Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[hench]

We can help out with the new version this year but it would take a moment to review your itinerary. Please note that the only thing you need to be prepared for is a great time to be able to get a Australian jersey. The first one is not the intended recipient of course I meant Brett will not have a great day. It will be unfortunate for the first time in my life before I go to the toilet game.

 

[tige19]

Slacktivism

Spot on.. Well played

 

[Jade]

This thread makes my brain hurt.

Goodes wasn't booed on a mass scale after he did something dirty or got suspended. Goodes wasn't booed after a run of dubious free kicks. Goodes wasn't booed after his brownlow win. Can we dispense with the ducking and weaving and at least agree that there are a few clear incidents that kicked the whole thing off?

Goodes was booed after being racially abused by a young girl, and subsequently, after years of work with the indigenous communities around Australia, winning the Australian of the Year award and opening up some very serious, yet uncomfortable conversations about race.

People have this moronic idea that racism is about wearing the Australian flag as a cape and screaming "**** the abos!" It's a lot more subtle than that, it's systemic, it's ingrained in our culture. No one, including Goodes, is saying that any individual or collective needs to feel 'guilt' or 'shame' for past atrocities perpetuated against aboriginal Australians. What Goodes and others are doing is trying to get people to recognise that most people living in this country indirectly benefit from the theft, rape and massacre of an entire group of people. This has lasting impacts and the wounds are still fresh. Aboriginals still weren't counted as people in the census less than 50 years ago. I still find it hard to wrap my head around that. Indigenous heads were sent back on ships to England. Tasmanian aboriginal people were wiped off the face of the planet.

None of this implies any sort of culpability for any one white Australian, including myself. It's not my fault that I benefit from the past slaughtering of indigenous people and I'm not going to apologise to anyone for it. But I DO. And that's the important thing. That's the conversation Goodes was trying to have. Realising that maybe young Travis being in jail or having too much drink isn't just a result of loose morals or poor character, but at least partly because of systemic injustices past and present that put him in a position that you couldn't possibly pretend to fully empathise with.

Unfortunately a large proportion of the Australian population wasn't mature or intelligent enough to have this conversation. They heard terms like 'genocide', 'theft', 'invasion' and 'race problems' and quickly jumped on the defensive. They couldn't spurt out 'but I don't hate aboriginals' quick enough. And unfortunately, this is how real racism is perpetuated. Not because your old fashioned uncle (believe me, I have several) openly said 'you can't trust them' but through the failure of everyday Australians to recognise and own the role they inadvertently play in systemic injustice. So then Goodes is a 'flog', a 'grandstander', 'divisive' and other such nonsense.

This is the reason Goodes was initially booed. Maybe a tiny percentage of Hawthorn supporters (and now seemingly every other club's supporters) that booed him are openly distrusting and resentful towards aboriginal Australians. But mainly because they couldn't handle or understand a conversation that while uncomfortable for them, is a tragic and real necessity for someone like Goodes. Then tribalism kicked in people started booing him because everyone else was and retrospectively performed mental gymnastics to come up with reasons why they did join in.

Like other people have said, the booing stemmed from racial elements, still has a dark racial undertone and is deeply upsetting for the indigenous AFL community as well as Goodes and his family. Initially I'm willing to give many a free pass for getting caught up in the tribalism. That's a lot of what footy is about. But at this point, if you join in, you're overtly racist, subtly racist, or just not very bright. The latter contingent probably constitutes the majority, but why would you even want to be associated with it at this point?

I need some time to digest this post, but that is a level of thought and discussion sadly missing on BigFooty all too often.

Bravo.

 

[MWPP]

Hate to break it to you, but she was singled out because she was the one who used the term ape. Do you really think he, in that split second, heard what was said, decided it was a young girl and said that's an easy target to make a stance against?

The reference to racism in Australia "Racism has a face. It's a 13-year-old girl." Is not a reference to her being a deliberate racist, it is a reference to the fact that we live in a society where a 13 year old has no concept that the term ape used against a person of colour is not acceptable. This is highlighted by the following statements he made immediately after. "People need to get around her. She's 13, she's uneducated." "I've got no doubt in my mind she's got no idea what she was calling me last night." "It's not a witch hunt. I don't want people to go after this girl." Goodes urged restraint in the backlash against the girl.

Was Eddie, a rich, privileged grown up man, singled out that way when he used "King Kong" (and AFTER all of this happened) ? The girl made an innocent mistake . Like I said above, the rest of what he said was fine , but saying "Racism has a face, It's a 13 year old girl" and singling her out that way was wrong
It's people like Eddie who deserved to be singled out by people like Goodes. Why couldn't he pick on someone his own size?

 

[AliceCat]

My last post in this thread ...simply is this

I urge anyone who DOESNT THINK ITS RACIST to find an aboriginal person and ask them what they think of it.

I'm yet to hear of any aboriginal people who think it's not a racists overtones to it ....

They can't all be wrong

Well said...Its the same up here in Central Australia.

Our country would no doubt be a much better place if everyone had a good mate who was Indigenous. No doubt this thread would only be a couple pages long instead of this marathon discussion.

The amount of ignorance in this discussion is mind boggling!

 

[Illinois Nazi]

And you need to be able to select more than one option.

 

[NT.Thunder]

So disappointing to see that a game that can and has bridged the gap between indigenous and non indigenous Australians can just as quickly undo all that good work seemingly overnight.

There is not one party to blame in all this and shows just how ignorant, naive and the lack of understanding of all parties involved from supporters, the media and the AFL have.

I'm confused, I've no idea how we got to this and whilst I don't consider myself racist I somehow now feel racist because I don't like Adam Goodes.

 

[DrEvil_]

The issue is Goodes is LABELLING people as racists for "boo-ing" him, when the definition of "boo-ing" is basically disapproval.
Disapproval can happen for a huge range of issues, not just racism which is what is being thrown in your face.

If Goodes is right, lets say everyone are racists, then how come people do not "boo" other indigenous players? Cyril? Motlop? Hill?

Goodes needs to ask "why are you people booing me?" instead of pretty much publicly stating you're all racist.

People are going to react to a statement like that, and show displeasure.

Goodes never did that though. It's the likes of Robbo, Pridham, etc.

 

[kranky al]

A day of reading sheisse like this has really made me despair for my fellow aussies

Are we really this fn stupid?

 

[MWPP]

It's clearly a statement that racism is not just some 80 year old white male groaning about the coloured people next door, but rather that it could include a 13 year old girl who didn't know any better - which is exactly what the rest of the statement reflected.

Always read past the headlines.

The rest of the statement was about that. The first sentence wasn't (and reflects his personality)

 

[Medika_J]

There a quite a few indigenous Australians who have benefited from the colonial past so don't play that card with me.

What? In what way would that be? I do hope you're not going to say 'we gave them Western technology' or something equally revolting. Do you think there is a majority of young aboriginal Australians today who have the same options as non-indigenous Australians?

And what do you mean, don't play that card with me? Do you think this is some sort of points-scoring game? It doesn't occur to you that this is a hugely sensitive and painful topic?

Am I right in reading that you don't believe that white Australians think the past is less relevant to the future than indigenous australians. I refer to the colonial past.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. They should not consider it less relevant than aboriginal people.

In fact, if anything they should foreground it more, understanding that there are past atrocities to atone for, and until the horrors of the past are fully acknowledged by all Australians (they have not been) and genuine empathy is shown, as opposed to the disgusting callousness you refer to, no future incorporation of all the lived experiences of Australians, no true understanding of 'Australianess ' (as David Malouf termed it), will be possible.

 

[The_Wookie]

It's clearly a statement that racism is not just some 80 year old white male groaning about the coloured people next door, but rather that it could include a 13 year old girl who didn't know any better - which is exactly what the rest of the statement reflected.

Always read past the headlines.

I think some are no so certain that pointing her out on national tv, while in a live crowd of 60,000 people was the best way to handle it though. The man has acccess to runners, coaches, security, and can avail himself of a press conference immediately after a game - and make the same point.

 

[Furn2]

There's no stopping it now.

If you didn't boo him today you'll be booing him tomorrow because he needs his mum to fight his battles for him.

 

[Forward Press]

The rest of the statement was about that. The first sentence wasn't (and reflects his personality)

Why do you judge him by one sentence, and not the rest?

 

[Dacksaredown]

A day of reading sheisse like this has really made me despair for my fellow aussies

Are we really this fn stupid?

Yes. Don't go near Facebook if you don't want further confirmation.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

I already mentioned which bit I didn't like:
"Racism has a face. It's a 13-year-old girl."
I wish he had used a comment like that for Eddie instead.

Probably didn't because Eddie isn't a 13 year old girl, so it wouldn't have made sense.

 

[Dave]

I've been in two minds about this until tonight. After his ill-informed comments about my club earlier in the year I was all set to see him booed to high heaven. But I've changed my mind. Call me soft or pc if you will, but I've come to the belief that it's nothing more than bullying on a grand scale. Put aside for a moment that he is a footballer, a swans player, that he is indigenous. He is a person like you and me. He is someone's son, husband, father, brother, and from all accounts has been hurt badly by this. Ask yourself if you would be happy if it was happening to your child.

Are we as a community really saying that it's ok for us to keep doing something that is causing someone else to suffer? Are we really that inured against the feelings of others that we don't give a s**t? Does he stage? Yes. Is he a sook sometimes? yes. Does that excuse the constant booing by every teams fans? IMO no. I cannot think of another player who has been booed as incessantly in every away game they've played.

Time to put a stop to it.

 

[Sylvia Saint]

I live overseas but I see Adam Goodes is in the news again back home.

I think it's pretty simple. You should never boo a person for being Aboriginal. That's completely immoral and downright racist. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd imagine pretty much nobody does this in the case of Adam Goodes (those that do are in a very small minority). There are dozens of Aboriginal footballers in the AFL that never get booed, in fact many of them are amongst the most popular players in the league.

What you can do and should be able to do is boo an Aboriginal person if you think they're a flog. In the case of Adam Goodes, many people (including myself) consider him one. What's the problem here? How's it any different to booing Ballantyne, Wayne Carey, Stuart Broad, or any other of the many flogs that have played sport in this country? The colour of his skin is irrelevant.

I can't believe this has turned into a racism debate. Australia has gone PC-mad.

 

[Mr Magic]

So disappointing to see that a game that can and has bridged the gap between indigenous and non indigenous Australians can just as quickly undo all that good work seemingly overnight.

There is not one party to blame in all this and shows just how ignorant, naive and the lack of understanding of all parties involved from supporters, the media and the AFL have.

I'm confused, I've no idea how we got to this and whilst I don't consider myself racist I somehow now feel racist because I don't like Adam Goodes.

It is not about racism anymore.

It is about the elite versus the people!! Thats easier to identify with and the AFL head honchos and the media elite have provided the fuel!!!

 

[legend166]

I agree people should stop booing, for no reason. But those supporters of Goodes must also appreciate that if he does something dirty in a game the boos that follow him til the final siren are not racist, merely a byproduct of his dirty play just like we boo all who do something untoward, and as long as people understand like with all players that once the final siren goes it is all over.

Honestly who thinks this? Who are you talking to? You're making this up.

 

[hardon]

I'm yet to hear of any aboriginal people who think it's not a racists overtones to it ....They can't all be wrong

if all the booers said they aren't racists, does that mean they can't all be wrong either?

 

[Hardhat11]

Well said...Its the same up here in Central Australia.

Our country would no doubt be a much better place if everyone had a good mate who was Indigenous. No doubt this thread would only be a couple pages long instead of this marathon discussion.

The amount of ignorance in this discussion is mind boggling!

Yup

 

[ChampRevesby]

Ok I have some good news, Nevill in for Haddin!!!
WOOOOT

 

[MWPP]

Probably didn't because Eddie isn't a 13 year old girl, so it wouldn't have made sense.

Racism has a face would still have made sense, and Goodes didn't make any such comments like that, or single Eddie out in any way besides making a general comment about being "angry". In fact, Eddie's comments weren't talked about anywhere near as much as Goodes, and he didn't cop enough criticism for them.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

The sooner he retires the better.

Yeah! You should make a statement by not posting until he does.