Play Nice 2023 Non AFL (or lower league) Sports Industry Discussion

[The_Wookie]

Hi guys and welcome to another year in the only thread sanctioned to discuss other sports ion this board.

the advantage of a new thread is for some of you, your previous threadbans become irrelvant. Please do not make us reinstate them.

Please be respectful of each poster, whatever their opinion may be. Playing the man will not be tolerated.

Previous thread here

Play Nice - 2022 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings/Finance/Development thread

Hi guys, Its 2022! Welcome to another year. Time for a refresh and start again. Please note that this is not the place to persue personal code wars, and posts should be constructive and civil. If coming here from other forums, please note that this is primarily an Australian Football forum...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks

Wookie

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[Bjo187]

Ahh now I see why they inflated that titans one, wanted to announce a record so probably needed to bump it up a bit.

The Educator I agree, these stadiums hold 30k and don't look even 1/3rd full but are posting crowds of 15k, it's interesting.

The daily telegraph ran an investigation on this about 10 years ago and found figures were being significantly fudged by sending people to the games to count patrons in the crowd, then referring to club ticket reports for particular games at the end of the year. They were finding massive discrepancies, seems to still be happening.

 

[The_Wookie]

Ahh now I see why they inflated that titans one, wanted to announce a record so probably needed to bump it up a bit.

The Educator I agree, these stadiums hold 30k and don't look even 1/3rd full but are posting crowds of 15k, it's interesting.

The daily telegraph ran an investigation on this about 10 years ago and found figures were being significantly fudged by sending people to the games to count patrons in the crowd, then referring to club ticket reports for particular games at the end of the year. They were finding massive discrepancies, seems to still be happening.

That was ten years ago. At about the same time investigations BY THE AFL showed that we were fudging our particpation data in NSW. I dont believe either thing happens intentionally now.

I do think theres an issue with GWS/Suns memberships and gate reports. There might be with others in other codes, but i cant get financials to compare it with for ssome like Manly and Gold Coast.

 

[The Educator]

Ahh now I see why they inflated that titans one, wanted to announce a record so probably needed to bump it up a bit.

The Educator I agree, these stadiums hold 30k and don't look even 1/3rd full but are posting crowds of 15k, it's interesting.

The daily telegraph ran an investigation on this about 10 years ago and found figures were being significantly fudged by sending people to the games to count patrons in the crowd, then referring to club ticket reports for particular games at the end of the year. They were finding massive discrepancies, seems to still be happening.

I doubt they are doing it so the league can get records. I just think, where credibility is at stake, the incentive to inflate crowd numbers.

What gets me is this obsession league and soccer fans have with the Giants and the Suns when half the NRL crowds and most A league crowds are, by the same analysis as is applied to Giants and Suns crowds, massively inflated.

So I am sure the Titans are bullshitting their crowds because they are worried about the Suns, the Eels and Wanderers are both bullshitting their crowds because, in part, the other one is....but probably lay off the AFL that has two of its 18 clubs in the "need to count creatively" category rather than the so called blue ribbon teams in the NRL and A league

 

[Bjo187]

That was ten years ago. At about the same time investigations BY THE AFL showed that we were fudging our particpation data in NSW. I dont believe either thing happens intentionally now.

I do think theres an issue with GWS/Suns memberships and gate reports. There might be with others in other codes, but i cant get financials to compare it with for ssome like Manly and Gold Coast.

The AFL investigated themselves? I wasn't talking about the AFL anyway and conceded the giants might have fudged some figures last year to save a bit of embarrassment in an expansion market. I actually find it staggering they don't change the camera to the side of the ground that shows actual people there, perception is everything for a newish club.

On the suns your own data shows they make some pretty impressive money off membership and attendance for a small club, was over 6 mill from memory.

I just flicked on the fox mini of the titans game and took some screen shots to prove my point, but for some reason they came out black. Worth having a look yourself, lucky to be 5k there imo, so yes they are likely still being fudged and as the educator said, they just so happened to come in 1k over the suns crowd which looked much bigger.

 

[The_Wookie]

The AFL investigated themselves? I wasn't talking about the AFL anyway and conceded the giants might have fudged some figures last year to save a bit of embarrassment in an expansion market. I actually find it staggering they don't change the camera to the side of the ground that shows actual people there, perception is everything for a newish club.

sigh. it was an example of nobody being perfect 10 years ago.

On the suns your own data shows they make some pretty impressive money off membership and attendance for a small club, was over 6 mill from memory.

Yes it somehow doubled in a year.

I just flicked on the fox mini of the titans game and took some screen shots to prove my point, but for some reason they came out black. Worth having a look yourself, lucky to be 5k there imo, so yes they are likely still being fudged and as the educator said, they just so happened to come in 1k over the suns crowd which looked much bigger.

I cant be bothered with the fudging accusation crap on either side. Maybe they are, maybe they arent. Im not there counting the crowd.

 

[Angus Young]

What gets me is this obsession league and soccer fans have with the Giants and the Suns when half the NRL crowds and most A league crowds are, by the same analysis as is applied to Giants and Suns crowds, massively inflated.

AFL makes them angry and upset.

 

[Aucklander]

AFL makes them angry and upset.

Thank goodness we don't see that here.

Great result for the NRL which should be celebrated.

Such a pity the Lions go head-to-head with the Broncos as I'd love to watch both games. The Warriors form should ensure a very good crowd in Auckland.

In further good news, my schedule allows me to get to the G on Saturday to watch the mighty Pies v Port.

 

[The Educator]

AFL makes them angry and upset.

I get that but I just don't get why they would direct their misery to inflated attendance numbers of two clubs in a 18 team competition that averages mid 30K attendances

 

[Bjo187]

sigh. it was an example of nobody being perfect 10 years ago.



Yes it somehow doubled in a year.

Well considering they had 2 of their biggest crowds in some time, plus sold out their corporate facilities for both those games last year, plus had their most successful year, i think it's believable.

I cant be bothered with the fudging accusation crap on either side. Maybe they are, maybe they arent. Im not there counting the crowd.

Well why are you accusing the suns of fudging then? I think it's a completely relevant argument, another case of you going on the defence any time the nrl is questioned though.

Also interesting to note as to your other point you argued with me on endlessly last year, the swans game rated really well into Sydney on Saturday night, because it was on 7 main. It rated better than the footy did into both Perth and Adelaide on the same night, despite it being a really crap one sided game on the gold coast. Maybe you can concede just one point occasionally, considering you like to contest every single point I make on this site, it would be refreshing.

 

[Kwality]

I doubt they are doing it so the league can get records. I just think, where credibility is at stake, the incentive to inflate crowd numbers.

What gets me is this obsession league and soccer fans have with the Giants and the Suns when half the NRL crowds and most A league crowds are, by the same analysis as is applied to Giants and Suns crowds, massively inflated.

So I am sure the Titans are bullshitting their crowds because they are worried about the Suns, the Eels and Wanderers are both bullshitting their crowds because, in part, the other one is....but probably lay off the AFL that has two of its 18 clubs in the "need to count creatively" category rather than the so called blue ribbon teams in the NRL and A league

same old ..... The_Wookie

 

[The Educator]

same old ..... The_Wookie

What? What's your problem dude?

 

[The_Wookie]

Well considering they had 2 of their biggest crowds in some time, plus sold out their corporate facilities for both those games last year, plus had their most successful year, i think it's believable.

Ive only been doing the financial stuff for the last decade or so. And i think it smells t high heaven. Im not doubting the figures, Im wondering what else is in there besides their AFL matches and memberships.

Well why are you accusing the suns of fudging then?

I didnt. I said thought there was an issue with how they are reporting numbers and revenue from it.

another case of you going on the defence any time the nrl is questioned though.

God forbid there should be a balanced argument.

Ill not warn you again about playing the man.

Also interesting to note as to your other point you argued with me on endlessly last year, the swans game rated really well into Sydney on Saturday night, because it was on 7 main.

if your definition of rating really well is 71,000...then sure.

hell I dont recall the argument at all.

It rated better than the footy did into both Perth and Adelaide on the same night, despite it being a really crap one sided game on the gold coast. Maybe you can concede just one point occasionally, considering you like to contest every single point I make on this site, it would be refreshing.

I dont even remember the argument or the context thereof.
And i dont care enough to go looking.

 

[The_Wookie]

What? What's your problem dude?

I could be wrong but I believe his problem is one that is rapidly becoming my problem here both personally and as a moderator.

This particular thread is for an even discussion on matters pertaining to other sports. It is not the place to personally attack or ridicule people who have a differing viewpoint because they see things in other sports that you might not.

My other particular problem as Moderator is the overtly hostile responses that this is eliciting from posters who appear to have become fairly recently active in the subforum.

Lets be clear, Im tired of the code wars. This thread and its forerunners exist because I recommended to the admin team when this subforum was founded that we have a discussion thread for civil discussion of other sports. Their preference was not to have such a thing.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[Bjo187]

Ive only been doing the financial stuff for the last decade or so. And i think it smells t high heaven. Im not doubting the figures, Im wondering what else is in there besides their AFL matches and memberships.

The only thing i can think is they might have included revenue from concerts too, due to operating metricon stadium. However the previous years were covid affected and the team was rubbish, so it would have had a decent jump anyway.

I didnt. I said thought there was an issue with how they are reporting numbers and revenue from it.



God forbid there should be a balanced argument.

Ill not warn you again about playing the man.

I don't think it's playing the man to point out your penchant to go on the defence of the NRL any time they are questioned, whilst not applying the same to leaguies bagging the AFL on their forum. Also, playing the man is following someone around on a forum and disputing every post they make.

if your definition of rating really well is 71,000...then sure.

It was a terrible game and they usually rate around the 20 or 30k mark on secondary channels. So over double on the main channel and better than w.a and s.a on the same night, i think it's good for that market.

hell I dont recall the argument at all.



I dont even remember the argument or the context thereof.
And i dont care enough to go looking.

Happy to post proof as i usually do to back up my point, but happy to let it go like i did with the previous 'shorter games rate higher' dispute from a few years ago. The one you now seem to agree with, which is good to see.

 

[Kwality]

I don't think it's playing the man to point out your penchant to go on the defence of the NRL any time they are questioned, whilst not applying the same to leaguies bagging the AFL on their forum.

Just go somewhere else not here. Maybe the other forum (not BF) you refer to, although it obviously gripes you, give it a miss ??

 

[The_Wookie]

The only thing i can think is they might have included revenue from concerts too, due to operating metricon stadium. However the previous years were covid affected and the team was rubbish, so it would have had a decent jump anyway.

Concerts, cricket, and christ knows what else. Im just not buying that they had a 102% increase in membership revenue.

I don't think it's playing the man to point out your penchant to go on the defence of the NRL any time they are questioned, whilst not applying the same to leaguies bagging the AFL on their forum. Also, playing the man is following someone around on a forum and disputing every post they make.

I disagree. And here at least, its my call as Mod.

And what i do or do not do on other forums is irrelevant.

Happy to post proof as i usually do to back up my point, but happy to let it go like i did with the previous 'shorter games rate higher' dispute from a few years ago. The one you now seem to agree with, which is good to see.

I dont actually agree with that, but Im not wanting to get into it.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[Our Game]

Ahh now I see why they inflated that titans one, wanted to announce a record so probably needed to bump it up a bit.

The Educator I agree, these stadiums hold 30k and don't look even 1/3rd full but are posting crowds of 15k, it's interesting.

The daily telegraph ran an investigation on this about 10 years ago and found figures were being significantly fudged by sending people to the games to count patrons in the crowd, then referring to club ticket reports for particular games at the end of the year. They were finding massive discrepancies, seems to still be happening.

There was no way there was 14,000 at the Titans match on the Gold Coast would lucky to be ten thousand!
The desperate fools on LU are raving the RL is running down the AFL.

Where? Memberships NO TV Ratings NO Sponsorship monies NO and Crowds NO!

 

[The_Wookie]

There was no way there was 14,000 at the Titans match on the Gold Coast would lucky to be ten thousand!
The desperate fools on LU are raving the RL is running down the AFL.

Where? Memberships NO TV Ratings NO Sponsorship monies NO and Crowds NO!

um tv ratings...probably

 

[The Educator]

I could be wrong but I believe his problem is one that is rapidly becoming my problem here both personally and as a moderator.

This particular thread is for an even discussion on matters pertaining to other sports. It is not the place to personally attack or ridicule people who have a differing viewpoint because they see things in other sports that you might not.

My other particular problem as Moderator is the overtly hostile responses that this is eliciting from posters who appear to have become fairly recently active in the subforum.

Lets be clear, Im tired of the code wars. This thread and its forerunners exist because I recommended to the admin team when this subforum was founded that we have a discussion thread for civil discussion of other sports. Their preference was not to have such a thing.

Fair enough, so highlighting the ridiculousness of NRL and soccer fans criticising Giants and Suns crowd counts is not OK?

I just found it strange, continuing with the theme of hypocrisy, that this guy would be in a position to complain given I am pretty sure he is the one that wants to remind everyone that AFL is not an international sport with every second post.

Anyway, best of luck setting a coherent and consistent standard for a "discussion of other sports" thread where any comparison with the AFL is considered "code wars"