our best team ever

[Pessimistic]

Rough would be th big man on the bench. Very flexible

 

[Procrastinator35]

If he was playing now, I was thinking about what Brereton might have done to halt the Kennett curse. We seemed to be going into too many of those post 2008 games afraid to lose rather than daring to win. Of course Geelong was a great side and the bounce of the ball went their way more than once but you would have to think Dermie would have changed the equation by having a go at Chapman or running through the Geelong huddle or just by kicking goals and firing up the whole team when the game was there to be won.

Can't like this post enuf.

We got over the Cats because their upset finally dissipated enuf against us, along with the eventual loss of enough players (Chappy) to get us across the line.

In half those losses against the Cats, Derm, Dipper & Barney's brand of justice was exactly what was required to turn them around....No chance in hell would we have lost 11 H&A games in a row if any of those 3 were still in our team.

These guys would have asked questions of the Cats composure in every way imaginable, particularly psychologically, & done every thing in their power to upset their apple-cart....That is what got me so angry in our losses against this mob....We allowed them to bully us....So Un-Hawthorn-like.

That particular component is precisely what is lacking in Hodge's game. And for that matter, Roughead & the entire current day side....But hey, i was brought up on 70's footy; Not this polystyrene, 21st century, politically-correct spank!

Hodge might be tough, a great leader & a match winner on his day....But he is no game-Breaker!....Whereas Barney, Derm & Dipper were dam-Busters, who could single-handedly change the course of a game with a well timed hip & shoulder, elbow, fist....You name it, whatever it takes!...These guys hated losing like no other & would do something about it!

 

[Pessimistic]

I think geelong have demonstrated that "doing something about it" these days is whinging to the umpires.

The great lions team tried the biff in 2004 and failed miserably


I Was thinking in the mitchell thread how the guy hasn't got the violent aspects to fall back on, so in some ways its harder. The thread shows the innocuous incident mitch did get rubbed out for

 

[Procrastinator35]

I think geelong have demonstrated that "doing something about it" these days is whinging to the umpires.

The great lions team tried the biff in 2004 and failed miserably


I Was thinking in the mitchell thread how the guy hasn't got the violent aspects to fall back on, so in some ways its harder. The thread shows the innocuous incident mitch did get rubbed out for

I don't think any of these examples captures the point i'm trying to make at all.

For example....When Selwood put Goo down behind the play, did a single Hawthorn player fly the flag to enact justice & recompense?....I was utterly sickened that Selwood was allowed to leave that field that night of his own accord!....Piss-Weak was my gut instinct at the time!

Those games were important enuf to warrant a 4-6 week penalty, which Derm, Dipper & Barney would cop just for the sake of the team & the importance of winning to snap any psychological hold a team had over us!

Most especially a finals opponent in our direct firing line for Flag honors.

I'm talking about game-sense, & knowing when precisely is the right time to deliver a knock-out blow to precisely the right bloke, to put the opposition team on the back foot & thinking twice next time they put their head over the ball....That kind of fear or second guessing was never instilled into the Cats players by any one of our blokes on a single occasion....It was ******* appalling to watch.

Lets be honest; We lacked gumption!

 

[JoeHawk]

I don't think any of these examples captures the point i'm trying to make at all.

For example....When Selwood put Goo down behind the play, did a single Hawthorn player fly the flag to enact justice & recompense?....I was utterly sickened that Selwood was allowed to leave that field that night of his own accord!....Piss-Weak was my gut instinct at the time!

Those games were important enuf to warrant a 4-6 week penalty, which Derm, Dipper & Barney would cop just for the sake of the team & the importance of winning to snap any psychological hold a team had over us!

Most especially a finals opponent in our direct firing line for Flag honors.

I'm talking about game-sense, & knowing when precisely is the right time to deliver a knock-out blow to precisely the right bloke, to put the opposition team on the back foot & thinking twice next time they put their head over the ball....That kind of fear or second guessing was never instilled into the Cats players by any one of our blokes on a single occasion....It was ******* appalling to watch.

Lets be honest; We lacked gumption!

I agree with a lot of what you say. We must be of similar vintage when that's how footy was played. Dermie's hit on Van Der Haar, Dipper on many others. Matthews on Bruns.....perhaps too far! But Game changers in many ways. That said though, how did you respond to sniper Lloyds hit on Sewell. It was certainly dirty but did the job. They stunned the Hawks. It was ugly being on the receiving end but inspirational from the other end. That's how the game was once played but most of us I'd say, collectively sulked about it because it happened to us.

The biff is certainly dead but when it does occur expect a 6 week holiday.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I agree with a lot of what you say. We must be of similar vintage when that's how footy was played. Dermie's hit on Van Der Haar, Dipper on many others. Matthews on Bruns.....perhaps too far! But Game changers in many ways. That said though, how did you respond to sniper Lloyds hit on Sewell. It was certainly dirty but did the job. They stunned the Hawks. It was ugly being on the receiving end but inspirational from the other end. That's how the game was once played but most of us I'd say, collectively sulked about it because it happened to us.

The biff is certainly dead but when it does occur expect a 6 week holiday.

The Bruns incident is probably a poor example....There are many hits delivered by Barney over the years that better encapsulate the essence of physical & psychological 'gamesmanship'....His bulldozing of Cable in the 71 state game in W/A for example, or Stuart Trott in the 71 GF, or Greig in the 76 GF.

Fortunately for us, we acquired a bloke with the right credentials 2 seasons ago, at the end of 2012....You know, the one bloke who was castigated by all & sundry for Giving Petrie what he had coming to him....The same bloke who puts big girls knickers Porkins, back in his box every time he sets eyes on him....The same bloke who won the 2013 NSM & has single handedly been the difference in delivering to us Back to Back flags!...The same bloke who played the entire finals series with internal bleeding against doctors advice.....Remind you of anyone????

FWIW....He was prepared to wear the 4 weeks....It may have cost us that game & the 4 points, but by Christ did I like it.....The BS he copped from his own corner thereafter, was disappointing to say the least....Especially when he's just what the doctor ordered in shaking up the overly-homogeneous mind-set at our club.

 

[Pessimistic]

Lakes treatment by the media was scandalous.

A few years before flogs like darcy were praising barry hall for doing worse. And it was a fine at worst. When did it become three weeks ?

 

[Rioli magic]

Was it the only way to get a Carltank player on the list?

Genuine question - haven't checked who is on the Team.

Only got in because of a ridiculous technicality in the voting process. Doesn't excuse selecting him over Langford but still typically embarrassing of the league.


"The technicality - or loophole - came when the selectors were told a player not in the AFL Hall of Fame was not eligible for selection.

It provided a ridiculous situation where two greats, Dench and Southby, couldn’t be picked, but Silvagni, who was then a current player and thus ineligible for the Hall of Fame, could be.

There wasn’t a rule saying any current player was ineligible.

It’s mind-boggling that Dench and Southby were out, and Silvagni was in, because of a rule which didn’t really mean anything.

Aylett’s opinion was that Silvagni would’ve missed out if the rule was not in place.

It wouldn’t have even got to consideration for Stephen. It’s nothing against him, but we couldn’t consider the other two because they weren’t in the Hall of Fame.

As for Silvagni, I don’t think he played that many games at full-back then either, because he did start off at centre half-forward.

I can remember all of us looking at one another, shaking our heads., because the rules hadn’t been properly framed.

In the end, it was a loophole.

Not even looking back, I thought straight away either Dench or Southby for that position and we really didn’t go looking for Silvagni.

They had to after learning the rule, a rule which changed history."


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...tle-known-secret/story-fn8wskg9-1226946216665

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

I must have been dreaming during the 70s. I was positive there was full back by the name of Kelvin Moore. I thought he played 300 games for Hawthorn and played in three Premierships. I dreamed that he was the best full back I have seen play. Obviously that player must have been Chris Southdensevani.

 

[Spook]

If you sit down and pick the best Hawthorn team ever - as one does at this time of year when nothing much is happening - how many current day players get a game?

I reckon Gibbo is now worthy of a spot in defence. I saw Kennedy, Collins, Parkin, Langford etc and I reckon he's better than them.

Hodge is on a back flank, Mitchell is in the centre and Burgoyne and Lewis get runs on the bench. Sadly, I had to name Franklin on a forward flank.

The biggest problem is the ruck. Scott, Tuck, Matthews must pick themselves, but who is number two ruckman? Salmon? I can't put him in this team, despite being the only ruckman since Scott to win our B&F.


Gibson Moore Ayres
Hodge Mew Knights
Pritchard Mitchell Crawford
Franklin Brereton Buckenara
Platten Hudson Dunstall

R: Scott Tuck Matthews

Bench: Jarman Arthur Lewis Burgoyne

Brendan Edwards and Chris Langford are stiff, Dipper less so. Never saw Bohan or Austen. Ian Law was honest but not good enough for this. Nor was Roy Simmonds. Jarman may be considered lucky, but he was a freak. Hopefully, somebody like Roughead, Rioli or Hill will step up and push him out.

With a half back line of: Hodge Mew Knights who cares about the backline as the ball would never get there

 

[jiphoc]

I reckon Gibbo is now worthy of a spot in defence. I saw Kennedy, Collins, Parkin, Langford etc and I reckon he's better than them.

I am sorry but please reconsider this statement.

 

[ItsOver9000]

Chris Langford best full back. End of story!

 

[walhawk]

It's an interesting discussion point. Undoubtably Dermie has had more epic moments. But he also had more lean periods too. Particularly as his career wore on and injury started taking their toll.

Roughies career has been the inverse of Dermotts. Slow start but gradually improving to the point where is widely considered as the second best key position player in the comp, behind Franklin (some would rather Rough to Buddy).

Aside from consistency the other aspect of his game that shades Dermie is his versatility. Not sure how Derm would have gone in the ruck or ruck roving. Plus he (Roughie) has recently developed a hard edge to his game, giving him that extra ingredient of menace.

Go back and watch the 87 Preliml last quarter as Derm played across half back/midfield. He simply did not let any thing past. Derm would have been a champion in any position and a 100 goal FF.
Just ask him.

 

[walhawk]

Moore Langford Ayres
Hodge Mew Knights
Dipper Mitchell Crawford
Franklin Brereton Buckenara
Matthews Hudson Dunstall
R: Scott Tuck Platten
Int: Arthur Bohan Edwards ?
These 21 are all undisputed champions of Hawthorn.

 

[perko]

Kelvin Moore made Hawthorn's Team of The Century as full-back and, in my view, deserved to. Langford was named on the bench. Perhaps Langford does get in ahead of Gibson, but I'm of the view that Gibson is an outstanding player who has had to play on bigger men for much of his time at Hawthorn. Now, with Lake and Frawley down back, I reckon we'll see him get even better.

As for Brereton v Roughead, not yet for Roughie.

 

[walhawk]

Kelvin Moore made Hawthorn's Team of The Century as full-back and, in my view, deserved to. Langford was named on the bench. Perhaps Langford does get in ahead of Gibson, but I'm of the view that Gibson is an outstanding player who has had to play on bigger men for much of his time at Hawthorn. Now, with Lake and Frawley down back, I reckon we'll see him get even better.

As for Brereton v Roughead, not yet for Roughie.

Moore was great at FB and BP. After watching Langers destroy Kernahan in the 86 GF this week on Fox, he gets the FB gig with Moore next to him.
Gibbo is good - but is nowhere near this class.
Jenke, O'Halloran, Maginness, Holland, Croad and plenty of others all played as many great games for Hawthorn (and state games) as Gibbo has so far.
Landford, Mew, Knights, Moore, all played twice as many great games for us. And their best was better than Gibbo's.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Moore Langford Ayres
Hodge Mew Knights
Dipper Mitchell Crawford
Franklin Brereton Buckenara
Matthews Hudson Dunstall
R: Scott Tuck Platten
Int: Arthur Bohan Edwards ?
These 21 are all undisputed champions of Hawthorn.

Hard to argue with that starting 18.....Faultless!....Full forward line might be a tad on the slow & heavy side but.

 

[perko]

Dunstall slow? You've got to be kidding. It was his speed that made him so dynamic. No stamina, but plenty of speed. And we're talking Matthews at his peak.

 

[butchy]

Pritchard is easily the most underrated player at Hawthorn of all time.
His 89 grand final was as good as anyone that day, but all we hear about is Dipper, Dermie, the injuries and Ablett's 9 goals.
Ablett 6-7 goals, I reckon Pritch wins the norm smith.

There are many arguements to say certain players should be in ahead of older players, but who goes out.
Of recent years, Hodge, Crawford, Mitchell and Buddy are the only possible ins

 

[walhawk]

Dunstall slow? You've got to be kidding. It was his speed that made him so dynamic. No stamina, but plenty of speed. And we're talking Matthews at his peak.

You won't get any defensive work from Huddo, Lethal or Bucky - it would be all out attack!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Dermie is still way ahead of Rough imo. He dragged us over the line many times more than the big Rough has. Love Rough heaps but Derm is a legend for a reason.

Agreed, Rough is a very good player, Derm's one of the greats !!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Pritchard is easily the most underrated player at Hawthorn of all time.
His 89 grand final was as good as anyone that day, but all we hear about is Dipper, Dermie, the injuries and Ablett's 9 goals.
Ablett 6-7 goals, I reckon Pritch wins the norm smith.

Dunno bout all time....Rocket Eade was as good a wingman as Pritchard, more aggressive too. Even Racehorse Ablett I'd rate the equal of him....None of them would warrant replacing Cindy or Bertie, who are both bona fide champions of our club!

John 'Bomber' Hendrie is my pick for most underrated on this board & in our history.

 

[moginie]

Dunno bout all time....Rocket Eade was as good a wingman as Pritchard, more aggressive too. Even Racehorse Ablett I'd rate the equal of him....None of them would warrant replacing Cindy or Bertie, who are both bona fide champions of our club!

John 'Bomber' Hendrie is my pick for most underrated on this board & in our history.

Maybe not in our history, but certainly on our board.

perko I still reckon John Peck should be named as second ruck.

 

[Bedi]

Moore Langford Ayres
Hodge Mew Knights
Dipper Mitchell Crawford
Franklin Brereton Buckenara
Matthews Hudson Dunstall
R: Scott Tuck Platten
Int: Arthur Bohan Edwards ?
These 21 are all undisputed champions of Hawthorn.

Absolutely salivating over this lineup! Very nice work. Starting 18 is faultless in my books. Bench perhaps has scope for debate. To be honest I'd be very tempted to put Rioli or Roughhead on the bench, but i'd be happy to stick with yours too.

As for OP comments on Gibbo, i reckon you could make a very good case for him slotting into this team. Has been absolutely sensational for us. But just can't see him replace anyone from this lineup.

 

[Sixpence]

I must have been dreaming during the 70s. I was positive there was full back by the name of Kelvin Moore. I thought he played 300 games for Hawthorn and played in three Premierships. I dreamed that he was the best full back I have seen play. Obviously that player must have been Chris Southdensevani.

So you rate Moore above Langford? (Legitimate question as I never saw Moore play)

Also, while I have you, can you tell me more about Moncrieff? Sits 4th on our goal-kicking ladder but is never mentioned in these type of threads?

Others are welcome to reply to this too!