Training 2023 Pre Season

[BrutThough]

Semi final in a year of 17 home and away games, reduced game times, no crowds, game hubs, teams not competing to their maximum potential.

This year set back us so far, more than you could ever imagine

We culled and brought in McKernan, Frawley etc and completely stopped developing our youth.

Our issue was more we didn't have a lot of young players from the 19 and 20 drafts more so then the few we had not getting opportunities to play.

 

[CursingFijian]

Look I'm no expert on curses but this StKilda curse seems legit IMO. An accursed curse even.
Somehow the club needs to improve it's joojoo or we'll be doomed to this forever.

If they cut me a budget of $60K for kava and a shaman I could try the old Fijian black magic to lift this curse. I'll post my venmo here, let's get it done Sainters.

 

[lewdogs]

Sharman
Bytel
Byrnes
Peris
Jones
Butler
Allison
Ross
Connelly
Cambell

All will be under the microscope

Butler is contracted to 2024 and will play for us for a long time after that I reckon.

 

[plugger66]

The cull wasn't the problem, its who we brought in was the issue.

We topped up, if we had of concentrated on youth then you may have been seeing them ready for AFL this season.

Isn’t the topic about hiw many list changes there could be? We topped up but they hardly played so I don’t really understand. Who should we have drafted or played from our list? Considering who was injured at the time and depth in certain areas those picks made sense as complete backup and they were used that way. I never get the problem getting certain back ups especially if you have made finals the previous year. Only about 34 players play every year so many are in the seconds all year anyway. Should we have delisted Campbell as he is pretty old and most likely back up?

 

[MordySaint]

Isn’t the topic about hiw many list changes there could be? We topped up but they hardly played so I don’t really understand. Who should we have drafted or played from our list? Considering who was injured at the time and depth in certain areas those picks made sense as complete backup and they were used that way. I never get the problem getting certain back ups especially if you have made finals the previous year. Only about 34 players play every year so many are in the seconds all year anyway. Should we have delisted Campbell as he is pretty old and most likely back up?

So we picked up Caminiti, Sharman and other gems in the rough lately. These picks are well outside your coveted draft picks, which I find so overrated.

This is the job of the recruiter.

We stopped looking and gave our money to retired veterans living off their past glory.

FYI if I see Campbell playing ahead of a fit Heath then I will spew.

 

[The Cobra]

How long can Peris stay cat B? 2 years?
He's not much of a footballer yet, but he has some serious pace. Real serious pace.

Agree he has pace & from my observations at training seems like a respectful lad who wants to learn BUT currently he struggles to get the ball and he is way off it skills wise - I want him to succeed but reckon he has a mountain to climb unfortunately.

 

[plugger66]

So we picked up Caminiti, Sharman and other gems in the rough lately. These picks are well outside your coveted draft picks, which I find so overrated.

This is the job of the recruiter.

We stopped looking and gave our money to retired veterans living off their past glory.

FYI if I see Campbell playing ahead of a fit Heath then I will spew.

Get ready to spew id say. Even heaths parents don’t think he is ready. As for your first point doesn’t that back up the point of the topic that you need to delist plenty each year? Money is completely overrated. You have to spend it. I’d rather give it to them than overpay players just to use it. As for stopping looking well I certainly can’t say I know that. Were the certain types we needed at the time taken by other clubs? I have no idea. I also have no idea if the 2 you mentioned will have any bearing on the future of our club. I hope they do but they haven’t yet. Young seems better than old until you realise nether are good enough. Was Sharman taken in the same year as the other 2 or were they a year earlier?

 

[The Cobra]

They aren’t allowed to train for 11 months a year. They do their own work but it’s not over top training. Boxers train nearly all year. It’s certainly swings and roundabouts. Misson has an excellent record with us previously and also Melbourne. That suggests it’s just bad luck.

Agree - its a contact sport and sometimes it’s just bad luck.

I was 15 metres away at training I think about 4 weeks ago during match sim when Membrey took a mark and landed a bit awkwardly. He got up gingerly, took the kick and then hobbled around for a minute or 2 and then went off. 5 minutes later he was running sprints around the boundary fine. I remember I wrote at the time it just seemed a minor tweak to the knee.

Now after the supposedly minor operation there is no date for his return. No way you can avoid this type of injury unless you want play touch footy!

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Hahahahahah gold
How goods that.

 

[MordySaint]

Get ready to spew id say. Even heaths parents don’t think he is ready. As for your first point doesn’t that back up the point of the topic that you need to delist plenty each year? Money is completely overrated. You have to spend it. I’d rather give it to them than overpay players just to use it. As for stopping looking well I certainly can’t say I know that. Were the certain types we needed at the time taken by other clubs? I have no idea. I also have no idea if the 2 you mentioned will have any bearing on the future of our club. I hope they do but they haven’t yet. Young seems better than old until you realise nether are good enough. Was Sharman taken in the same year as the other 2 or were they a year earlier?

Perception is more important, if you are going out picking up retired players who aren't even putting themselves up to be drafted. Then giving them games ahead of young players, then you have made your bed.

 

[bird_man]

It's not anything groundbreaking, 8-10 players leave every year.

Byrnes, Peris, Campbell, Connolly, Allison, Cordy, Stocker, Highmore are 8 that I could see go.

Then you've got uncertainty around NWM, Ross and Bytel who are all OOC.

Usually first ones in the door are the first ones out.

Everyone is just shooting the s**t at this point anyway, we're still months away from decisions.

We just signed Cordy on a 3 year deal as a free agent

Allison is still under contract too and I can’t see a lot of interested parties wanting to do a trade there

 

[plugger66]

Perception is more important, if you are going out picking up retired players who aren't even putting themselves up to be drafted. Then giving them games ahead of young players, then you have made your bed.

I’d agree if they weren’t there as complete back up. Pretty sure mckernan played early as arshall ad Ryder didn’t. Freaky played as complete back up and it was only a couple of games. Anyway I will say it again. The topic was on the amount of list changes we think we have. My answer is it’s hard enough to guess where you finish. It’s nearly impossible to guess the form of players with 23 games left. Mcjenzies family would have thought he wouldn’t be with us at the start of this year. Ross would also have been nearly certain to be on most lists.

 

[sunny3193]

No, it's normal. Funnily enough we turned over 11 players, higher than average, the year we made a semi final.

A little bit of statistical analysis on list dynamics will demonstrate that 8 changes is the norm, 6 and 11 changes are the outliers.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Are list sizes still less than they were? that should reduce the average turnover.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

If you’re happy to roll the dice on the fact we find a Dusty finishing ninth then go for it

We finish 9th put out some bad rumours about Harley Reid so no one picks him til our pick

 

[MordySaint]

A little bit of statistical analysis on list dynamics will demonstrate that 8 changes is the norm, 6 and 11 changes are the outliers.

Ryan Abbott (del)
Logan Austin (del)
Jack Bell (del)
Nathan Brown (ret)
Nick Hind (trd)
Doulton Langlands (del)
Jonathon Marsh (del)
Jack Mayo (del)
Dylan Roberton (ret)
Shane Savage (del)
Matthew Parker (del)
Ed Phillips (del)

Doulton Langlands our only young talent delisted, then again he's a rookie pick. The rest you could say where mature age draftees.

If there is anything that shows you our issues it's the delistings from 2020.

Retirements, delistings, trades - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

Then we doubled down the next year with a fresh set of top ups.

 

[plugger66]

Ryan Abbott (del)
Logan Austin (del)
Jack Bell (del)
Nathan Brown (ret)
Nick Hind (trd)
Doulton Langlands (del)
Jonathon Marsh (del)
Jack Mayo (del)
Dylan Roberton (ret)
Shane Savage (del)
Matthew Parker (del)
Ed Phillips (del)

Doulton Langlands our only young talent delisted, then again he's a rookie pick. The rest you could say where mature age draftees.

If there is anything that shows you our issues it's the delistings from 2020.

Retirements, delistings, trades - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

Then we doubled down the next year with a fresh set of top ups.

Come on that is just untrue unless you mean when delisted which is still untrue. A fair few on that list were drafted young. Hardly any mature aged draftees unless 23 is mature but I suppose they can only play about 10 years if good enough. Can’t believe we took wilkie ant such an age Are you going to whinge about trading for savage and roberton then. Think that was a salary cap reason. The topic is the numbers of players delisted. It’s not about who we draft after that. And you need mature aged backups for certain spots if you think the others are too young or not good enough. I notice there are no genuine mids in that group because you usually don’t need back ups. If your point is we delisted to many that year to replace them with failures then who should have we kept. If your point is about drafting it’s been done to death.

 

[ScrappyDo]

So we picked up Caminiti, Sharman and other gems in the rough lately. These picks are well outside your coveted draft picks, which I find so overrated.

This is the job of the recruiter.

We stopped looking and gave our money to retired veterans living off their past glory.

FYI if I see Campbell playing ahead of a fit Heath then I will spew.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ryan Abbott (del)
Logan Austin (del)
Jack Bell (del)
Nathan Brown (ret)
Nick Hind (trd)
Doulton Langlands (del)
Jonathon Marsh (del)
Jack Mayo (del)
Dylan Roberton (ret)
Shane Savage (del)
Matthew Parker (del)
Ed Phillips (del)

Doulton Langlands our only young talent delisted, then again he's a rookie pick. The rest you could say where mature age draftees.

If there is anything that shows you our issues it's the delistings from 2020.

Retirements, delistings, trades - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

Then we doubled down the next year with a fresh set of top ups.

Ed Phillips was not a mature age draftee, and we've had worse on our list.

We draft Abbott so we can delist him and get Kernahan so we can delist him and get Campbell. So that accounts for a delisting each year.
If we'd had someone decent like Campbell does that mean we would have only delisted 7 in subsequent years.
( Then there was Frawley ).
Why did we draft the likes of Parker, and Hind, they did everything that could have been expected of such a player? , just churning .

We gave up the 4th 2nd round pick in 2018 so that we could get one of the last 2nd round picks in 2017 ( Clavarino ).
We gave up a 3rd round pick for Austin, who performed just like Port supporters told us he would, so we delisted him.

churn churn churn.

 

[diddley1984]

I see they fixed the spelling of her name by the end of the video, in a rather creative way to be honest.

 

[sunny3193]

Ryan Abbott (del)
Logan Austin (del)
Jack Bell (del)
Nathan Brown (ret)
Nick Hind (trd)
Doulton Langlands (del)
Jonathon Marsh (del)
Jack Mayo (del)
Dylan Roberton (ret)
Shane Savage (del)
Matthew Parker (del)
Ed Phillips (del)

Doulton Langlands our only young talent delisted, then again he's a rookie pick. The rest you could say where mature age draftees.

If there is anything that shows you our issues it's the delistings from 2020.

Retirements, delistings, trades - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

Then we doubled down the next year with a fresh set of top ups.

Two outliers.

 

[PostmanBish]

Of course we will back them but once a better player comes back from injury they have to replace them unless they really have proven they deserve spot. I don’t understand what you mean by backing them. What else bold the club do? They aren’t going to say you are in the side now but it’s a stop gap. And if they play ordinary and someone is playing well in the seconds then I don’t care how young they are they can be dropped. I don’t mean one incident but I also don’t mean play them for a certain amount of games however they are going.

I think we're broadly on the same page with our thinking ... if the kids step up and fill the hole well, it's up to the senior player to displace them - if they have given it a good whack, but need some time at Sandy to build on their learnings, and there's a healthy player showing better form, I'm sure cuddly Ross will make sure they feel fine about it.

I'd be a damn sight happier if we had all of our best 22 healthy, but I'm also quite excited to see a few players get some early exposure, and (hopefully) establish a platform to push for a regular spot later in the season or in 2024.

 

[Sun Ra]

Two outliers.

Parker and Hind ? Because they got another go elsewhere ?

 

[jwint43]

My belief is that you should only de-list someone if you can get someone better, though sometimes its hard to tell.

Jones: About to turn 28 (Happy birthday for tomorrow Jonesy ) , Seems to be struggling to stay on the park. Ranking ( out the door ) : ( 4)
Ross : Turns 30 in may but more reliable and consistent than Jones.
Wananeen-Milera : Only if he forces it, then we hope to get a good player back.
Byrnes : 21. at this stage offers some depth, can he improve ? (7)
Stocker : 23, is this 23 yo former early pick actually better than our other options ? (3)
Bytel : 23YO with previously limited opportunities. He needs to show he can play footy. (8)
Adams : 20YO? starting to show some signs he can play, in an area where we don't have huge depth.
Webster : Turns 30 in June, but has been Mr reliable in the backline after an injury prone start to his career. (9)
Wood : 29YO but is a very good player for us.
Highmore: Was a mature pick and is 25 now. Not exactly versatile in the types of roles he can play. (2)
McKenzie: Turns 27 in may. He has now shown he can play some good games, but jesus, not many. (5)
Connolly : We need to see if the coaches rate his chances, but looks to be a level below. (1)
Campbell : I wouldn't de-list him now but it depends what Heath, and Keeler do during the year. Even then we have limited depth.
McLennan: Cat B, No point delisting unless you find a better Cat B.
Peris : Cat B. Can we keep him Cat B for a 3rd year. If so he's not taking up a spot. (6)
Caminiti : We really need to see how he goes for the year.

Many years we de-list around 8 players, largely because it becomes obvious we are recruiting spuds.
A lot can change during the year, but as of now i don't want to see more than 7 go.
That's enough for 4 draft picks and a rookies. ( De-listing Peris only allows a Cat B rookie ).

Connolly as of right now hasn't been tearing up the track in VFL or forcing his way into seniors.
I like Highmore, but he isn't versatile and isn't demanding a spot at 25.
Stocker may or may not be able to play. The Cats aren't as stupid as we'd like to think.
Jones is getting on in years and looking like his best is behind him. He's welcome to prove me wrong.
McKenzie have been good when he plays, but he is injury prone, and not a big ball winner. Had a good career considering his output.
Peris: If we weren't going to give him a few years , we were stupid to recruit him in the first place.
Byrnes : With his iffy disposal , he needs to prove he can do plenty of good stuff to make him worth while. The likes of Hotton, Phillipou, Windhager etc, may mean that we don't need depth as deep as Byrnes. ( And hopefully we get some more midfielders in next years draft ).
Bytel can be an inside clearance/tackling machine, he needs to prove it though.

Had no idea McKenzie is turning 27, talk about a late bloomer (kinda)

 

[George]

Semi final in a year of 17 home and away games, reduced game times, no crowds, game hubs, teams not competing to their maximum potential.

This year set back us so far, more than you could ever imagine

We culled and brought in McKernan, Frawley etc and completely stopped developing our youth.

Lol I'm not sure why it's difficult for people to understand, but again, the discussion is how many players do we move off the list per year.