No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Pevers-Legend said:
By this, you must think that we should be putting this issue to bed. That implies that Essendon want to. Perhaps we dont.

Speculation if we play a praccy and several senior players don't play = they are the drug cheats. It's a freaking minefield and any games he plays with the media on this particular topic is fine by me. I stress this topic too :D
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I just don't think he has to say anything at all. No mention of premature or the like- just "we look forward to the tribunal process".

That gives them nothing. Instead, people jump on the 'premature' and speculation abounds.
 
Saint said:
The self reporting was to get ahead of the ACC investigation which would have no doubt uncovered the program at Essendon. From that point, the club was behind the 8-ball in not knowing as much as the ACC did about it's own drug program (run by Dank). Records and controls were so poor that a criminal investigation knew more than the club. While the club still believes now (and then) that they'd done nothing wrong and any investigation would only clear them.

When the club realised it wasn't that clear-cut, they realised they were in an adversarial position, which they thought they wouldn't be in. I can't see how the club could have played it differently to the way they have. If they'd fought all the way, we'd still probably be in the same place evidence wise, but with zero good-will from ASADA in sentencing if found guilty.
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And who did the risk analysis of self reporting? This was a major decision.

FWIW, Cronulla was specifically told not to self report by their legal representatives.

No point crying over spilt milk. Just pointing out that the world is not as beautiful place as some people on this forum seem to believe. And maybe our advice and representation is simply not good enough.

EFC has given us so much pleasure over so many years.

We have got a poor record in this case and I believe we need some serious improving. Comments on here suggest that things are in great hands.
 

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efcboy said:
For those criticising Hirds choice of lawyer according to those in the know his representative Hanks QC wrote the book when it comes to constitution and this case indeed was a constitutional matter.

And spare me the NSW vs VIC legal debate...
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Excuse the intrusion but I can tell you that Neil Young for Essendon came to same conclusion as Hanks and advised the Bombers to appeal. Wrong advice with the benfit of hindsight but there's no question that Hird had an arguable case....he wasn't out on a limb.
 
I'm not sure if anyone really believes the world is a beautiful place, nor that mistakes among our legal representatives weren't made.

When this point keeps being made in conjunction with pumping up the tyres of NSW legals, however, it begins to take on the smell of something suspiciously similar to ulterior agenda pushing.
 
Doss said:
I'm not sure if anyone really believes the world is a beautiful place, nor that mistakes among our legal representatives weren't made.

When this point keeps being made in conjunction with pumping up the tyres of NSW legals, however, it begins to take on the smell of something suspiciously similar to ulterior agenda pushing.
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The ulterior motive is that my family follows Essendon and we want the players cleared.

We are high mark members with reserved Seats at MCG and Ethiad.

We donated $s to the new training centre like many other bombers.

My kid is a 3yo has a 22 on his back of and went and saw Jake train on Monday. Daughter is a 1yo and became a member at 1 week old. Got her bomber hat signed by Jobe on Monday.

Now getting back to your question, are you telling me that people similar to myself are not entitled to an opinion. And if they say something that conflicts another's opinion, the others can provide comments like ridiculous?
 
Every single supporter wants the players cleared, MarkG. I'm not questioning that, and nor am I questioning your support for Essendon.

I'm saying nothing of the sort in relation to opinion and your right to it either. I am, however, questioning why you keep bringing up this NSW v Vic thing when it seems an utter irrelevancy. Neil Young is one of the top three or four rated silks in the country. That's not to say he isn't human and prone to the odd error, but this conviction that things would have been automatically better taking the NSW approach (whatever that even is) seems pretty odd to me. There's nothing unique in the Sydney water supply that I'm aware of.

Maybe, just maybe, Hird was fighting a case that was not winnable.
 
Doss said:
Every single supporter wants the players cleared, MarkG. I'm not questioning that, and nor am I questioning your support for Essendon.

I'm saying nothing of the sort in relation to opinion and your right to it either. I am, however, questioning why you keep bringing up this NSW v Vic thing when it seems an utter irrelevancy. Neil Young is one of the top three or four rated silks in the country. That's not to say he isn't human and prone to the odd error, but this conviction that things would have been automatically better taking the NSW approach (whatever that even is) seems pretty odd to me. There's nothing unique in the Sydney water supply that I'm aware of.

Maybe, just maybe, Hird was fighting a case that was not winnable.
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And do you believe that the players have the best possible representation at the tribunal?

I am not so convinced.

I run a business that does a lot of work for the large legal companies (Australia, UK and US). And have made many friends in those partnerships at a senior level. They know that I support Essendon.

And they give me their thoughts on how the case is tracking. This NSW versus Victoria is not something that I simply made up. It came from legal partnerships that operate in both states.

They were also surprised by the tact of questioning the legality of TB4 believing that should have been investigated and discovered prior to the case?

And when I mention risk assessments of your planned actions, that is exactly what happens in any serious business. That is also not made up.
 
cymarak said:
As long he's only burning his own money, and not interfering with the tribunal case, I can live with that.

Whether it'd be a smart decision by him to appeal is definitely another question - and the timing is an issue as you point out - but as I say, as long as he's only burning his own money ...

I want him to choose to not appeal - because I'm sick of it - but if he appeals I won't see this as a reason why he should step down / be sacked.
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I suggest that Hird has backers for his legal fees.
 
Who is say the approach would have been any different if the silks had magically emanated from north of the Murray? Sorry, but it's a complete hypothetical because, guess what, NSW silks didn't work for Essendon or Hird. Continuing to state they would have got a better result is ultimately guesswork.

I agree on one thing- the question of the status of TB4 was left too late. But there is no way of knowing for sure it would have been handled differently had it been in the hands of other lawyers.

Question- did the club or Hird ever consider taking on representation other than what they eventually did?
 

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Dan Cooper said:
Could there possibly be anyone less informed on the ASADA saga than SEN's resident dimwit Mark "I've just crashed my car" Allen?
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Rebecca Wilson would be a handy candidate. Or someone whose initials are RP.
 
Doss said:
Every single supporter wants the players cleared, MarkG. I'm not questioning that, and nor am I questioning your support for Essendon.

I'm saying nothing of the sort in relation to opinion and your right to it either. I am, however, questioning why you keep bringing up this NSW v Vic thing when it seems an utter irrelevancy. Neil Young is one of the top three o
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yaco55 said:
I have no idea why Essendon FC/players/AFLPA have failed to employ Mark M. He appears to have the influence and the answers.
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Or perhaps they should have employed you Yaco. You sit back and override all other statements made by anyone.

Bottom line is do you believe that EFC and the players could have done anything better. Could they have learned and improved along the way.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
because it's not in the interests of the EFC for this to go any further. Any tribunal action will be done and dusted, and even any potential penalties already concluded by the time a High Court judgement finishes up.

No, it's demonstrably not in the interests of the EFC. That's why it's a choice IMO
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He'd have to get special leave to appeal - the application could happen next week if the court decided. If denied, it would take like 30 mins. Literally. Counsel have 15 mins to make submissions and when the red light goes on in the lecturn they have to stop after finishing their sentence. And if the bench don't think the would be appellant has made a good case, they won't even bother hearing a reply. It's pretty brutal!
 
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Doss said:
Who is say the approach would have been any different if the silks had magically emanated from north of the Murray? Sorry, but it's a complete hypothetical because, guess what, NSW silks didn't work for Essendon or Hird. Continuing to state they would have got a better result is ultimately guesswork.

I agree on one thing- the question of the status of TB4 was left too late. But there is no way of knowing for sure it would have been handled differently had it been in the hands of other lawyers.

Question- did the club or Hird ever consider taking on representation other than what they eventually did?
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I believe Tanya would have had a big say on James' selection and perhaps even the EFCs selection.

Why have NSW legal got a better record.... simply because they have more experience in this type of case in both Sydney and Canberra (a couple of hours drive down the road). Not because they are any smarter.

And if you were going to pick a lawyer to contest the case who are you up against? Howe QC ....... he is the master who lives and breathe this type of case.

Players need an equal or better, whatever it takes.... sorry... bad slogun.....
 
MarkG said:
I believe Tanya would have had a big say on James' selection and perhaps even the EFCs selection.

Why have NSW legal got a better record.... simply because they have more experience in this type of case in both Sydney and Canberra (a couple of hours drive down the road). Not because they are any smarter.

And if you were going to pick a lawyer to contest the case who are you up against? Howe QC ....... he is the master who lives and breathe this type of case.

Players need an equal or better, whatever it takes.... sorry... bad slogun.....
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And yet I've spoken to lawyers who would say Young is better regarded than Howe.

Different strokes, I guess.
 
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