2012 draft

[Mr Magic]

this is my whole point. at the time tambling was seen by all as a blue chip investment while buddy wasnt. there were plenty of afl pundits saying tambling was an absolute gun. but as i said for whatever reason he just didnt make it. was it the selection or the development at fault? who knows but i guess im saying your trying to use a previous draft after we know how it went to fwd predict how we should do this years draft when there is so many variables that go into it. as to the vlas or grundy i would take either but if grundy is available i would take him but i dont no shit about and will rely on those that do.

But this is what I am saying, because of the success of Brisbane etc.. there were valid reasons from the astute that he may not be a gun and was a risk. So the the time there were reasons for the astute to not follow the sheep but ignore due to body size. Look at the body size of the Essendon teams under Sheedy regarding height , Caracella, blumfield etc... where getting taller, marshmellow comments as well as the big Brisbane teams. Many should have seen Tambling was a risk so pick 4 no, pick 10 maybe or for us 12. At that time obviously we were not astute, case in point.

Lets bring this forward, Grundy as a physical prospect has virtually no flaws as a ruck prospect, Vlastuin as a inside mid regarding pace and atheletic ability does. Mitchell is a very good player for the Hawks but there are body reasons why Judd is a better clearance player.

You cannot add 10 cm to a player no matter how hard you try and develop them or what there leadership is likewise with pace etc..

 

[theflea]

But this is what I am saying, because of the success of Brisbane etc.. there were valid reasons from the astute that he may not be a gun and was a risk. So the the time there were reasons for the astute to not follow the sheep but ignore due to body size. Look at the body size of the Essendon teams under Sheedy regarding height , Caracella, blumfield etc... where getting taller, marshmellow comments as well as the big Brisbane teams. Many should have seen Tambling was a risk so pick 4 no, pick 10 maybe or for us 12. At that time obviously we were not astute, case in point.

Lets bring this forward, Grundy as a physical prospect has virtually no flaws as a ruck prospect, Vlastuin as a inside mid regarding pace and atheletic ability does. Mitchell is a very good player for the Hawks but there are reasons why Judd is a better clearance player

no i disagree that the midfield of the lions were big from the start. all of voss,black and co still had to grow up and fill out. i dont know anyone who at the time thought that tambling was a risk. i do understand your pov but i just dont agree.

ps i think mitchell is on par with judd as a clearance player but its just that judd does everything else better, is the reason he is a better player.

 

[tigs2010]

Lets bring this forward, Grundy as a physical prospect has virtually no flaws as a ruck prospect, Vlastuin as a inside mid regarding pace and atheletic ability does. Mitchell is a very good player for the Hawks but there are body reasons why Judd is a better clearance player.

You cannot add 10 cm to a player no matter how hard you try and develop them or what there leadership is likewise with pace etc..

Huh? I call bull.

 

[Mr Magic]

Huh? I call bull.

what flaws then??? apparently he has a good leap better than Vickery happy to learn more, he certainly has a robust strong frame. He would have stronger legs than Vickery and probably a stronger core and for a ruckman shows great balance. For someone with a powerful frame he has very good tap work apparently already

 

[Mr Magic]

no i disagree that the midfield of the lions were big from the start. all of voss,black and co still had to grow up and fill out. i dont know anyone who at the time thought that tambling was a risk. i do understand your pov but i just dont agree.

ps i think mitchell is on par with judd as a clearance player but its just that judd does everything else better, is the reason he is a better player.

Mitchell is a very good player but because of Judds pace and height he can clear the ball away against better opposition in ways Mitchell cannot , Mitchell better kick and very good both guns but I think you know what I mean. Put it this way it is easier for the Swans to nulify Mitchell than Judd in a GF at a clearance in general in terms of match ups

Furthermore, there are types that are more likely to fill out than others. Also some I have heard look at getting players slightly overweight and trimming them down. The trick is picking the right players for each

 

[tigs2010]

what flaws then??? apparently he has a good leap better than Vickery happy to learn more, he certainly has a robust strong frame. He would have stronger legs than Vickery and probably a stronger core and for a ruckman shows great balance. For someone with a powerful frame he has very good tap work apparently already

Athletically he looks good and he's agressive but he still needs to develop his football smarts and get a lot more involved around the ground to be the force he could potentially be. He's super promising and a potential star but to say he has no flaws is incorrect. I also want to see how he goes up forward when he's not 3 foot taller than his opposition. But he is developing this area nicely and looks good at ground level.

 

[Mr Magic]

Athletically he looks good and he's agressive but he still needs to develop his football smarts and get a lot more involved around the ground to be the force he could potentially be. He's super promising and a potential star but to say he has no flaws is incorrect. I also want to see how he goes up forward when he's not 3 foot taller than his opposition. But he is developing this area nicely and looks good at ground level.

when I was referring to flaws I was referring to the physical, you would hope the rest can be developed

 

[tigs2010]

when I was referring to flaws I was referring to the physical, you would hope the rest can be developed

Fair enough. But you gotta base a recruiting decision on football ability first and foremost. Vlastuin's physical limitations are overstated IMO. He's not lightning fast but he is adequate especially for an inside midfielder. From what I've seen he has shown to have a good leap too and he is already a fantastic size so won't need years in the gym.

 

[Tigerbob]

Athletically he looks good and he's agressive but he still needs to develop his football smarts and get a lot more involved around the ground to be the force he could potentially be. He's super promising and a potential star but to say he has no flaws is incorrect. I also want to see how he goes up forward when he's not 3 foot taller than his opposition. But he is developing this area nicely and looks good at ground level.

He is 202cm. He will be a lot taller than any of his opposition even at AFL level. So that won't be an issue!

 

[tigs2010]

He is 202cm. He will be a lot taller than any of his opposition even at AFL level. So that won't be an issue!

Yer but it's likely to only be 1 foot rather than 3.

 

[tigs2010]

He is 202cm. He will be a lot taller than any of his opposition even at AFL level. So that won't be an issue!

Where do you see Taylor Hine fitting in? Were you scouting back when he was at Calder?

 

[theflea]

Mitchell is a very good player but because of Judds pace and height he can clear the ball away against better opposition in ways Mitchell cannot , Mitchell better kick and very good both guns but I think you know what I mean. Put it this way it is easier for the Swans to nulify Mitchell than Judd in a GF at a clearance in general in terms of match ups

Furthermore, there are types that are more likely to fill out than others. Also some I have heard look at getting players slightly overweight and trimming them down. The trick is picking the right players for each

i do know what you mean, of course judd is a more complete player but mitchell imo is on par or better at just clearances whether by hand or foot.

 

[Tigerbob]

Where do you see Taylor Hine fitting in? Were you scouting back when he was at Calder?

Didn't have a lot to do with him. He has obviously got some interest, I heard something but I forget which club now.

I remember being impressed by him in a game against Sydney from memory. But I don't know enough about him to comment mate.

 

[Mr Magic]

Fair enough. But you gotta base a recruiting decision on football ability first and foremost. Vlastuin's physical limitations are overstated IMO. He's not lightning fast but he is adequate especially for an inside midfielder. From what I've seen he has shown to have a good leap too and he is already a fantastic size so won't need years in the gym.

I think he will be a very good player , I like his leap and marking to, I am not sure he will be as effective against the best in the middle though when the heat is on though

 

[tigs2010]

Didn't have a lot to do with him. He has obviously got some interest, I heard something but I forget which club now.

I remember being impressed by him in a game against Sydney from memory. But I don't know enough about him to comment mate.

No worries. Speaking to Sunny on the Suns board he thinks his future is as an inside mid and he has some speed. 184cm/75kg but looks more solid than that. Not sure on his kicking. Have a feeling that could be the knock. If not, can't see why we wouldn;t have a crack.

 

[Mr Magic]

i do know what you mean, of course judd is a more complete player but mitchell imo is on par or better at just clearances whether by hand or foot.

Not sure about that, Mitchell is more a crumber in the ruck scenario whereas Judds strengths are his reach and bursts imo. Mitchells dual side is superior clearly but Judd isn't spectacular overhead either, neither are flawless despite their heroics

 

[OnTheFool]

From the horses mouth... Taylor Garner thinks he will go between pick 16-20. Not sure if he is being modest or genuine though.

To be honest i'd be pretty upset if the tigers took him at 9. Would much prefer Vlas, McCrae or Grundy

 

[Tortured Tiger]

He is 202cm. He will be a lot taller than any of his opposition even at AFL level. So that won't be an issue!

There are many reasons why I would like the Tigers to draft Grundy, but one of the most intriguing outcomes could be the impact his recruitment would have on Tyrone Vickery. IMHO, TV seems to have been a bit too comfortable at times as he knows there hasn't been any competition for his spot in the team. However, somebody like Grundy coming along should stir him into action and his improvement could be another bonus if we could land the big South Australian.

 

[sregit]

From the horses mouth... Taylor Garner thinks he will go between pick 16-20. Not sure if he is being modest or genuine though.

To be honest i'd be pretty upset if the tigers took him at 9. Would much prefer Vlas, McCrae or Grundy

I would like to to state I'd opt for Grundy if given the choice as I believe we do not have enough quality talls, however, what is all the Vlas love here? I have watched the championships and a few TAC games and can not understand why others think he is the standout. Players like McCrae, Menzel , O'Rouke and few others not only seem to be greater accumulators of the ball but also have far more Xfactor to them. These blokes all are just as good inside as Vlas and impact on the scoreboard also. Vlas is a work horse. its time we got a little bling in our side. Vlas is hard at it and a good player but has less upside as he's fully developed physically. Love to get him but others appeal more. It's all just opinion, however, I feel that there are people who have pushed the Vlastuin for Richmond line so hard that others who have never seen half of these kids other than the highlight video, are also nodding their heads in agreement. If not Grundy and they are available, then Menzel or McCrae IMO.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Contested footy possessions can be misleading at TAC level. Plenty of recruiters prefer loose ball getters as it generally signifies a high workrate

1. Grundy
2. Macrae
3. Vlas
4. O'Rourke
5. Garner

For mine

 

[UpTheGuts]

GWS eye Plowman at 3: http://m.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-...-in-at-the-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1226516135805

Landsberger predicts:

Whitfield
Toumpas
Plowman
Wines
O'Rourke
Menzel

Then, it's Port's call.....

 

[THE_GUN]

GWS eye Plowman at 3: http://m.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-...-in-at-the-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1226516135805

lol thats exactly where i took Plowman in the Mock draft - I keep telling them they are wasting $600k on silvagni

Id do it for $100k

 

[tigs2010]

GWS eye Plowman at 3: http://m.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-...-in-at-the-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1226516135805

Landsberger predicts:

Whitfield
Toumpas
Plowman
Wines
O'Rourke
Menzel

Then, it's Port's call.....

Soooooooo much talent left by then.

 

[_DBF_]

Soooooooo much talent left by then.

Who needs Garlett at 9. When we can take Irra at 43. I really, really, really want Irra.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Quigley's (very long) assessment of Grundy:

Quite simply Grundy is the best and most complete junior ruckman that I have seen. In Natanui you could see the sublime talent but it was not there yet. With Grundy it is all on show and if GWS overlook him they have rocks in their heads. This is all the more impressive because he is a late comer to the game only crossing over from basketball as a 16 year old.

Grundy was impressive last year as a bottom aged player albeit as a bit of a beanpole. That has changed a great deal in the last twelve months. He has stacked on the weight and is a powerful, mature athlete now. He will continue to develop physically but he does not need to put on nearly as much weight as most young ruck prospects. He already has a powerful lower half which he uses to great effect during games. Unlike a lot of late basketball converts Grundy seems to thrive on the physical aspects of the game and he loves getting in there and throwing his weight around. In basketball terms he is more of a Howard style player rather than a Durant type. In AFL terms I expect him to become a Mumford style power ruck.

At junior level, Grundy was simply too big and too powerful for those he came up against this year. It was a poor year for ruck prospects and the difference between he and his closest competition was vast. Last year though as a skinny 17 year old he still did very well in the ruck contest against stronger opposition. He controls his taps very well and has excellent knowledge of where his mids are around him. He had a series of moves with the SA mids and executed many of them very well. He seemed to have a great understanding with Kennedy who benefited a great deal from the dominance Grundy was able to exert in the ruck. He is a little unusual with a two armed jumping style but it is effective and he gets good height on his jumps. He is a right handed tapper but is also a fan of the two hander which he brings out a few times each game.

In addition to being excellent in the ruck itself, Grundy is also very dangerous up forward and he is a regular multiple goal kicker. He uses his strength and height to great effect and if he weren’t going to be a ruck he could be a nice FF prospect. He moves well around the forward 50 and when he establishes position he is immovable by most KPDs. Grundy recovers quickly in contested situations and is surprisingly adept with the ball on the deck and has pretty clean and quick hands for such a big guy. He is a reasonably reliable shot for goal and can finish the opportunities he is given. There is a more than reasonable chance that Grundy could become a throwback to the old style goal-kicking ruckman like Paul Salmon kicking 30 or more goals a year. He is not particularly quick on an extended lead but on short leads he is hard to contain especially when he gets a good push off.

Contested marking is a feature of Grundy’s game no matter where he is on the field. He is adept at coming up with a stretch mark up forward, drifting in from the side through the middle of the park and dropping back into the hole in front of the leading forward down back. His hands are very soft and he absorbs contact without letting it affect his marking ability. He is a good judge of the ball in the air and takes it at a point where few non-rucks can reach. He tested very well in the running leap at the Combine and this combined with his height allows him to get up above virtually anyone.

Around the ground, Grundy is improving and would be pretty good for and under 18. His endurance is solid and he gets to contests and where he is needed. He does link up pretty well and his marking allows him to be a bail out option if needed. Skills wise he is a lot better than you expect of someone with a big with as little experience as he has. He usually plays within himself with his kicks going short to medium distance most often and at this range he tends not to overhit the ball and has nice feel on the kicks. When he goes for distance his technique changes a fair bit with him having a higher, two handed ball drop and leaning back when he punches it. More often than not though, when he goes for it it gets where he wants it to go so it’s hard to complain.

Apparently Grundy is not the brightest star in the night sky but that has not prevented many from enjoying long AFL careers (and in the media for that matter). He does seem coachable though and his development over the last couple of years is a testament to that. It looks like he listens to what his coaches want from him and then works hard to achieve that. He has quickly closed holes in his game and if he continues to do that he will be a multiple AA before the end of his career.