Eagles 2015 team

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Unfortunately talking about our midfield is like trying to decide where to go for beers in the Swan Valley.

Guy 1: "Let's go to Feral..."
Guy 2; "Nah we've been to Feral the last few times and they only have like two good beers"
Guy 3: "What about MASH?"
Guy 1: "**** that! They only have like 1 good beer"
Guy 3: "But remember that time those chicks with the big cans were there..."
Guy 2: "What about Duckstein?"
Guy 1 & 3: "Are you ****ing stupid!!"
Crestfallen Guys 1,2 & 3 "...I guess we'll stick with Feral then."


(Apologies to any butts that were hurt by the making of this post)
Haha Mash Copycat is pretty damn good tho
 
I think the criticisms of our midfield are overblown. We have played with big sides in the past couple of years and lacked depth through the midfield as a result, as well as around the ground mobility. This has put more pressure on too few.

The second half of last year seemed to be the start of fixing this when Glass retired (as much as I will miss him), and we stopped playing games with three rucks. I think our team/midfield will also be better for having a settled ruck combination rather than rotation policy (let's hope for no injuries to Lycett and Nicnat). With too many bigs we were structurally imbalanced and our game was one dimensional.

So exchanging a couple of talls with a couple of extra running players in the side will help our midfield depth, meaning they can play better for longer. This should prevent losses such as we had against Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon last year. My memories of all those games is that we were in winning positions but were overrun through the midfield in the period of a horrible 20 minutes.

We also had a horrible run of injuries with some of our midfielders/runners in 2014.

Selwood played 12 games.
Yeo played 13 games. Injured just as he was settling into the side and playing good footy, and was not in the team late last year as we seemed to be improving through the middle.
Wellingham played 13 games. Admittedly some missed from pea heart.
Rosa played 14 games.
Le cras played 15 games. Although not a midfielder per se, adds to our mobility in the front half.

Having these guys fully fit (and hopefully waters) will strengthen our midfield and around ground mobility. I agree that some of our midfielders lack quality under pressure, but having more of our better runners available and a better balanced running side should create time and space for all.

I still have high hopes that we have enough potential in some of our younger 'best 22' players to see the burden lifted off players like Shuey. Gaff showed a lot of improvement in the 2nd half of last year, and I think we all have high hopes that Yeo will be the x-factor we need in the midfield. These guys improve the way we want and the game gets just a bit easier for the rest. Guys who once looked average or inconsistent shouldering the burden would then look much better getting less attention.

We can then only hope that all of our new recruits (and Sheed) improve so fast that it places a lot of pressure on some of the current 'best 22' for spots. I don't think we necessarily need to rely on these guys though to be optimistic about improvement in our midfield in 2015.

That's my two cents worth.
Gaff's scope for improvement is fairly constrained though - he's never going to be very contested because of his frame and he'll never have breakaway pace. He's improvement will come from learning to deal with a tag.

Yeo we all have a lot of faith pinned on but he's not a natural midfielder so he's no guarantee.

I don't think Selwood playing a full season makes enough difference to our chances against the midfields of most top 8 sides. I just don't rate him as a midfielder but i might just be biased.

I agree that we played too tall in 2014.
 
I think the criticisms of our midfield are overblown. We have played with big sides in the past couple of years and lacked depth through the midfield as a result, as well as around the ground mobility. This has put more pressure on too few.

The second half of last year seemed to be the start of fixing this when Glass retired (as much as I will miss him), and we stopped playing games with three rucks. I think our team/midfield will also be better for having a settled ruck combination rather than rotation policy (let's hope for no injuries to Lycett and Nicnat). With too many bigs we were structurally imbalanced and our game was one dimensional.

So exchanging a couple of talls with a couple of extra running players in the side will help our midfield depth, meaning they can play better for longer. This should prevent losses such as we had against Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon last year. My memories of all those games is that we were in winning positions but were overrun through the midfield in the period of a horrible 20 minutes.

We also had a horrible run of injuries with some of our midfielders/runners in 2014.

Selwood played 12 games.
Yeo played 13 games. Injured just as he was settling into the side and playing good footy, and was not in the team late last year as we seemed to be improving through the middle.
Wellingham played 13 games. Admittedly some missed from pea heart.
Rosa played 14 games.
Le cras played 15 games. Although not a midfielder per se, adds to our mobility in the front half.

Having these guys fully fit (and hopefully waters) will strengthen our midfield and around ground mobility. I agree that some of our midfielders lack quality under pressure, but having more of our better runners available and a better balanced running side should create time and space for all.

I still have high hopes that we have enough potential in some of our younger 'best 22' players to see the burden lifted off players like Shuey. Gaff showed a lot of improvement in the 2nd half of last year, and I think we all have high hopes that Yeo will be the x-factor we need in the midfield. These guys improve the way we want and the game gets just a bit easier for the rest. Guys who once looked average or inconsistent shouldering the burden would then look much better getting less attention.

We can then only hope that all of our new recruits (and Sheed) improve so fast that it places a lot of pressure on some of the current 'best 22' for spots. I don't think we necessarily need to rely on these guys though to be optimistic about improvement in our midfield in 2015.

That's my two cents worth.

I agree with Spaceclef.

Not discounting the information in your post, but you could technically just look past all of it to this one fact...

Our starting midfield is found wanting and rarely wins a head to head against another teams. It's simply not good enough.

Selwood, Priddis, Masten, Hutchings <----- They aren't good enough players to compliment the one potentially A grade mid we have in Shuey. Nothing changes that fact. No need to point out Matt's Brownlow either, i'm talking about damaging and hurting the opposition 'good', not racking up stats 'good'.

Yeo is everything those players ^ are not, which is sad considering we all have high expectations for him and he's not even a genuine midfielder yet. It's what happens when the club actually grabs a player who isn't slow and 180cm tall. Yeo is tall, athletic, versatile, aggressive, line breaking and fricken sexy... so he stands out like an alien in our midfield when he pinch hits in there.
 

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Our midfield should improve a bit just from the fact we have a bit more depth now. At times last year we literally had only one or two midfielders playing in the WAFL and they were young and not ready. People whinged that we kept going "same old" but there was no other choice. This year will show us if Simpson is willing to change things up.
 
I agree with Spaceclef.

Not discounting the information in your post, but you could technically just look past all of it to this one fact...

Our starting midfield is found wanting and rarely wins a head to head against another teams. It's simply not good enough.

Selwood, Priddis, Masten, Hutchings <----- They aren't good enough players to compliment the one potentially A grade mid we have in Shuey. Nothing changes that fact. No need to point out Matt's Brownlow either, i'm talking about damaging and hurting the opposition 'good', not racking up stats 'good'.

Yeo is everything those players ^ are not, which is sad considering we all have high expectations for him and he's not even a genuine midfielder yet. It's what happens when the club actually grabs a player who isn't slow and 180cm tall. Yeo is tall, athletic, versatile, aggressive, line breaking and fricken sexy... so he stands out like an alien in our midfield when he pinch hits in there.
Well, who woulda thunk it. Dark sharks agrees that Eagles midfield is no good, not rack up possession no good, but hurting and damaging opposition no good, especially Priddis. Now I plan to get away from the great Priddis debate (by the way your assumption that I would point out his Brownlow is misplaced, I have never given an opinion on Priddis - but I acknowledge your many documented opinions on him).

I it find interesting that you state as fact that our midfield rarely wins head to head. I am confident the Eagles midfield regularly wins against the midfields of lower placed teams, so I assume you mean that our midfield rarely wins against higher placed team and quality midfields. I can accept that.

The point of my original comments was to provide a view on why I think that our midfield loses against quality midfields. Even if I accept (for the sake of simplifying the argument) that our individual players suck as you suggest, we still played with way too many talls. So we had less depth in our midfield meaning that those sucky players tired much quicker than the other teams midfielders who were constantly rotating players through the midfield. So my view is that our selection policy put our midfield at a disadvantage straight up.

So, with a more balanced team unit, and with the benefit of some individual player improvement or return of best 22 midfielders, I see reasons for optimism in 2015. How much room for improvement is there, who knows. Maybe we suffer important injuries again and all this theory turns to dust. But you maintain that rage against individuals, xxx is vanilla, yyy sucks, zzz can't kick, xyz is too slow (we shoulda got Cockatoo), and Priddis is all of the above. Keep fighting the good fight.
 
The point of my original comments was to provide a view on why I think that our midfield loses against quality midfields. Even if I accept (for the sake of simplifying the argument) that our individual players suck as you suggest, we still played with way too many talls. So we had less depth in our midfield meaning that those sucky players tired much quicker than the other teams midfielders who were constantly rotating players through the midfield. So my view is that our selection policy put our midfield at a disadvantage straight up.
I think the overly-tall argument is fairly valid, but it's not as relevant to our midfield as it would be to others, considering the one thing our midfield is good at is running all day. If our mids were more explosive burst players then limiting their numbers by jamming too many talls in the side would be detrimental. But Gaff, Masten and Rosa are all death by a thousand cuts types anyway, and rely on endurance rather than bursts.

So while I think we definitely carried one too many ruckmen and KPD last year, I don't think going in smaller will make Masten/Gaff improve very much. We need a more damaging outside alternative to Gaff to draw the tag away from him and let him run all day.

I also see optimism for improvement, but I have a lot of faith in Sheed and Yeo, rather than expecting much more from the status quo. Shuey will become more consistent as long as he stays on the park. I also think having the upward pressure and contracts looming will squeeze better performances out of our other non-KPP

Most sides have midfields that extend to HFFs and HBFs - last year were didn't get enough around the ground from Cripps, Hill, Darling, Ellis, Schofield...McGinnity when he played forward...

Cripps - hit the 50 game milestone, averages 10 touches a game, what's his future? Hill - on the chopping block but still played 30 games in the last two years and has also averaged 10 touches a game. Both typically get the odd sneaky couple of goals a game between them, but will Cavka, Karpany or Lamb offer more around the ground? The top sides play guys like Breust, Hannebery etc in these positions.
 
I think the overly-tall argument is fairly valid, but it's not as relevant to our midfield as it would be to others, considering the one thing our midfield is good at is running all day. If our mids were more explosive burst players then limiting their numbers by jamming too many talls in the side would be detrimental. But Gaff, Masten and Rosa are all death by a thousand cuts types anyway, and rely on endurance rather than bursts.

So while I think we definitely carried one too many ruckmen and KPD last year, I don't think going in smaller will make Masten/Gaff improve very much. We need a more damaging outside alternative to Gaff to draw the tag away from him and let him run all day.

I also see optimism for improvement, but I have a lot of faith in Sheed and Yeo, rather than expecting much more from the status quo. Shuey will become more consistent as long as he stays on the park. I also think having the upward pressure and contracts looming will squeeze better performances out of our other non-KPP

Most sides have midfields that extend to HFFs and HBFs - last year were didn't get enough around the ground from Cripps, Hill, Darling, Ellis, Schofield...McGinnity when he played forward...

Cripps - hit the 50 game milestone, averages 10 touches a game, what's his future? Hill - on the chopping block but still played 30 games in the last two years and has also averaged 10 touches a game. Both typically get the odd sneaky couple of goals a game between them, but will Cavka, Karpany or Lamb offer more around the ground? The top sides play guys like Breust, Hannebery etc in these positions.
I am not sure I agree with your first paragraph. Yes they run all day, but what impact does this have on them compared with other teams that have fresh and burst players constantly rotating through the midfield. I think there were games last year where our mids bust a gut just to stay in the game, then they fell off the pace and we had six goals kicked against us in the space of twenty minutes. This suggests to me that they suffered from not having enough rotations and depth.

With the rest of your post I think you built on the issue I was highlighting. Too many talls plus too many guys around the ground not capable of playing midfield and not doing enough = very tired midfielders. To lay the blame on those guys busting their guts in the midfield (notwithstanding the need for improvement) is a bit simplistic.

Anyway, I agree that their will be quite a few players playing for careers this year, and that is a positive from my perspective. I also have a lot of faith in Yeo, and as I originally pointed out him back in the side will help us improve.
 
From my understanding after every year all AFL teams have to make at least 3 changes to their senior list, either draftees or rookie upgrades. In 2014 6 changes were made and in 2013 about 7 changes were made.

Who do people think will be playing for their career this season. At the end of 2015 there will be 12 players out of contract.

1 Sam Butler
He was given a 1 year contract last season. Turned 29 a couple of weeks ago but has only played 120 games due to injury, his injuries have also caused him to move out of the midfield to the back line. At first i was very hatsh on Butler but after watching some replays i like his composure and skills but i still think he is outside of the best 22 and playing for his career.

2 Beau Waters
Waters has been injured for the last 2 seasons but when fit is a quality player. If he suffers another season ending injury requiring surgery i feel that he may decide to retire. But i hope that isn't the case as he is a good tough leader in a young defence.

3 Josh Hill
Playing for the club for the past 3 seasons Hill has been a quality player. But under Adam Simpson he has fallen out of favour. Toward the end of last season i liked the way he played, applying good pressure and kicking a goal or two per game. His biggest downfall is the mental side of his game. Hill is probably playing for his career this season.

4 Scott Selwood
Selwood is in the best 22 but the issue is that he hasn't signed a contract extension. This contract talk will be interesting to watch out for through the season.

5 Sharrod Wellingham
He just hasn't performed after the club gave up a first round selection. The club came out and said that Sharrod has to perform this season. He is playing for his career.

6 Xavier Ellis.
A former top 3 selection. Ellis showed good skills and versatility last season, if he can get through the season without injury there is no reason why Ellis can't get an extension.

7 Patrick Mcginnity
Sorry but i'm not a big fan of this guy. He has good speed and aggression but is limited to defensive roles. Doesn't get enough of the ball and is let down with disposal skills. Playing for his career this season.

8 Fraser Mcinness
Fraser has been on the list for a few years and is last in the pecking order of a long list of KPP's and won't get in unless there are injuries. Kennedy will probably play until 2018/2020. He hasn't dominated the WAFL but it is good to have a young tall incase an injury occurs. I have no comment on whether he is playing for his career or not but probably needs to start dominating WAFL.

9 Dom Sheed 10 Malcolm Karpany 11 Tom Barass 12 Dylan Main
As long as these guys show some good form in the WAFL or AFL they should be given new contracts.

If Will Maginness and Murray Newman continue their WAFL form i hope they both are promoted to the senior list.
 
From my understanding after every year all AFL teams have to make at least 3 changes to their senior list, either draftees or rookie upgrades. In 2014 6 changes were made and in 2013 about 7 changes were made.

Who do people think will be playing for their career this season. At the end of 2015 there will be 12 players out of contract.

1 Sam Butler
He was given a 1 year contract last season. Turned 29 a couple of weeks ago but has only played 120 games due to injury, his injuries have also caused him to move out of the midfield to the back line. At first i was very hatsh on Butler but after watching some replays i like his composure and skills but i still think he is outside of the best 22 and playing for his career.

2 Beau Waters
Waters has been injured for the last 2 seasons but when fit is a quality player. If he suffers another season ending injury requiring surgery i feel that he may decide to retire. But i hope that isn't the case as he is a good tough leader in a young defence.

3 Josh Hill
Playing for the club for the past 3 seasons Hill has been a quality player. But under Adam Simpson he has fallen out of favour. Toward the end of last season i liked the way he played, applying good pressure and kicking a goal or two per game. His biggest downfall is the mental side of his game. Hill is probably playing for his career this season.

4 Scott Selwood
Selwood is in the best 22 but the issue is that he hasn't signed a contract extension. This contract talk will be interesting to watch out for through the season.

5 Sharrod Wellingham
He just hasn't performed after the club gave up a first round selection. The club came out and said that Sharrod has to perform this season. He is playing for his career.

6 Xavier Ellis.
A former top 3 selection. Ellis showed good skills and versatility last season, if he can get through the season without injury there is no reason why Ellis can't get an extension.

7 Patrick Mcginnity
Sorry but i'm not a big fan of this guy. He has good speed and aggression but is limited to defensive roles. Doesn't get enough of the ball and is let down with disposal skills. Playing for his career this season.

8 Fraser Mcinness
Fraser has been on the list for a few years and is last in the pecking order of a long list of KPP's and won't get in unless there are injuries. Kennedy will probably play until 2018/2020. He hasn't dominated the WAFL but it is good to have a young tall incase an injury occurs. I have no comment on whether he is playing for his career or not but probably needs to start dominating WAFL.

9 Dom Sheed 10 Malcolm Karpany 11 Tom Barass 12 Dylan Main
As long as these guys show some good form in the WAFL or AFL they should be given new contracts.

If Will Maginness and Murray Newman continue their WAFL form i hope they both are promoted to the senior list.

Tunbridge will be at the top of the list I would think. He needs to show something this year.
 
From my understanding after every year all AFL teams have to make at least 3 changes to their senior list, either draftees or rookie upgrades. In 2014 6 changes were made and in 2013 about 7 changes were made.

Who do people think will be playing for their career this season. At the end of 2015 there will be 12 players out of contract.

1 Sam Butler
He was given a 1 year contract last season. Turned 29 a couple of weeks ago but has only played 120 games due to injury, his injuries have also caused him to move out of the midfield to the back line. At first i was very hatsh on Butler but after watching some replays i like his composure and skills but i still think he is outside of the best 22 and playing for his career.

2 Beau Waters
Waters has been injured for the last 2 seasons but when fit is a quality player. If he suffers another season ending injury requiring surgery i feel that he may decide to retire. But i hope that isn't the case as he is a good tough leader in a young defence.

3 Josh Hill
Playing for the club for the past 3 seasons Hill has been a quality player. But under Adam Simpson he has fallen out of favour. Toward the end of last season i liked the way he played, applying good pressure and kicking a goal or two per game. His biggest downfall is the mental side of his game. Hill is probably playing for his career this season.

4 Scott Selwood
Selwood is in the best 22 but the issue is that he hasn't signed a contract extension. This contract talk will be interesting to watch out for through the season.

5 Sharrod Wellingham
He just hasn't performed after the club gave up a first round selection. The club came out and said that Sharrod has to perform this season. He is playing for his career.

6 Xavier Ellis.
A former top 3 selection. Ellis showed good skills and versatility last season, if he can get through the season without injury there is no reason why Ellis can't get an extension.

7 Patrick Mcginnity
Sorry but i'm not a big fan of this guy. He has good speed and aggression but is limited to defensive roles. Doesn't get enough of the ball and is let down with disposal skills. Playing for his career this season.

8 Fraser Mcinness
Fraser has been on the list for a few years and is last in the pecking order of a long list of KPP's and won't get in unless there are injuries. Kennedy will probably play until 2018/2020. He hasn't dominated the WAFL but it is good to have a young tall incase an injury occurs. I have no comment on whether he is playing for his career or not but probably needs to start dominating WAFL.

9 Dom Sheed 10 Malcolm Karpany 11 Tom Barass 12 Dylan Main
As long as these guys show some good form in the WAFL or AFL they should be given new contracts.

If Will Maginness and Murray Newman continue their WAFL form i hope they both are promoted to the senior list.
Swap Sheed for Tunbridge
 

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I would think tunbridge and collage would need to show a lot this season .
Tunbridge is a great user of the ball but can't find it
Collage can find it no problem but can't use it .

If only we drafted Brian Collbridge !
 
I think Tunbridge and College are contracted until the end of 2016.
 
Colledge is. Not sure about Tunbridge but suspect he only got one year.
Yeah i think you're correct about Tunbridge. I couldn't find anything on the website about His contract. He'll need to perform this year as well.
 
From my understanding after every year all AFL teams have to make at least 3 changes to their senior list, either draftees or rookie upgrades. In 2014 6 changes were made and in 2013 about 7 changes were made.

Who do people think will be playing for their career this season. At the end of 2015 there will be 12 players out of contract.

1 Sam Butler
He was given a 1 year contract last season. Turned 29 a couple of weeks ago but has only played 120 games due to injury, his injuries have also caused him to move out of the midfield to the back line. At first i was very hatsh on Butler but after watching some replays i like his composure and skills but i still think he is outside of the best 22 and playing for his career.

2 Beau Waters
Waters has been injured for the last 2 seasons but when fit is a quality player. If he suffers another season ending injury requiring surgery i feel that he may decide to retire. But i hope that isn't the case as he is a good tough leader in a young defence.

3 Josh Hill
Playing for the club for the past 3 seasons Hill has been a quality player. But under Adam Simpson he has fallen out of favour. Toward the end of last season i liked the way he played, applying good pressure and kicking a goal or two per game. His biggest downfall is the mental side of his game. Hill is probably playing for his career this season.

4 Scott Selwood
Selwood is in the best 22 but the issue is that he hasn't signed a contract extension. This contract talk will be interesting to watch out for through the season.

5 Sharrod Wellingham
He just hasn't performed after the club gave up a first round selection. The club came out and said that Sharrod has to perform this season. He is playing for his career.

6 Xavier Ellis.
A former top 3 selection. Ellis showed good skills and versatility last season, if he can get through the season without injury there is no reason why Ellis can't get an extension.

7 Patrick Mcginnity
Sorry but i'm not a big fan of this guy. He has good speed and aggression but is limited to defensive roles. Doesn't get enough of the ball and is let down with disposal skills. Playing for his career this season.

8 Fraser Mcinness
Fraser has been on the list for a few years and is last in the pecking order of a long list of KPP's and won't get in unless there are injuries. Kennedy will probably play until 2018/2020. He hasn't dominated the WAFL but it is good to have a young tall incase an injury occurs. I have no comment on whether he is playing for his career or not but probably needs to start dominating WAFL.

9 Dom Sheed 10 Malcolm Karpany 11 Tom Barass 12 Dylan Main
As long as these guys show some good form in the WAFL or AFL they should be given new contracts.

If Will Maginness and Murray Newman continue their WAFL form i hope they both are promoted to the senior list.

  • From that list I think the following players are playing for there careers. Patrick McGinnity ~ Fraser McInnes ~ Dylan Main ~ Simon Tunbridge and Josh Hill. Sharrod Wellingham is lucky. I'm holding out hope but if he spends half the year at WAFL level in 2015 than look out.
  • Sam Butler and Beau Waters are almost year by year propositions because of time out with injury. Both still offer a lot on and off the field but. Last guys left from the 2006 GF team IIRC. Priddis, Hurn, Rosa, LeCras etc. were squad listed players but didn't make the 22.
  • I'd say the rest all have claims to be safe from the chopping block.
 
They only gave him a one-year deal, which would suggest he's under some pressure.

There's definitely pressure been applied; that pressure comes in the form of a one year deal, it means it's make or break time. A one year deal is hardly surprising given McInnes' current rate of development, as well as factoring in McGovern and Lycett's development leaving McInnes a fair way down the pecking order. WC have no need to take a slow and steady approach to McInnes when they currently have a number of better options. If WC were hard-pressed for KPP options, a different tack may have been taken with a longer contract offered.

If WC pick up Matera as a F/S pick with their last pick in the ND, and a slider like Kafka happens to be on the table again at WC's 4th round pick, McIness may be unfortunately cut under this circumstance, but otherwise I think WC have enough de-list options ahead of McIness for this year. A one year deal for McIness is good list management, as it leaves options open.
 
Our forward options
Kennedy Darling McGovern lycett --------------------------------------> McInness Sinclair lamb

With lamb a project talent and Sinclair our only backup ruck, McInnes is the least valuable .

Could he fit into our backline
Emac brown schofield McGovern ---------------------------> barrass Powell McInnes

We have so many tall options but our midfield is a
Dry Barron wasteland :(
 
Our forward options
Kennedy Darling McGovern lycett --------------------------------------> McInness Sinclair lamb

With lamb a project talent and Sinclair our only backup ruck, McInnes is the least valuable .

Could he fit into our backline
Emac brown schofield McGovern ---------------------------> barrass Powell McInnes

We have so many tall options but our midfield is a
Dry Barron wasteland :(

Lamb is the odd one out on your list. Every one of those players can play as a KPF, with the exception being Lamb. Lamb may be a couple of centimetres taller than Darling, but he's not a KPF, he's more akin to Brent Staker in being a KP height flanker.
 
They only gave him a one-year deal, which would suggest he's under some pressure.
Plus he's been standing under that notice board at training lately with McGinnity.
 
Lamb is the odd one out on your list. Every one of those players can play as a KPF, with the exception being Lamb. Lamb may be a couple of centimetres taller than Darling, but he's not a KPF, he's more akin to Brent Staker in being a KP height flanker.
Lamb looked very good as a lead up forward in TAC and the u18 champs . I can see lamb playing very much like NRoo as a gut busting running forward . Lamb will have no trouble putting on bulk unlike staker and within a couple of seasons he will be a unit !
 

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