posting, but:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...lls-for-james-hirds-head-20141124-11sxfk.html

Essendon board candidate calls for James Hird's head
November 24, 2014 - 5:37PM
By Rohan Connally

"......one candidate has declared his opposition to James Hird remaining coach of the club.
Bill Jennings, who runs a mentoring program for schools, is one of nine people running for the Bomber board...."

Calls for his head! That's some extreme use of Sharia law there!

 

[D-N-R]

I don't know. But it remains a possibility that might be revealed to be true when the defense gets to make a case in the tribunal hearing?

If the players were told they would be injected with A and were given B, then they would have a case for not being responsible. They would then go on to sue Dank (or whoever) and Dank would be spoken to by any number of criminal agencies about his conduct. No different than a doctor telling you he will give you X and then gives you Y without your knowledge or consent.

The players signed forms for 'Thymosin', which is a fairly generic name which could mean any number of things.

The EFC 'lost' the receipts or anything which might shed some light on what it actually was.

ASADA suspect it may be bad 'Thymosin' and have found a trail linking said drug with the EFC supplements program.

Good luck!