News Richmond’s failings unmasked: An in-depth essay

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AstuteTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 22, 2009
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Melbourne
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Richmond
Very good read, admittingly was initially thinking he read all Bigfooty & PRE too and put together this article...It highlights our thoughts over the last few years and knowing now that Cameron is a mad Richmond supporter this would explain his knowings of all that the club is....

I applaud him for his in depth analysis, just hope that this sterling article makes its way to Dimma, Benny, Peggy and the recruiting dept...
Cause for the life of me i cant understand how the club does not see this, obviously living in their own dream world bubble....

By Cameron Rose, 28 Apr 2015

In 2010, Richmond was an early season laughing stock and the so-called “worst team since Fitzroy”. They ended up finishing 15th in Damien Hardwick’s first season in charge.

Collingwood won the flag that year, and five years later, the Magpies may be rising again after having bottomed out to 11th in 2014.

Bottomed out at 11th! Richmond has only finished higher than that four times in the last 13 years, and even then no higher than seventh.

And now the Tigers are faced with the grim reality of having peaked with a couple of elimination final humiliations over the last two seasons, and being back on the slide again.

Richmond supporters are entitled to think that it’s simply not fair. Why is the Richmond Football Club pathologically incapable of any form of sustained competitiveness, let alone success? Just what is wrong at Tigerland?

The despair of supporters after Friday night’s loss to Melbourne is very real, but the crying shame is the lack of surprise that accompanies it. Another week/month/season/decade of numbness is about to set in.

Let’s have a look at Richmond’s list management, recruiting and development, and game-plan and coaching to see if we can identify any weaknesses.

List management
During the Tigers’ woeful form in the first half of 2014, there were many critics of the ‘top up’ players that Richmond had attracted from other clubs, almost all of whom weren’t getting a regular game for their previous side, often in poor performing teams.

During the nadir of 2010, Richmond had realised they needed mature talent of a certain age injected into the club to increase their chances of competitiveness, which led to the likes of Bachar Houli, Shaun Grigg and Ivan Maric coming across in 2011-12, along with the mature Steven Morris from the SANFL.

This was followed by Troy Chaplin, Chris Knights and the more questionable Aaron Edwards, Ricky Petterd and Sam Lonergan for the 2013 season, utilising a combination of free agency, national draft and rookie listing.

It’s important to note that the Tigers didn’t give up a single pick inside the top 35 of any draft for these players, and seven of them were in the best 22 of 2013 that carried Richmond to fifth on the ladder at the end of the home-and-away rounds.

In the four years prior to 2013, Richmond had finished 12th, 12th, 15th, and 15th, and thus no-one’s idea of being in flag contention.

Yet you’ll hear many media and Joe Public talk about how the Tigers thought their premiership window was open by attracting these ‘Moneyball’ players to the club. It’s patently untrue.

In fact, this phase of Richmond’s list management can only be described as a spectacular success, helping lift the club from a winless last in 2010 to fifth in 2013, all within 79 matches.

The off-season heading into 2014 was where it started to go off the rails.

With niggling doubts over the soundness of Ivan Maric’s body, Shaun Hampson was brought across from Carlton as a back-up ruck in 2014, traded for pick 32. This was overs for a non-best 22 player.

Ex-Swan Nathan Gordon was taken late in the draft, supplemented by more rookies with AFL experience, Todd Banfield, Matt Thomas and Anthony Miles. The latter had an immediate impact upon finding his way into the senior team, and became a top-ten player for the club.

The problem wasn’t that the likes of Thomas, Petterd and Gordon were rookie listed. In theory, this type of player was fine to have as a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency. If injuries struck, they could come in for a few games in the middle of winter, and play a role with a hardened body.

The problem was that these players were elevated to best 22 status by Hardwick and co, and too many players in the side shared similar limitations.

They were brought in as experienced depth players, to cover for injuries and help get wins against lesser sides. Richmond though, several times in 2014, and already twice in 2015, keep losing precisely that type of game.

Hardwick often opens post-loss press conferences not wanting to use injuries as an excuse, before proceeding to do so. The Richmond strategy of rookie-listing experienced players makes it look like false advertising. He’s on the hustle either way.

Despite all of this, there are 18 players still on the list from that famous elimination final loss to Carlton, few of which it could be confidently said have their best football behind them. Add to this a host of first and second-round picks currently at the club that weren’t playing that day.

Based on those factors, there are reasons to be optimistic. Something else has been holding the side back.

Recruiting and development
During Hardwick’s reign, the Tigers have continued to mine the draft, never relinquishing their first-round pick, and in fact drafting 13 players inside the top 35 in his time, all of which are still at Tigerland.

The most celebrated of these is Dustin Martin, with the most maligned being Reece Conca.

Seven of these 13 draft picks have already represented Richmond across the first four rounds this season, and there is every chance that number could reach 10 or 11 when the teams come out this Thursday night, with Conca, Ben Lennon, Corey Ellis and Todd Elton all in the frame to replace under-performing or injured players.

The Richmond recruiting staff has been seemingly obsessed with footballing solid citizens. There has been nothing dynamic about these draftees, no sense of x-factor.

Run your eyes across a list of Richmond players, both young and old.

Of the younger brigade, think of Conca, Miles, Nick Vlastuin, Brandon Ellis, Matt Dea, Matt McDonough, Sam Lloyd, Matthew Arnot.

There are little points of difference among them of course, and some with the potential to be very good footballers, but there is a sameness across the board, most notably a lack of flair and speed.

Add this to the likes of Chris Newman, Nathan Foley, ex-Cat Taylor Hunt, Petterd, Grigg, Gordon, Knights and Morris.

All of a sudden, there is a plainness about the list that is all too evident when the team is struggling. No wonder Brett Deledio is so badly missed when out of the side, with his line-breaking run, overall class and goal-kicking prowess.

It’s also easy to see why someone like Shane Edwards has been a standout over the last year and a bit, the master of the deft touch to control the ball, capable of making something out of nothing, more than a hint of magic about him.

Edwards also provides the added bonus of doing the simple things well, something that has been in short supply among his teammates.

Looking particularly at the first round picks of the last six years, is Dustin Martin a vastly superior talent in game 112 than he was in his first year? I’m an avowed Dusty fan, yet I say he is not.

Reece Conca averaged 23 disposals in a six game patch early in his first season. His last six has seen him average just shy of 16.

Nick Vlastuin makes good decisions with a clear mind, and is blessed with composure and skill, but is much the same player 40-odd games into his career as he was on debut.

The Tigers have already rolled a dozen players through the half-forward line in four matches this year, yet Ben Lennon, a classy flanker, pick 12 in 2013, is trundling in the VFL.

Brandon Ellis is one who made a quantum leap in improvement over the course of 2014, his relentless outside run a key factor in Richmond’s fairytale run to the finals. His numbers are solid this season so far, but his impact reduced.

Tyrone Vickery, a top-ten pick acquired before Hardwick’s time, is yet to be seen at AFL level in his seventh year on the list. His third season still stands as his best. It’s a football lifetime ago.

There have certainly been no diamonds found in the rough of any late draft day either.

Of all the young players taken in the draft since Hardwick was appointed, Champion Data, using their famous ratings system, can’t find one player on the Richmond list taken later than pick 15 to rate even as average heading into 2015, let alone above average or elite.

Everything was looking rosy enough when the Tiges were climbing the ladder, as winning always papers over the cracks, but losing brings with it a magnifying glass and a fine-tooth comb.

It’s all too easy to conclude that Richmond’s recruiting and development doesn’t stand up under the scrutiny. In fact, some might say that the development has been all but non-existent.

This has certainly been the case in grooming on-field leaders. Can you think of a Richmond footballer that you’d call ruthless? What about relentless? Tough? Even rugged?

Alex Rance, definitely. Ivan Maric, probably. The cupboard is bare beyond them.

There have been some development wins here and there, yes (talls Ben Griffiths and David Astbury come to mind). And no disastrous draft losses either. Just a whole lot of nothing more than OK.

But there has to be more to it. After all, we keep harking back to the fifth-placed finish in 2013, and that barnstorming nine wins in a row to end the 2014 home-and-away season is fresh in our minds.

Game-plan
The Richmond of 2013 played a fast and flowing brand of football, similar in many ways to Port Adelaide, who were also resurgent that year. In fact, the Tigers actually beat the Power by 41 points at Football Park that season. They also claimed the scalps of eventual grand finalists, Hawthorn and Fremantle, by 41 and 27 points respectively.

It was all predicated on running in waves from half-back, ballistic ball movement, taking the game on at most opportunities, and overlap run and carry. This created all kinds of uncertainty in the opposition, who were never sure which way to look or who to cover as the ball was swept down the ground.

Richmond was also defensively sound, conceding the third least points against, while rating a respectable fifth in attack. The balance was right, and the future looked bright.

Of course, what came next was giving up a 32-point third quarter lead against Carlton in that elimination final, crumbling to the weakest of 20-point defeats, in a performance that spooked the Tigers to such an extent that they are yet to fully recover.

It was a damning public display of tactical coaching ineptitude and alarming lack of on-field leadership, allowing Chris Judd to orchestrate clearance after clearance, and anonymous defender Nick Duigan to kick four goals.

Based on one half of football, albeit a significant one, Hardwick felt the need to fix what wasn’t broken. He wanted to take the pace out of the Richmond game in order to shore up a supposedly leaky defence.

From the very first bounce of the next season, fast movement became slow. Wave running became stagnancy. While previously players looked to attack first and go conservative second when in possession of the ball, it’s amazing to observe now how often the instinct is to look for a safe option, even when in control of the play with momentum their way.

Players will stall with the ball in hand, looking for a bad safe option than a good risky one. This allows opposition teams with ample time to flood back, as we’ve seen in the losses to the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne this season. They just have to bide their time, knowing a Tiger mistake will be forthcoming, either through a missed short kick, or a long bomb to an outnumbered contest.

Hardwick is often heard bemoaning that his side has dominated the inside 50 stats, yet walks away with a loss. In Richmond’s 14 losses since and including that elimination final, seven times they have won the inside 50 count, drawing it on one other occasion too.

Rather than always being about poor entries, this actually tells a story that their defensive mechanisms are fundamentally flawed.

It’s all well and good to press up and lock the ball in the forward-line, which does generate repeat inside 50s to a crowded forward-line, falsely inflating the figures.

But Hardwick’s defenders continually push up too far, to be 60 or 70 metres from their own goal as the last line of defence. When the turnover occurs and the opposition breaks in waves, they are running free and clear toward goal, invariably with a loose man or two among them, with hapless Tiger defenders trailing desperately in their wake.

So where to now for Richmond?

The best sides combine a defensive mindset without the ball with an attacking flair when in possession. It’s not impossible to have both.

Unfortunately, too often the Tigers have a defensive mindset with the ball, and can’t stop attacking flair when without it.

In regards to disappointing performances, all related to mindset, the same broken record continues to play. The same kind of losses keep occurring. Even worse, the same excuses keep getting rolled out.

Richmond may well come out firing against Geelong this week. We can be confident it will last the opening term. We can hope it will last a half. They might even give their all for a full four quarters.

But what about the week after? How about the week after that? Can they produce next time they’re seen on the big stage? The next time the weight of expectation is on their shoulders?

We all know now that it’s not going to happen. 35 years of failure is not so easily overcome.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/04/28/richmonds-failings-unmasked-depth-essay/
 

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Players will stall with the ball in hand, looking for a bad safe option than a good risky one. This allows opposition teams with ample time to flood back, as we’ve seen in the losses to the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne this season. They just have to bide their time, knowing a Tiger mistake will be forthcoming, either through a missed short kick, or a long bomb to an outnumbered contest.
This bit is very true and very frustrating.
 
Very good read, admittingly was initially thinking he read all Bigfooty & PRE too and put together this article...It highlights our thoughts over the last few years and knowing now that Cameron is a mad Richmond supporter this would explain his knowings of all that the club is....

I applaud him for his in depth analysis, just hope that this sterling article makes its way to Dimma, Benny, Peggy and the recruiting dept...
Cause for the life of me i cant understand how the club does not see this, obviously living in their own dream world bubble....

By Cameron Rose, 28 Apr 2015

In 2010, Richmond was an early season laughing stock and the so-called “worst team since Fitzroy”. They ended up finishing 15th in Damien Hardwick’s first season in charge.

Collingwood won the flag that year, and five years later, the Magpies may be rising again after having bottomed out to 11th in 2014.

Bottomed out at 11th! Richmond has only finished higher than that four times in the last 13 years, and even then no higher than seventh.

And now the Tigers are faced with the grim reality of having peaked with a couple of elimination final humiliations over the last two seasons, and being back on the slide again.

Richmond supporters are entitled to think that it’s simply not fair. Why is the Richmond Football Club pathologically incapable of any form of sustained competitiveness, let alone success? Just what is wrong at Tigerland?

The despair of supporters after Friday night’s loss to Melbourne is very real, but the crying shame is the lack of surprise that accompanies it. Another week/month/season/decade of numbness is about to set in.

Let’s have a look at Richmond’s list management, recruiting and development, and game-plan and coaching to see if we can identify any weaknesses.

List management
During the Tigers’ woeful form in the first half of 2014, there were many critics of the ‘top up’ players that Richmond had attracted from other clubs, almost all of whom weren’t getting a regular game for their previous side, often in poor performing teams.

During the nadir of 2010, Richmond had realised they needed mature talent of a certain age injected into the club to increase their chances of competitiveness, which led to the likes of Bachar Houli, Shaun Grigg and Ivan Maric coming across in 2011-12, along with the mature Steven Morris from the SANFL.

This was followed by Troy Chaplin, Chris Knights and the more questionable Aaron Edwards, Ricky Petterd and Sam Lonergan for the 2013 season, utilising a combination of free agency, national draft and rookie listing.

It’s important to note that the Tigers didn’t give up a single pick inside the top 35 of any draft for these players, and seven of them were in the best 22 of 2013 that carried Richmond to fifth on the ladder at the end of the home-and-away rounds.

In the four years prior to 2013, Richmond had finished 12th, 12th, 15th, and 15th, and thus no-one’s idea of being in flag contention.

Yet you’ll hear many media and Joe Public talk about how the Tigers thought their premiership window was open by attracting these ‘Moneyball’ players to the club. It’s patently untrue.

In fact, this phase of Richmond’s list management can only be described as a spectacular success, helping lift the club from a winless last in 2010 to fifth in 2013, all within 79 matches.

The off-season heading into 2014 was where it started to go off the rails.

With niggling doubts over the soundness of Ivan Maric’s body, Shaun Hampson was brought across from Carlton as a back-up ruck in 2014, traded for pick 32. This was overs for a non-best 22 player.

Ex-Swan Nathan Gordon was taken late in the draft, supplemented by more rookies with AFL experience, Todd Banfield, Matt Thomas and Anthony Miles. The latter had an immediate impact upon finding his way into the senior team, and became a top-ten player for the club.

The problem wasn’t that the likes of Thomas, Petterd and Gordon were rookie listed. In theory, this type of player was fine to have as a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency. If injuries struck, they could come in for a few games in the middle of winter, and play a role with a hardened body.

The problem was that these players were elevated to best 22 status by Hardwick and co, and too many players in the side shared similar limitations.

They were brought in as experienced depth players, to cover for injuries and help get wins against lesser sides. Richmond though, several times in 2014, and already twice in 2015, keep losing precisely that type of game.

Hardwick often opens post-loss press conferences not wanting to use injuries as an excuse, before proceeding to do so. The Richmond strategy of rookie-listing experienced players makes it look like false advertising. He’s on the hustle either way.

Despite all of this, there are 18 players still on the list from that famous elimination final loss to Carlton, few of which it could be confidently said have their best football behind them. Add to this a host of first and second-round picks currently at the club that weren’t playing that day.

Based on those factors, there are reasons to be optimistic. Something else has been holding the side back.

Recruiting and development
During Hardwick’s reign, the Tigers have continued to mine the draft, never relinquishing their first-round pick, and in fact drafting 13 players inside the top 35 in his time, all of which are still at Tigerland.

The most celebrated of these is Dustin Martin, with the most maligned being Reece Conca.

Seven of these 13 draft picks have already represented Richmond across the first four rounds this season, and there is every chance that number could reach 10 or 11 when the teams come out this Thursday night, with Conca, Ben Lennon, Corey Ellis and Todd Elton all in the frame to replace under-performing or injured players.

The Richmond recruiting staff has been seemingly obsessed with footballing solid citizens. There has been nothing dynamic about these draftees, no sense of x-factor.

Run your eyes across a list of Richmond players, both young and old.

Of the younger brigade, think of Conca, Miles, Nick Vlastuin, Brandon Ellis, Matt Dea, Matt McDonough, Sam Lloyd, Matthew Arnot.

There are little points of difference among them of course, and some with the potential to be very good footballers, but there is a sameness across the board, most notably a lack of flair and speed.

Add this to the likes of Chris Newman, Nathan Foley, ex-Cat Taylor Hunt, Petterd, Grigg, Gordon, Knights and Morris.

All of a sudden, there is a plainness about the list that is all too evident when the team is struggling. No wonder Brett Deledio is so badly missed when out of the side, with his line-breaking run, overall class and goal-kicking prowess.

It’s also easy to see why someone like Shane Edwards has been a standout over the last year and a bit, the master of the deft touch to control the ball, capable of making something out of nothing, more than a hint of magic about him.

Edwards also provides the added bonus of doing the simple things well, something that has been in short supply among his teammates.

Looking particularly at the first round picks of the last six years, is Dustin Martin a vastly superior talent in game 112 than he was in his first year? I’m an avowed Dusty fan, yet I say he is not.

Reece Conca averaged 23 disposals in a six game patch early in his first season. His last six has seen him average just shy of 16.

Nick Vlastuin makes good decisions with a clear mind, and is blessed with composure and skill, but is much the same player 40-odd games into his career as he was on debut.

The Tigers have already rolled a dozen players through the half-forward line in four matches this year, yet Ben Lennon, a classy flanker, pick 12 in 2013, is trundling in the VFL.

Brandon Ellis is one who made a quantum leap in improvement over the course of 2014, his relentless outside run a key factor in Richmond’s fairytale run to the finals. His numbers are solid this season so far, but his impact reduced.

Tyrone Vickery, a top-ten pick acquired before Hardwick’s time, is yet to be seen at AFL level in his seventh year on the list. His third season still stands as his best. It’s a football lifetime ago.

There have certainly been no diamonds found in the rough of any late draft day either.

Of all the young players taken in the draft since Hardwick was appointed, Champion Data, using their famous ratings system, can’t find one player on the Richmond list taken later than pick 15 to rate even as average heading into 2015, let alone above average or elite.

Everything was looking rosy enough when the Tiges were climbing the ladder, as winning always papers over the cracks, but losing brings with it a magnifying glass and a fine-tooth comb.

It’s all too easy to conclude that Richmond’s recruiting and development doesn’t stand up under the scrutiny. In fact, some might say that the development has been all but non-existent.

This has certainly been the case in grooming on-field leaders. Can you think of a Richmond footballer that you’d call ruthless? What about relentless? Tough? Even rugged?

Alex Rance, definitely. Ivan Maric, probably. The cupboard is bare beyond them.

There have been some development wins here and there, yes (talls Ben Griffiths and David Astbury come to mind). And no disastrous draft losses either. Just a whole lot of nothing more than OK.

But there has to be more to it. After all, we keep harking back to the fifth-placed finish in 2013, and that barnstorming nine wins in a row to end the 2014 home-and-away season is fresh in our minds.

Game-plan
The Richmond of 2013 played a fast and flowing brand of football, similar in many ways to Port Adelaide, who were also resurgent that year. In fact, the Tigers actually beat the Power by 41 points at Football Park that season. They also claimed the scalps of eventual grand finalists, Hawthorn and Fremantle, by 41 and 27 points respectively.

It was all predicated on running in waves from half-back, ballistic ball movement, taking the game on at most opportunities, and overlap run and carry. This created all kinds of uncertainty in the opposition, who were never sure which way to look or who to cover as the ball was swept down the ground.

Richmond was also defensively sound, conceding the third least points against, while rating a respectable fifth in attack. The balance was right, and the future looked bright.

Of course, what came next was giving up a 32-point third quarter lead against Carlton in that elimination final, crumbling to the weakest of 20-point defeats, in a performance that spooked the Tigers to such an extent that they are yet to fully recover.

It was a damning public display of tactical coaching ineptitude and alarming lack of on-field leadership, allowing Chris Judd to orchestrate clearance after clearance, and anonymous defender Nick Duigan to kick four goals.

Based on one half of football, albeit a significant one, Hardwick felt the need to fix what wasn’t broken. He wanted to take the pace out of the Richmond game in order to shore up a supposedly leaky defence.

From the very first bounce of the next season, fast movement became slow. Wave running became stagnancy. While previously players looked to attack first and go conservative second when in possession of the ball, it’s amazing to observe now how often the instinct is to look for a safe option, even when in control of the play with momentum their way.

Players will stall with the ball in hand, looking for a bad safe option than a good risky one. This allows opposition teams with ample time to flood back, as we’ve seen in the losses to the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne this season. They just have to bide their time, knowing a Tiger mistake will be forthcoming, either through a missed short kick, or a long bomb to an outnumbered contest.

Hardwick is often heard bemoaning that his side has dominated the inside 50 stats, yet walks away with a loss. In Richmond’s 14 losses since and including that elimination final, seven times they have won the inside 50 count, drawing it on one other occasion too.

Rather than always being about poor entries, this actually tells a story that their defensive mechanisms are fundamentally flawed.

It’s all well and good to press up and lock the ball in the forward-line, which does generate repeat inside 50s to a crowded forward-line, falsely inflating the figures.

But Hardwick’s defenders continually push up too far, to be 60 or 70 metres from their own goal as the last line of defence. When the turnover occurs and the opposition breaks in waves, they are running free and clear toward goal, invariably with a loose man or two among them, with hapless Tiger defenders trailing desperately in their wake.

So where to now for Richmond?

The best sides combine a defensive mindset without the ball with an attacking flair when in possession. It’s not impossible to have both.

Unfortunately, too often the Tigers have a defensive mindset with the ball, and can’t stop attacking flair when without it.

In regards to disappointing performances, all related to mindset, the same broken record continues to play. The same kind of losses keep occurring. Even worse, the same excuses keep getting rolled out.

Richmond may well come out firing against Geelong this week. We can be confident it will last the opening term. We can hope it will last a half. They might even give their all for a full four quarters.

But what about the week after? How about the week after that? Can they produce next time they’re seen on the big stage? The next time the weight of expectation is on their shoulders?

We all know now that it’s not going to happen. 35 years of failure is not so easily overcome.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/04/28/richmonds-failings-unmasked-depth-essay/


and this is why our list is not that great.

Short term over achievement from money ball second handers has taken out the possibility of drafting the top echelon draft picks plus add in draft slips in Conca and TV and there you have it plus the odd other draft and development blunder.

J Brown and Dunstall hit the nail on the head on ' On the couch' last night!!

Making us competitive short term has deprived us the opportunity to build properly for a real premiership opportunity atm! You have to think long term and adopt the GWS philosophy on list management avoiding the perils of Gold Coast!
 
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While all this is pretty spot on, we should note that not one team won after playing the super hard g in round one and no team has won after playing the Gabba.

Let's see how west coast go this weekend

We lost delidio round 1

Newman and chaplain in brisi

As well as grimes knights lambert petard Drummond

Injuries are not an excuse but the number of leg injuries across all teams needs to be explored
 
He failed to mention the compromised drafts.
Richmond wasn't the only team affected by the compromised draft.

I think Richmond, Essendon, Brisbane, Melbourne, Port and Bulldogs were most affected by the compromised draft.

Of those, Port and Bulldogs are the only ones who appear to have gotten their mojo on even if their stocks were limited, and to a lesser extent, Melbourne and Essendon did too.

Richmond and Brisbane seem to be the ones in trouble currently. Brisbane at least appear to be going for superstars such as Dane Beams and a solid player such as Allen Christensen (don't shoot me if he is a spud lol). Richmond however, are just topping up with players they already have plenty of on their list. Our list is now built on fringe players for the most part that wouldn't be best 22 in many other lists. Our potential superstars wouldn't flourish in an environment like that. What else did the club expect was going to happen? Did they expect the team was suddenly going to be a Premiership contender after doing that?

We also took Gordon and Lloyd in a shallow draft.

Gordon and Lloyd I can deal with. I actually think Lloyd is a pretty exciting player when he is up and about. Takes risks in the forward line and is often rewarded for it. We actually need more players like him in that aspect. He just needs to find consistency though.
 

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And when we make the finals again this year everyone is going to go, " How the * did they do that "

A mass over-reaction completely ignoring our massive injury list, I wonder why there wasn't this reaction after we thrashed Brisbane, where's the media criticism of Essendon, oh that's right they are the darlings of the media, Essendon have an older list, more experienced list, some would say a more talented list but yet in the last 68 home and away games they sit level pegging with Richmond at 38-1-29 but yet it's Richmond with the problems according the media.
 
Richmond wasn't the only team affected by the compromised draft.

I think Richmond, Essendon, Brisbane, Melbourne, Port and Bulldogs were most affected by the compromised draft.

Of those, Port and Bulldogs are the only ones who appear to have gotten their mojo on even if their stocks were limited, and to a lesser extent, Melbourne and Essendon did too.

Richmond and Brisbane seem to be the ones in trouble currently. Brisbane at least appear to be going for superstars such as Dane Beams and a solid player such as Allen Christensen (don't shoot me if he is a spud lol). Richmond however, are just topping up with players they already have plenty of on their list. Our list is now built on fringe players for the most part that wouldn't be best 22 in many other lists. Our potential superstars wouldn't flourish in an environment like that. What else did the club expect was going to happen? Did they expect the team was suddenly going to be a Premiership contender after doing that?



Gordon and Lloyd I can deal with. I actually think Lloyd is a pretty exciting player when he is up and about. Takes risks in the forward line and is often rewarded for it. We actually need more players like him in that aspect. He just needs to find consistency though.


Answers the questions really.

We are talking about missing out on Heppell, Bontempelli, Wines, Wingard, Stringer and Macrae.


All top 10 draft picks.


Now the question is if we did not get Chaplin, Houli and Grigg would we have 2 or 3 of Wines, Stringer and Macrae given we would not have picked Heppell anyway and Wingard wanted to stay in SA?
 
And when we make the finals again this year everyone is going to go, " How the **** did they do that "

A mass over-reaction completely ignoring our massive injury list, I wonder why there wasn't this reaction after we thrashed Brisbane, where's the media criticism of Essendon, oh that's right they are the darlings of the media, Essendon have an older list, more experienced list, some would say a more talented list but yet in the last 68 home and away games they sit level pegging with Richmond at 38-1-29 but yet it's Richmond with the problems according the media.
I will give you the injury thing because that is true. But that doesn't take away the fact that Richmond hasn't landed a big fish in a while, and that fringe players delisted elsewhere are able to walk into Richmond's best 22. The only delisted players that should potentially be a start up in our side are from teams that are heading to a rebuild after success, because they are getting rid of some of their older superstars. Or a delisted player that fits a specific need (and is not a spud in that position). A non-22 player from Carlton or Port though? I don't think so.

Paul Chapman was cut from Geelong, but was in no way a spud. We could have snapped him up. Instead, the club openly stated that they were not going for him after he was linked to us. From my recollection, he was even interested in playing for Richmond. He would have brought great on-field leadership and could have been a great mentor to the younger players (and even the older ones) as he played in grand finals and won premierships. We should have also gone for Jeff Garlett this offseason. He would have filled our need for a small forward very well I would think.

It is little things like this that add up over time and change the way our list looks. Without any injuries, our list right now could easily be a top 8 side and comfortably too (like in 2013). But I think that they will only make up the numbers rather than be a real threat. If things do not change much in our list over the next few years like it didn't last year, we will go back to the bottom without having achieved much AND potentially lose some of our superstars along the way. Then, we will be looking back at this era as another false dawn.
 
Answers the questions really.

We are talking about missing out on Heppell, Bontempelli, Wines, Wingard, Stringer and Macrae.


All top 10 draft picks.


Now the question is if we did not get Chaplin, Houli and Grigg would we have 2 or 3 of Wines, Stringer and Macrae given we would not have picked Heppell anyway and Wingard wanted to stay in SA?
Yes. We may have looked past many players because we already imported a fringe player of another team to fill that role at Richmond. So we thought "Well, don't need this guy from the draft anymore". Then, unsurprisingly, other teams swoop in and unearth a superstar.

Watch in a few years time. People on this board may be saying "I cannot believe that Richmond passed over Laverde for Corey Ellis". I am not saying that because I think Corey Ellis is crap. I am only saying this because it is such a Richmond thing to do lol :p
 
and this is why our list is not that great.

Short term over achievement from money ball second handers has taken out the possibility of drafting the top echelon draft picks plus add in draft slips in Conca and TV and there you have it plus the odd other draft and development blunder.

J Brown and Dunstall hit the nail on the head on ' On the couch' last night!!

Making us competitive short term has deprived us the opportunity to build properly for a real premiership opportunity atm! You have to think long term and adopt the GWS philosophy on list management avoiding the perils of Gold Coast!

Absolutely agree, well aint nothing wrong with bringing in some money ball players as most clubs have done but we went over board and those players were average at best....On top of that these players in particular thomas, pettard, chaplin, Lloyd and to a lesser extent Aaron edwards were getting games ahead of the youth thus limiting their development...
Morris plays poorly rarely gets dropped, young players come in have a bad or ave game and immediately dropped sending a bad message to the youngsters on the list, Ben Lennon is all class should be in that team....

Recorded on The Couch just watched it....One thing i didnt agree 100% with last night with Benny gale being on Footy Classified, re the expansion teams did limit us but imo thats a bit of a cop out cause i had Dyson Heppel as our first pick instead of Conca plus Dion Prestia went at pic 11 and in 2008 i had jack ziebell instead of Vickery but we did need a ruckman at that time so not overly upset with the vickery pick....
 
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Yes. We may have looked past many players because we already imported a fringe player of another team to fill that role at Richmond. So we thought "Well, don't need this guy from the draft anymore". Then, unsurprisingly, other teams swoop in and unearth a superstar.

Watch in a few years time. People on this board may be saying "I cannot believe that Richmond passed over Laverde for Corey Ellis". I am not saying that because I think Corey Ellis is crap. I am only saying this because it is such a Richmond thing to do lol :p


Reminds me of us ignoring Franklin? Why? were they thinking Richo not considering him for the wing? Who knows and why ignore Pavlich?

Mind boggles some times!
 
Absolutely agree, well aint nothing wrong with bringing in some money ball players as most clubs have done but we went over board and those players were average at best....On top of that these players in particular thomas, pettard, chaplin, Lloyd and to a lesser extent Aaron edwards were getting games ahead of the youth thus limiting their development...
Morris plays poorly rarely gets dropped, young players come in have a bad or ave game and immediately dropped sending a bad message to the youngsters in the list, Ben Lennon is all class should be in that team....

Recorded on The Couch just watched it....One thing i didnt agree 100% with last night with Benny gale being on Footy Classified, re the expansion teams did limit us but imo thats a bit of a cop out cause i had Dyson Heppel as our first pick instead of Conca plus Dion Prestia went at pic 11 and in 2008 i had jack ziebell instead of Vickery but we did need a ruckman at that time so not overly upset with the vickery pick....


I was never sure about why we picked the Vickery pick. When it comes to making selections in the 1st and second round you should never pick for need alone IMO. You have to pick the best choice and usually the selection picks you not the other way around if your filters are right and you are confident.

So if I was picking Vickery it would be because you thought he was the best player at that pick not to fill a need. You can always trade for a ruck man or use some other method like Hawthorn, FA etc.. because they are a gamble until they mature
 
Reminds me of us ignoring Franklin? Why? were they thinking Richo not considering him for the wing? Who knows and why ignore Pavlich?

Mind boggles some times!
Yep. Sigh, I am getting depressed again about Richmond. Let's start talking about good things that Richmond have done :)

They flogged Brisbane by 79 points two weeks ago. The manner that they won in was very uncharacteristically good. And they picked Dustin Martin while Melbourne picked Tom Scully and Jack Trengove :cool:
 
And when we make the finals again this year everyone is going to go, " How the **** did they do that "

A mass over-reaction completely ignoring our massive injury list, I wonder why there wasn't this reaction after we thrashed Brisbane, where's the media criticism of Essendon, oh that's right they are the darlings of the media, Essendon have an older list, more experienced list, some would say a more talented list but yet in the last 68 home and away games they sit level pegging with Richmond at 38-1-29 but yet it's Richmond with the problems according the media.

TT we might still make the finals but after 6 years we need to be challenging not hoping to make the finals, look at hawks, swans, freo and port we want to aspire to be like them "top 2/top 4" not on the fringes of the 8, gotta say with this list atm we cant win the grand final....
We have the nucleus of a good side when all fit but we need to add to that and last years draft + rookie draft was a step in the right direction....Stop adding mediocre players in free agency and instead target class, skill and/or x factor....
 
Yep. Sigh, I am getting depressed again about Richmond. Let's start talking about good things that Richmond have done :)

They flogged Brisbane by 79 points two weeks ago. The manner that they won in was very uncharacteristically good. And they picked Dustin Martin while Melbourne picked Tom Scully and Jack Trengove :cool:


Yes good old Melbourne:D:thumbsu:
 
I will give you the injury thing because that is true. But that doesn't take away the fact that Richmond hasn't landed a big fish in a while, and that fringe players delisted elsewhere are able to walk into Richmond's best 22. The only delisted players that should potentially be a start up in our side are from teams that are heading to a rebuild after success, because they are getting rid of some of their older superstars. Or a delisted player that fits a specific need (and is not a spud in that position). A non-22 player from Carlton or Port though? I don't think so.

Paul Chapman was cut from Geelong, but was in no way a spud. We could have snapped him up. Instead, the club openly stated that they were not going for him after he was linked to us. From my recollection, he was even interested in playing for Richmond. He would have brought great on-field leadership and could have been a great mentor to the younger players (and even the older ones) as he played in grand finals and won premierships. We should have also gone for Jeff Garlett this offseason. He would have filled our need for a small forward very well I would think.

It is little things like this that add up over time and change the way our list looks. Without any injuries, our list right now could easily be a top 8 side and comfortably too (like in 2013). But I think that they will only make up the numbers rather than be a real threat. If things do not change much in our list over the next few years like it didn't last year, we will go back to the bottom without having achieved much AND potentially lose some of our superstars along the way. Then, we will be looking back at this era as another false dawn.
Only my opinion but I reckon the club got spooked with the criticism from taking players from other clubs and calmed it down in the last 2 trade periods instead going the draft option instead, expect different this year.
 

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