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Juth get tha ball to tha growwwwnd
That seems to be what can pass as being the requirement for being a forward at many clubs. Are you sure it’s easier being a defender?
2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team
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daaaaaaMakeAContethttdaaaaa
Juth get tha ball to tha growwwwnd
That seems to be what can pass as being the requirement for being a forward at many clubs. Are you sure it’s easier being a defender?
- Mar 2, 2015
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So bitter.
I agree as a Geelong supporter I was impressed with him at Geelong, he was in a side that was competing for a premiership at a very young age, also he was very focused on cricket until being drafted so it’s not surprising that after a few full pre seasons he has kept improving. He has amazing speed and good skills also plays with some cheekiness as well. He was competing with Tuohy Duncan Stewart and saw that he wasn’t going to get the minutes he wanted at that time as well. Good luck to him, I hope he continues to improve.So bitter.
Cameron has played two games, one was good, one was anonymous.
He'll be in the discussion later in the season but based of what's happened so far he's not.
The best defenders, Scarlett, Rance, McGovern, and now Taylor and Stewart, are certainly in the discussion as one of the best players in the comp.
They completely change how the opposition plays or eat them up if they don't.
Catastrophe!
Cancelled
- Jan 5, 2024
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That's sort of what I was getting at...I don't expect anyone else to be in the conversation besides those 4, at years end, nor would I expect anyone but Stewart to be getting a spot on the basis of our first 2 games.
Rd2 update
Luke Ryan - Taylor - Idun
NWM - May - W.Powell
Flanders - Green - Whitfield
Petracca - Hogan - Rozee
L.Jackson - McKay - C.Brown
Gawn - Heeney - Rowell
Jordan Clark - Gulden - Miller - Serong
bold = new
italics = off bench onto field
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- Jun 19, 2006
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I like what Jhye Clark is showing but I think AA is a bit of a stretch. Squad at best I'd say.
If you've ever played football you'd realise it's far easier playing behind the ball.
It's not a controversial statement if you're familiar with Australian Rules.
Obviously, there are great defenders who transcend the ordinary ones. At my club I don't take quality key defenders like Steven May for granted. He's the best key defender I've ever seen at Melbourne amongst a littany of ordinary ones.
But it doesn't change the fact that he's playing in the easiest part of the ground.
Perhaps you're seeing my comment as a slight on Stewart ? It's not. It's a general statement that has nothing to do with him.
To get away with JUST holding a spot on the ground? Maybe.
But what’s the trade off.
Ok, you can just stick a body down the back and say ‘go and spoil.’ Righto, nothing scientific there. But if you have the ball, and you f**k up, there is a direct consequence to every, single, mistake you make. Without fail. The only thing that changes is whether the opposition makes you pay with their accuracy or their disposal to the next person.
At the other end of the field, equally, you tell a forward - big or small ‘make a contest.’ You don’t have to run 15km like Nick Riewoldt or clunk marks like Tom Hawkins or sit on people’s heads like Jeff Farmer or kick goal of the year like Eddie Betts: make a contest. Get the ball to ground. Just tackle. Chase. Seems like a pretty similar trade off in terms of the ‘simplest aspects’ trade off.
Then you look at the worst case scenario? Ok if you’re one of those bottom level forwards who just gets thrown on the field to ‘create a contest and chase when he has to’ - the equivalent of a defender who just gets told to ‘stand next to an opponent and spoil him’ - what’s the worst thing that can happen if you make a mistake? The opposition has the ball 150 metres from goal and you’re still under relatively little pressure.
I think it’s much of a muchness to be honest if you go below the top tiers of each position.
- Nov 1, 2021
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From what I have seen this is who I think you could make an arguement for from each team so far. There have been good players I have left out because I believe there have been better players in their position.
GWS - Green, Hogan, M. Brown, Sam Taylor, Whitfield, Briggs.
Sydney - Heeney, Gulden, Warner, Papley, Blakey
Port Adelaide - Rozee, Butters, Houston
Melbourne - Petracca, Fritsch, Gawn, Pickett, May
Fremantle - Serong, Jackson, Clark, Ryan
Geelong - Dangerfield, Miers, Stewart
Carlton - McKay
Gold Coast - Rowell, Touk, Rosas, Powell, Collins
St Kilda - NWM, Marshall
Bulldogs - Bont, Jones, Weightman, English
Essendon - Merret, Gresham, McGrath, Stringer
Brisbane - Andrews
Adelaide - Dawson
Richmond - Vlaustin
Collingwood - Daicos, Cameron
North - Xerri, Powell, Sheezel
Hawthorn -
West Coast -
GWS - Green, Hogan, M. Brown, Sam Taylor, Whitfield, Briggs.
Sydney - Heeney, Gulden, Warner, Papley, Blakey
Port Adelaide - Rozee, Butters, Houston
Melbourne - Petracca, Fritsch, Gawn, Pickett, May
Fremantle - Serong, Jackson, Clark, Ryan
Geelong - Dangerfield, Miers, Stewart
Carlton - McKay
Gold Coast - Rowell, Touk, Rosas, Powell, Collins
St Kilda - NWM, Marshall
Bulldogs - Bont, Jones, Weightman, English
Essendon - Merret, Gresham, McGrath, Stringer
Brisbane - Andrews
Adelaide - Dawson
Richmond - Vlaustin
Collingwood - Daicos, Cameron
North - Xerri, Powell, Sheezel
Hawthorn -
West Coast -
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Have to agree with Trav 20 that defense is the easiest part of the ground to play.
I played ruck, full forward and full back for 20 years and FB was far and away the easiest position to learn, to have consistent impact and to excel at. I don't know anyone I played with that wouldn't agree.
The proof is there to see as well. There are lots of examples of middling/average forwards at AFL level that have excelled down back - Liam Jones, James Sicily, Harry Himmelberg, Darcy Moore, etc, etc. There are almost no examples of the reverse - where someone is average as a defender but excels as a forward.
Taking the Tom Stewart example - if you were to swap him and Jeremy Cameron and have Stewart play as a key/medium tall forward and Cameron as a loose interceptor, I have no doubt that Cameron would not only dominate but look to be one of the best of all time in that role where I think Stewart would likely have good patches but have lots of games of reduced or minimal impact.
The reasoning (in general, not necessarily the Stewart example) is pretty obvious...
In modern footy, defenders almost always have an outnumber whereas forwards are almost always outnumbered. As a defender, you have more teammates helping out than you do opposition to worry about. This makes the game SO much easier. You not only get much more help to do your job but when you have the ball you almost always have more options of who to give it to. You also have more freedom to peel off and impact the contest unopposed. As a defender, you often are able to create 2 on 1's in the air and if you are the plus 1, it's the easiest (and most fun) job in the world (2 blokes are wrestling and you just get to run and jump over the top). As a forward, how often would you get a 2 on 1 in your favour? Maybe once every 10 games? Basically never but the reverse is commonplace. Trying to mark the ball (or even bring it to ground) is bloody hard 2 on 1.
That's not even counting the fact that as a forward, you have a player whose whole job is to stop you doing yours and in most cases, that's been the role that they've been perfecting their whole careers. Taking the Stewart example again - on the rare occassion that a coach has sacrificed a forward to be dedicated to stopping Stewart instead of winning the ball themselves, he has looked pretty average. And that's typically been using a fringe 22 forward, rather than deploying a full time quality defender - as forwards get every week.
Both those factors are huge - and that's not even counting the fact that generally as a defender, you are lauded if your opponent is quiet, which typically only requires competing and breaking even, such that the ball comes to ground (50/50 is a win as a defender). As a forward, you have to actually create the opportunities and beat the opposition to take the mark/have an impact.
Just want to celebrate that for a bloke who's been mentioned multiple times in the "surprised he's still on a list" thread, Lewis Melican is closer right now to the AA squad as he ever was, or will be in his career.
I can appreciate most of that. Disclaimer - I am not an AFL player. In playing terms I have played all the other codes.
Soccer would be the closest equivalent I had as an AFL counterpoint and when I began I basically said ‘stick me in defence’ for that exact reason: I didn’t need any ‘craft’ etc, I could just be given an opponent and stick to them.
But one thing I worked out pretty quickly is that as a defender you’re tasked with making choices and it’s f**king hard. An attacker picks and chooses when to run to what part of the field and make his angles and his leads, they have that luxury. The defender doesn’t - it’s a ‘respond’ position and a decision making position and if someone else makes an error you find yourself having to make a decision of whether to leave your man or stay with him.
I do get what you mean and I suspect it’s probably the easiest position to forge a career in at a ‘decent’ level but I think it gets undersold a bit.
00Stinger
100 - 7
Anyone who says a player is a lock after 2 and 3 games is a twit
I don't care how they intend 'lock' to be interpreted either
He couldn't crack your 22 because of your propensity to pick dinosaurs. You can't blame him for looking elsewhere.
Caleb Serong has had a bloody good start to the season.
- Aug 12, 2017
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Lock
What's the reasoning for no Stewy?
May v Stewart at the moment.
Stewart got a lot v Crows, but was helped by the fact they just kicked it to him
Hard week to gauge given GWS, Geel and Dees played the 3 worst teams in the comp.
Being tall and seen as more of an Aussie Rules player, I've been put at CB in soccer also. It is completely different - for the reasons you mention. In footy, as a defender, you can prevent your opponent having an impact through body pressure and physicality. You can physically move and bump them to prevent them getting the ball and when they do get it, you can hammer them into the ground instantaneously. You can also just kill the ball by punching it away. The outnumber defenders have in footy allow one player to occupy the forward and one player is free to inercept the ball at will.
Soccer is COMPLETELY different. You can't touch your man whatsoever before the ball arrives. You obviously can't smash him when he gets it and even tackling has to be very clean/cautious to not overcommit and not foul. Basically, you are forced to be completely reactive to whatever he does and requires a higher level reading of the play, reading/predicting of your opponent and a crap load of luck. Even 1 mistake as a defender can cost your team the game. Most of the time good defence is built on (a) numbers behind the ball (b) your opposition making an error/giving you an in and (c) luck. Obviously good positioning and defensive skills helps a lot but at least at the lower levels, your team mates are typically happy to attack and get the glory and are less willing to help in defence. As soon as you don't have numbers behind the ball, you can be the best defender in the world with best reading/positioning but you've got no chance if the opposition have space and options to work in.
