Preview 2022 Rd 20 Carlton vs Adelaide Saturday July 30 7:30PM @ Adelaide Oval - Team Post #586

[katmanblue]

Of course it's not about milestones. If he is having his load managed, then great. That's not what they said though.

You don't really expect football clubs to be honest in their communications, do you?

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[Murphkreuzmitch]

JSOS.

If flat out dropped is the call then that's disappointing, has been competing well outside his weight class and deserves a chance to play his true position before finals.

If managed then fair enough, even managing as the sub I don't mind, as it hedges our bets, we have a multi position type player in case, and hopefully with no injuries he gets the freshen up he needs

I don't think he makes us worse even in the Wet if he took any of Owies Durdins or Motlops spots.

Hopefully Pitto gives our mids plenty of first use, we have looked a very different side withouthim. TDK and Jack did great jobs but are not replacements for a maturity built ruckmen.

 

[Ash24]

JSOS has been carrying a leg injury for at least a month now, playing him as medi-sub reduces his load significantly.

They said he was omitted and people now have a problem. If they said he was managed (and then is medi-sub) then people will also have a problem.

At the end of the day a single word doesn't matter, the MC made the right call regardless.

 

[norway blue]

He deserves a rest. Is that what we have done though?

Yes I think so Dark.


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[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think the messaging (omitted) is just fine if he then is nominated as a sub, that to me is a better transition from the wording to actions. If he isn't the sub, I ain't losing sleep as I believe he will return next week and will be a lock for finals

Perhaps all that matters is how it has been handled by the club and Jack behind closed doors

Omitted means, not considered a part of our best 22 this week. If they are managing his time, but he is still named sub, we all know that many subs don't get on the field or do for limited game time. He has still been managed regardless.

They said Honey was being managed and he is named in the emergencies as well. I mean, if that doesn't prove the point ...

 

[BigFrizz36]

The only thing that stands between us and victory, is their spiritual leader, all round philanthropist and president of the SA anti Racism Board.
View attachment 1458922

Think that you may have accidentally included the word anti.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes I think so Dark.


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Then they should say that. There are a lot of supporters who don't think he deserves to be dropped, so if he wasn't, why would the club fire up a section of their base needlessly?

 

[katmanblue]

Again, I look at comments here and on facebook and right off the bat, people are up in arms about JSOS being dropped. Those saying it doesn't matter how they word it are missing something here. The club have been getting a lot right but this is not great fan engagement is it?

Just because we are flying in so many ways, it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge when something isn't handled right.

Omitted, Rested, Managed, Injured. 3 of those everybody says 'fair enough'. The other one we wonder what the coaches are seeing that we aren't and we wonder why a player we all see as all guts and all heart is not rated internally as much as we rate him. But at least, we know what to think.

What if the coach isn't happy with some of his efforts as reported a above by Earl Smother? Do you then want the club to come out and detail the reasons why? Of course not.

People are jumping to conclusions as to the reason he's not playing this week.

If it says ommited, then I'd suggest there's a reason for it.

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[The Old Dark Navy's]

You don't really expect football clubs to be honest in their communications, do you?

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Yeah, but that's just me. Nothing to be gained by doing otherwise in this situation.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Made some phone calls.

Turns out Vossy's son slept with Jack's sister, words were exchanged, tempers flared, the Princes Park ground staff have spent half the day filling in a significant crater that may or may not have been shaped like Ben Silvagni (who has been hiding in the storage shed for years just waiting for an opportunity to defend his family's honour).

Long story short, Jack will be playing for Tassie next year but the club felt that "Omitted" would keep things quiet for the time being.

 

[Blues_1864]

With Pittonet returning, it was very unlikely that both De Koning and Silvagni would stay in the 22. I guess, with the upcoming opposition, I would have omitted De Koning this week and Silvagni next week, but it is what it is. I myself like the things Silvagni is doing, but it is conceivable that, like Dow, he is not doing what the coaches want him to do.

Structurally, people talk about Voss's preferences, but he hasn't selected all three in the same side since Round 3, when Hawthorn nearly overran us. Two subsequent opportunities (Rounds 5 and 6) were declined: De Koning was omitted both times, although on the second occasion he came in when Silvagni was a late out.

Whatever he might have thought at the very start of the season, it is pretty clear that Voss won't select all three of those talls, unless the stars align in terms of opposition match-ups (Brisbane, for example, are very tall). It is consistent with how he has picked the side since Round 7: defensive run has been a non-negotiable.

 

[Jeremias]

2 x best 22 players return to the side. Welcome back fellas.

Honey maybe a bit unlucky but it was either him or Mots making way for Owies.

The uproar re: Jack is a bit over the top IMO. Mountain out of a molehill and all that.

Make no mistake this is giving Jack a rest in the lead up to finals. He's been terrific this year but has looked very sore at times over the past month. With Pitto back we can now give him a bit of a rest.

I expect us to do similarly with TDK over the next few weeks. He's carried a massive workload in Pitto's absence and has done exceptionally well. A fit and refreshed Pittonet, TDK and Jack come September will be a massive bonus.

Jack 'omitted' isn't any more of a head scratcher than Kennedy named on a wing. Every week there are quirks in team sheets across the competition. We named Armfield at CHB for the best part of a decade FFS.

It's a complete non-issue unless they haven't been transparent with Jack, and I'm sure they will have been.

Perfect changes. Bounce the ball FFS.

Edit: Expecting Jack to be named as sub anyway. Not something I necessarily agree with because if you're going to rest him, actually rest him - knowing our luck hell be on inside 5 minutes.

 

[Arr0w]

Omitted means, not considered a part of our best 22 this week. If they are managing his time, but he is still named sub, we all know that many subs don't get on the field or do for limited game time. He has still been managed regardless.

They said Honey was being managed and he is named in the emergencies as well. I mean, if that doesn't prove the point ...

And someone mentioned that Jack didn't want it listed as "managed". Would that be a valid reason for the wording the club used?

 

[gbatman]

I get it structurally, but Jack as an omission after all he has done and nearing his 100th game ... they did him dirty.

I'd wanna hear the club address this.

This is the change in culture at our club from a club, changing back to a very ruthless and extremely competitive team. Change in quality as well and list depth.

I like Silvagni, he's a good player, a smart player who plays the game the right way but team comes first. Winning games and picking your best team comes first and picking a team based on structure and performance is important to being successful.

With Silvagni, if his form is 100% he probably makes our best side. If it drops 5% or 10% he probably doesn't and that goes for a lot of our players. Playing well won't necessarily keep you in the team if there is someone who can probably play better and we have a talented list.

We don't give players games anymore. We don't play players on effort alone, performance comes into it. We are playing to win and if they think we are too tall with Silvagni and Dekoning and DeKoning is a better option then that's how we line up.

The reality is that his team is a good one but you have Marchbank and Williams to come back in and that means it's Plowman who has been very good and Newman who has been very good to miss if they do. They are just better players. There is Hewett to come back in which means one of the three wingers goes out, Setterfield, O'Brien and Cottrell and if their form holds up none of them deserve to go out. There are going to be many more harsh calls to come, enjoy the ride though because that means this team is gearing up to go up a level.

IMO Silvagni will be the Sub. Ideal player for it.

It is somewhat of a romantic thing to want Silvagni in the side, he's a very likable player, he's good quality, he plays the right way and we have enjoyed watching his family play for us. SOS was my favourite player so there is a soft spot there for me. He's as Carlton as you get. End of the day it counts for little. He will get his 100 games, maybe this year or the next but he will get it. He may end up playing in a premiership for us. But nearly every premiership there is someone who you would love to see win one and deserve one to miss out. Nathan Jones Bob Murphy etc. It's extremely hard to win that flag I tell you that!

It's a different Carlton we are seeing, we should be excited, not annoyed.

 

[Blue train 28]

Like the pittont in and what it offers to our mids.
I think silvagni would be in the best 22 but I understand it is hard to play him with TDK and pittont. One is always going to miss out it was happening earlier in the year with TDK playing reserves before pitto went down. The selection committee must not like to go to big

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Come on mate. Everybody knows that Jack has been beat up this year and been a hell of a warrior. Almost nobody would question him being managed when we have our full complement of talls back. That is massive straw man for mine.

If he was omitted, yeah there are questions and rightly so. It is a slap in the face for him, although for structural reasons, I can see how he might not fit.

Player not being selected isn't one of the options. Omitted, rested, managed or injured.

Don't make up hysterical reactions on behalf of others. There would be one or two at most who are that conspiratorial.

Just so I understand.

1. You have a problem with Jack being (the term) "omitted"?
2. What happens if he is named sub, is there still a problem?

 

[thebluenewdeal]

Not really. He has done a fantastic job in the circumstances but has got well beaten in the ruck most weeks and got completely smashed a number of times. I wouldn't call that earning the right to be no.1.

Who has completely smashed him in the last 2 months? I can’t remember the last time he’s been smashed.. maybe against the saints but that was pretty high mountain to climb against Ryder and Marshall.

 

[Blue Chip Pass]

What a storm in a teacup.

I’m sure as many others has mentioned we’re avoiding the optics of listing Jack as managed and then in the next breath picking him as a sub when he’s supposed to be rested.

We’re a professional football club and I’m sure the team look at it as a “match day 23” and Jack will be fully across what the MC has in mind.
It’s irrelevant for them to convey that to us.

In a perfect world sub doesn’t get used and Jack gets a much deserved rest.

Wouldn’t be surprised if TDK goes out for Jack next week so he can get a spell as well.

Great to have Pitto back.

Great response and summary. My sentiments exactly. Cannot believe the melts.
Just focus on the game and winning FFS.

 

[myblueroan]

Maybe they are planning to get him to 100 on GF Day.

Nail on head ODN.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What if the coach isn't happy with some of his efforts as reported a above by Earl Smother? Do you then want the club to come out and detail the reasons why? Of course not.

People are jumping to conclusions as to the reason he's not playing this week.

If it says ommited, then I'd suggest there's a reason for it.

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I've already addressed that previously.

If he was dropped, then supporters are allowed to have a view on that. Dismissing posters by saying that he wasn't dropped and the wording doesn't matter, doesn't really cut it.

My view is that I can see how JSOS might not fit into a structure with 2 ruckmen, 2 key forwards and 3 key backs. He is a utility player who isn't quick so he relies on playing as a 3rd forward or a 2nd ruck, or previously as a big bodied mid. We are covered for mids at the moment and you can't mess with our system. He's not a winger where we have room for improvement, not a mercurial half forward or small forward. He could be our 10th best player but if those ahead of him have filled all of the positions he plays, our 10th best player can be 23rd man. I get how structure works.

However, we can't say he is our 23rd man right now, because we are trying to work out if Pitto and TDK can co-exist in the same team. We are experimenting. TDK was dropped prior to Pitto going down. We want TDK to work as a 2nd ruck/forward so JSOS is being sacrificed. It's not exactly fair. I mean, we could have dropped TDK and kept JSOS but we have effectively rewarded TDK for his recent work, while not doing the same for JSOS.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Any way you look at it - omitting Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

is one of the most brutal selection moves in many many years at Carlton.

I can't remember anything like it.

I'd say he's listed as omitted and not rested because he will be the sub.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What a storm in a teacup.

I’m sure as many others has mentioned we’re avoiding the optics of listing Jack as managed and then in the next breath picking him as a sub when he’s supposed to be rested.

We’re a professional football club and I’m sure the team look at it as a “match day 23” and Jack will be fully across what the MC has in mind.
It’s irrelevant for them to convey that to us.

In a perfect world sub doesn’t get used and Jack gets a much deserved rest.

Wouldn’t be surprised if TDK goes out for Jack next week so he can get a spell as well.

Great to have Pitto back.

The optics of Jack being dropped are worse than the optics of him being managed but potentially being used as a sub.

 

[gbatman]

Silvagni definitely omitted, he's named as an emergency.

 

[Bell Ringer]

Them ...





IN: Worrell

OUT: Doedee (injured)

"Mitchinge" sounds like the name of a town in the Adelaide Hills.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

At least SOS has a reason to be genuinely grumpy now..