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Opinion Having Reid, Tarrant, Brown and Keeffe in the same backline.

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Nicco_jj

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Apr 27, 2011
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So, I am wondering if we can fit Reid, Taz, Nate and Keeffe in the same back line.
I had thought this to be a sadly unrealistic concept until tonight when I put some thought in to it.

Can it be done EFFECTIVELY.... I say yes, it can.

This is how I see it looking:

B: Brown Keeffe Tarrant
HB: Toovey Reid Maxwell

Ways it would work (pros):
+ Brown and Tarrant can both play on smalls. Brown showed today that he can be versatile. His last opponent was Reiwoldt, who he beat, and now Crameri - who's a totally different breed of player - who he beat as well.
+ Tarrant could easily swing to be a third tall in forward line if structurally necessary.
+ Gives us greater options/back up if a forward or backman is injured; Taz, Reid, Keeffe, Brown could all Individually go forward or switch roles within the backline if needed.
+ I can't imagine the opposition would take many contested marks in their forward 50 with this set up.
+ im sure there would be other positives which I can't think of right now.

Problems and repercussions of using this backline:
- Back line would be slow at ground level. I think each of those "talls" are particularly good at ground level, however they are not as agile as Betts, Rioli, Garlett, etc. It would be a worry that opposition would just continually force the ball to ground and have their crumbing players kill us.
- There would not be much Rebound. Toovey is the best rebounder out of that back 6. Reid is actually pretty darn good though, now that I think of it. Maxwell is getting better. Brown and Taz are more Prestigiacomo types, but both have good foot skills, so who knows.
- Heath and Harry would be pushed to the wing. Is this negative? Not necessarily. In fact, Harry would probably stay in the back line as a loose player and he or Maxwell would have that role. The noticeable down side to having Heath or Harry permanently pushed to the wing is that it will push someone else out of the side. At the moment that's ok as we have Buckley and Seedsman who play similar roles who we could take out for Heath. However, will this be the case once other players start returning from injury? Thomas et al?

Now, that last point leads me to my other concern regarding that backline:
Can we play Goldsack in a side with those players? I want to say yes, but I am not sure. If he plays forward, like today, he might stay. But I just am not sure due to his height. Would we be too tall?


I'm sure there are other negatives and positives. Would like to get some opinions on the matter.

My want for this to possibly happen is due to the surprisingly fast development of Keeffe, now coupled with the successful return of N. Brown.

I do not want to stunt Keeffe's growth by sending him back to the 2's as soon as Tarrant and Reid are fit.
I will admit that I was a Keeffe basher. But from what I have seen in the last 3 weeks it seems that he has relished under the responsibility. He hasn't had Tarrant or Reid there to make him feel unsure of himself. He has done it his way and it's working. His kicking is also a massive asset.
I think that if he continued playing like he did last week/today in every game leading to Tarrant and Reid's return, and was put in to the 2's, that he would regress and would not be as confident if he returned. His confidence seems sky-high at present.

A summary of my views are:
1. Keeffe is in too good at present and has too much upside to drop for Tarrant or Reid.
2. Nathan Brown is a gun an a hugely capable athlete with superior aerobic ability. He must be grown further.
3. Reid is AA and is a lock in our team. Can shut down some of the best tall forwards and burn them just the same. Confidence was high after Richmond game.
4. Tarrant was described by Lance Franklin as the best defender he'd ever played on. Tarrant consistently keeps Buddy to 4 goals or less whereas Briwn has had 6 kicked in him by buddy twice from memory.
5. Goldsack is a utility and shouldn't be dropped.
6. Shaw is a lock.
7. Thomas is a lock.


Go.
 
Agree all 4 can play in the same team. But not in the same backline (unless match-ups specifically require it). ONe of them needs to play forward with Cloke (and Dawes). This will most likley be Tarrant (with Dawes playing second ruck), or Keeffe (playing forward and second ruck).

Sure Harry could play wing, but we have better wingmen. Same for Shaw. To put these guys onto a wing, you are taking time away from Sidey, Wellingham, Clarke, Beams.
 
IMO you cannot cater for injuries with talls. they are less likely to suffer soft tissue injuries, compared to the smalls/runners. therefore your suggestion puts too many talls on the field. the opposition are more likely to hurt us than us hurt them.

the battle to retain their spot is between keeffe & brown, and at present keeffe will probably win that battle, for several reasons. the main one is simply the upside he possesses, and the likelihood of resting ruckman needing minding. therefore brown could then be in a battle with dawes for a spot.

goldsack will lose out, and deservedly so. i support his position in our time of need at present, but his handling errors will keep finding him out.

tarrant must not be seen as a forward option. those days are behind him. he has become too much of an asset down back. along with reid & shaw he is a lock.
 

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I think only 3 of them can play in the same side at the one time and only 2 of them can play key position in defence which means that one of them has to play forward.
Nick Maxwell is perfect as the 3rd tall defender and asking him to play small is a bad move as he doesn't have the mobility to stay with speedy small forwards.

The good thing about this 'problem' is that Dawes absolutely sucks right now. He can't hold onto his marks and therefore I think when Tarrant returns from injury he should be played at full forward with Dawes taking the 3rd tall forward/backup ruck role.

Unfortunately for Keeffe (who has been in good form and done nothing wrong), I think he is the odd defender out when Reid gets back from injury.
 
How about managing game time for the players so we can give all four spells during the year. We are in an enviable position of having solid defensive stocks. So why play them all at the same time unless of course we are playing west coast and its dry.

I'd be looking to making sure they are all fresh come finals time.
 
tarrant must not be seen as a forward option. those days are behind him. he has become too much of an asset down back. along with reid & shaw he is a lock.

Disagree here. The thing with Tarrant is that he can mark a ball overhead which Dawes can't do. Therefore I think he will play forward this year to give Cloke a chop out, unless the opposition full forward is fast (like Buddy Franklin) in which he will be needed to play full back.
 
The problem with dropping Dawes to the magoo's is that he is playing the 2nd ruck/anvil role at the moment and if he goes out then you would have to play Wood to back-up Jolly. It has to be horses for courses as to who plays in the backline and will be dependent on the opposition for the upcoming game. I could definitely see all 4 of them playing against WCE because of their tall forward line. Any talk of moving Reid forward is crazy given he is definitely our number one defender.
 
Guys - just count yourselves lucky in that you have 4 people who can genuinely play KPD.

Down at the Hawks - Gibson and Stratton are undersized, Shoemaker still developing and Gilham is trying to make his way back from knee reco. In truth only the last 2 have true KPD height.

If Brown is surplus - you mind sending over to the hawks and we will play him?????
 
There's no way Brown is surplus and there's no way we can drop him for Tarrant on current form. First game back he towels up Crameri - he's excellent on the opposition's number one big man.

Brown, Reid, Keeffe all have to start at the moment when fit. Tarrant is more versatile so he fills needs as required and gets rested if there's no job for him. The body is getting older so we should be actively managing him for September. He can also go forward himself or he can play on a smaller forward. If one of Keeffe, Brown or Reid are either injured or getting carved up / lose form, Tarrant assumes their role.

I think the writing was on the wall yesterday. The Sack played forward to nullify Fletcher and Clarke got the run-with role with Stanton. Marty was outstanding and after several years without a tagger I think we may have found one. Which I think means Goldy misses out, unless Bucks wants to keep him in the forward line. Have to feel for the bloke, he works his backside off.

Assuming a full, fit list of backmen (imagine!) I'd be basing the backline on:

Tarrant / Shaw Brown Keeffe
Toovey Reid Maxwell / O'Brien

I think the tougher issue is the smaller defenders. Heater and Tooves are the best one on one defenders so they man up on the best small forwards and rely on their natural run to rebound. Bucks seems to like playing the extra man back so I'd have O'Brien and Maxwell rotating in that position. Maxwell's leadership is important (loved seeing him barking orders yesterday) and Harry clearly needs to play loose rather than one on one. Harry can play up the wings as a run and carry receiver, more so than Maxy. This is the stickiest part for me though - fitting both of them into the side effectively. Seedsman misses out to accommodate also.

As jd said, we should be grateful for having such a good problem.
 
Reid goes forward and plays at CHF and Dawes takes over Leigh Brown role, rucking then on a flank. Dawes got 14 possessions and played better than many have given credit for. All 4 talls will unbalance the defence.
 

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I'd say West Coast is about the only team we could play all 4 in the backline against.

No other contending team that I can think off has 4 forwards who are big enough for our big 4 to man up on.

There is one problem first, WE NEED TO GET THEM ALL FIT.;)
 
i really cant see reid, brown and keeffe playing in the same side. Tarrant can go forward with Cloke and Dawes (2nd ruck).

Only way i see this happening is if Reid goes forward, Cloke as second ruck and drop Dawes.
 
i really cant see reid, brown and keeffe playing in the same side. Tarrant can go forward with Cloke and Dawes (2nd ruck).

Only way i see this happening is if Reid goes forward, Cloke as second ruck and drop Dawes.

I would not put Cloke anywhere near the ruck. Best contested mark in the competetion - where do you think opposition are most scared of him - anywhere in the F60 (with his booming kick). As a Hawk I would love to see him in the ruck as he would be least dangerous there.

Keefe would be a better option as 2nd ruck considering his height????
 
I would not put Cloke anywhere near the ruck. Best contested mark in the competetion - where do you think opposition are most scared of him - anywhere in the F60 (with his booming kick). As a Hawk I would love to see him in the ruck as he would be least dangerous there.

Keefe would be a better option as 2nd ruck considering his height????

thats why i dont think it will happen (having Keeffe, Brown and Reid) Keeffe was tried as a forward last year and didnt work. even if he plays second ruck someone needs to be dropped. In any case unless if there is a matchup requirement i cannot see how we can fit Cloke, Dawes, Tarrant, Brown, Keeffe, Reid in the same side. that i believe is too top heavy.
 
I'd say West Coast is about the only team we could play all 4 in the backline against.

No other contending team that I can think off has 4 forwards who are big enough for our big 4 to man up on.

There is one problem first, WE NEED TO GET THEM ALL FIT.;)

yup...

and there are no prizes for winning the tallest AFL backline. I would love if we used these guys against Carlton.
 
there is no way they can all play in the same backline. in fact in reality there is only room for 2 of them in the backline, together with the mid sized defenders in maxwell and obrien. we desperately need a 3rd marking option up forward and tarrant could be a chance to settle into a forward pocket once fit to assume that role. keefe obviously is playing too well to be dropped, with his confidence up i reckon it is time to give him a crack at the 2nd ruck role once reid slots back into CHB. keefe has the size and the mobility, and has played some footy in the ruck at vfl level - he cuold easily be the next leigh brown type in our side. the sooner dawes is removed from ruck duties the better

with everyone fit, the back 6 should be

toovey n brown maxwell
obrien reid clarke

johnson and shaw will obviously spend some time down back, but i like the thought of shaw getting more time through the middle
 

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I would not put Cloke anywhere near the ruck. Best contested mark in the competetion - where do you think opposition are most scared of him - anywhere in the F60 (with his booming kick). As a Hawk I would love to see him in the ruck as he would be least dangerous there.

Keefe would be a better option as 2nd ruck considering his height????

I agree 100% on Cloke.
Keefe being developed in the Anvil mold also makes far more sense than Dawes.
Keefe is better below his knees and more mobile.

That said having an embarrassment of riches in the back half tall department bodes well for us.
No-one has to play every game.
Play them on a Horses for courses basis.
 
If we have Keefe, Brown, Reid & Tarrant in the same defence....we would be to top heavy.

Brown & Reid are a lock for CHB & FB.

Then a toss up between Tarrant & Keefe, I'd favour Keefe due to his height, skills and having the younger body.
 
No, no, no - they are all very good, but we will look like our VFL team. That is just too massive a team to put on the field.
 
Fantastic discussion. Great points.

I think people are being too harsh on Dawes though.

The set up which has been suggested that I like most is Reid, Keeffe and Brown back; Tarrabt taking the FF position, with Dawes playing the Leigh Brown role and resting at the flank or fwd pocket.
His rucking is getting better!
 
The low opinion so many have of Dawes amazes me. His only weakness is his overhead marking. In every other respect, his game is not just good, its outstanding. His marking is at a low point, but I ascribe this to confidence, unless the hand injury last year has actually reduced his hand strength. I expect his marking to come back to 2010 levels, which is easily good enough.
Do the critics not notice his desperate attacks on the ball and its posessor anytime it is near him? So many times, he clears the way for teammates, or feeds to them in Luke Ball fashion. He is not Cloke, and should not be expected to be. They do different jobs.
 
I think this might be Tarrants last year - so keep playing Keefe to gain experience.. Need mobility down back and can only get that with Shaw & O'Brien... question then remains - is Toovey just about finished? I reckon he is flying under the radar, got moved easily by the dud Davey, so could be the one that falls out?

For me

Tarrant - Brown - Shaw
Maxwell - Reid - O'Brien

Keefe (the L.Brown) seeing he has built up some confidence now... for God sake he 204cm and taller & mobile than most ruckmen in the AFL...
 

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Opinion Having Reid, Tarrant, Brown and Keeffe in the same backline.

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