Abbott helps more Aussies lose jobs

[greennick]

It isn't a tax I am referring to.

Hundred million loan , from the EFIC to Rio Tinto and BHP. The EFIC is supposed to provide loans to small and medium businesses and startups, not provide cash injections to multinational mining giants. They have tried to justify it on the slim pretext that it may help Australian businesses tender for work on this Chilean project, yet no actual details about which businesses will benefit has been provided. Likewise the EFIC isn't subject to FOI requests, so the loan conditions will never be known.

If it either wasn't high risk, shonky or this wasn't simply a case of back scratching, then why wouldn't Rio Tinto, or BHP seek a commercial loan, or use/raise their own capital to fund the project?

My guess, there will be some creative accounting, the loan will be written off and a steady flow off cash from both Rio Tinto and BHP will find it's way into Liberal party coffers over the coming years.

Your guess is a massive fraud is being conspired by 2 of the most prominent, successful and well run companies in the country, in conjunction with elected government officials to get a few more dollars into their re-election campaigns? And you base this on a general distrust of the Liberals or any facts? Given these companies are subject to FCPA provisions which would fine them billions for doing this, why would they do it?

How do you feel about the Labor party giving money to unions for "training" programs that are run by the unions? And then receiving money back from those same unions in about the exact same level of their original donations?

 

[Power Raid]

I do a lot of work out there. Finance was one of the easiest hurdles that project had. The financing they have is at great rates too.

That project is going full steam ahead and spending somewhere around $1b a quarter, with most of it local content (80%+ just the large machinery and steel is from overseas from memory). Despite the fact Koreans are running it (Samsung EPCM). Good on her.

Still not a fan though.

Gina's right hand man explained there was a fatal flaw in the engineering but wouldn't go into detail. I initially suspected a problem at the port but later signals pointed at the rail.

They must have resolved this (whatever it was) as a fatal flaw is not exactly bankable.

So yes, good on her.

 

[Power Raid]

It isn't a tax I am referring to.

Hundred million loan , from the EFIC to Rio Tinto and BHP. The EFIC is supposed to provide loans to small and medium businesses and startups, not provide cash injections to multinational mining giants. They have tried to justify it on the slim pretext that it may help Australian businesses tender for work on this Chilean project, yet no actual details about which businesses will benefit has been provided. Likewise the EFIC isn't subject to FOI requests, so the loan conditions will never be known.

If it either wasn't high risk, shonky or this wasn't simply a case of back scratching, then why wouldn't Rio Tinto, or BHP seek a commercial loan, or use/raise their own capital to fund the project?

My guess, there will be some creative accounting, the loan will be written off and a steady flow off cash from both Rio Tinto and BHP will find it's way into Liberal party coffers over the coming years.

Absolutely laughable.

You should give the Auditor General a call and tip him off on this scandal.

I'm sure he will have a giggle too.

 

[greennick]

Gina's right hand man explained there was a fatal flaw in the engineering but wouldn't go into detail. I initially suspected a problem at the port but later signals pointed at the rail.

They must have resolved this (whatever it was) as a fatal flaw is not exactly bankable.

So yes, good on her.

They still haven't worked out what is happening with the rail and port really. Essentially a lot of the other smaller players around there are looking at building something together as FMG is being a dick.

It is interesting how FMG demanded access to Rio and BHP rail, then when they couldn't get it, built their own. Now, they're behaving like even bigger dicks to people that want access to their rail. Not surprising as it is business, just interesting.

 

[yibbida]

Are Australian taxpayers forced to pay back her debt?

http://www.watoday.com.au/business/...e-corporate-welfare-queen-20140325-35eq3.html

How Australia's richest person, mining heiress Gina Rinehart, secured a $US694 million ($764 million) loan from American taxpayers is surely one of the great ironies of the capitalist system, reports The Australian Financial Review.

The case is the latest example of a flaw in the United States political economy: what some see as crony capitalism.

In return for the US government loan, Hancock Prospecting will purchase American mining and rail equipment from Caterpillar, General Electric and Atlas Copco. The Export-Import Bank says their involvement will "support" 3400 US jobs.

 

[yibbida]

Lol at the lefties.. Arguing that a global scale injection of capital into a massive infrastructure project is bad. In this vein maybe scaring off investment was the point of the RSPT in the first place? If that is the case it was wildly successful. Roy Hill the first big one to get up since that imbicile Rudd announced his policy disaster.

LOL at the conservatives, their entire being is based on Corporate welfare.

 

[Xsess]

LOL at the conservatives, their entire being is based on Corporate welfare.

That deal has no negative implications for the Australian taxpayer. If you read the artical its actually the yanky conservatives who are pi55ed. You should ask yourself why they are annoyed? I'll give you a little hint. If the yanks are annoyed about the funding arrangment, then its probably a good deal for the recipient and by extension, Australia.

 

[yibbida]

Direct Action is just as if not more so useless than the carbon tax/price whatever the kids are calling it these days. Asking how much your bill will reduce by really shows where your interest lies.

And that would be?

 

[Power Raid]

They still haven't worked out what is happening with the rail and port really. Essentially a lot of the other smaller players around there are looking at building something together as FMG is being a dick.

It is interesting how FMG demanded access to Rio and BHP rail, then when they couldn't get it, built their own. Now, they're behaving like even bigger dicks to people that want access to their rail. Not surprising as it is business, just interesting.

I won't put too much down but the expectations of twiggy amount to blackmail. I hope Gina gives him a bloody nose if he doesn't play fair.

Maybe Gina should start calling a few favours from ex-anaconda directors and open a can of worms.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Your guess is a massive fraud is being conspired by 2 of the most prominent, successful and well run companies in the country, in conjunction with elected government officials to get a few more dollars into their re-election campaigns? And you base this on a general distrust of the Liberals or any facts? Given these companies are subject to FCPA provisions which would fine them billions for doing this, why would they do it?

How do you feel about the Labor party giving money to unions for "training" programs that are run by the unions? And then receiving money back from those same unions in about the exact same level of their original donations?

It isn't fraud, not even close.

Nothing illegal at all, just unethical. Oh and greenick, very similar happens and often, you would be surprised how many slush funds exist and loopholes are exploited.

The loan is without reasonable explanation, so it is either extremely high risk, or has very generous loan conditions (zero interest, provisions for write offs etc.). Any donations of course will have no direct link to the original handout, but I very much doubt this is anything but a cynical back scratching exercise.

As for Labor and the unions, yep its shithouse and the only answer is campaign finance reform, which would ban donations from private entities, unions etc.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Absolutely laughable.

You should give the Auditor General a call and tip him off on this scandal.

I'm sure he will have a giggle too.

It isn't an accusation and I absolutely do not think funds will be diverted, I just think this is a loan being made with no expectation the public will make a return on their investment.

I also think it likely to engender future back scratching.

No fraud, nothing illegal. Just unethical.

 

[Power Raid]

It isn't an accusation and I absolutely do not think funds will be diverted, I just think this is a loan being made with no expectation the public will make a return on their investment.

I also think it likely to engender future back scratching.

No fraud, nothing illegal. Just unethical.

I have no problems with a govt fund playing smart like the Singapore fund Temasek. Where investments are made which create a return and or strategic play to build industries etc. This is something Australia has failed to grasp and should have been the focus of the last 20 years during our renaissance.

I have no doubt we will make a return as banking on BHP and RIO is low risk but I fail to see any strategic advantage. Nor do I see any back scratching as both of these companies would be able to get bonds from the US or Japan at ridiculously low rates that even our government would struggle to get.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I have no doubt we will make a return as banking on BHP and RIO is low risk but I fail to see any strategic advantage. Nor do I see any back scratching as both of these companies would be able to get bonds from the US or Japan at ridiculously low rates that even our government would struggle to get.

I am believe we will not make a return.

If they needed a scant 100 million for a safe investment, with a guaranteed rate of return, they would have self funded, or sought capital/investment from a commercial lender or another party.

 

[Power Raid]

It isn't an accusation and I absolutely do not think funds will be diverted, I just think this is a loan being made with no expectation the public will make a return on their investment.

I also think it likely to engender future back scratching.

No fraud, nothing illegal. Just unethical.

moving away from this particular investment.

The perfect time for this type of overseas investment would have been from 04-13. By aggressively rolling this out during the GFC and the period of AUD appreciation, this would have increased the supply of AUD and put downward pressure on its value.

As a result our manufacturers would not have suffered the way they did, our investments could have generated a tidy risk free 8% return and then a kicker return on FX conversion once the AUD depreciates.

Hopefully we get some Singaporean advisers to help our national funds investment strategies.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Hopefully we get some Singaporean advisers to help our national funds investment strategies.

We don't have the brainpower, or possibly the willpower.

It would go the way of super, basically a giant pool of cash for the unscrupulous financial services industry to rort.

 

[Power Raid]

I am believe we will not make a return.

If they needed a scant 100 million for a safe investment, with a guaranteed rate of return, they would have self funded, or sought capital/investment from a commercial lender or another party.

I have obtained loans from groups like the world bank and the IFC for strategic reasons rather than financial. So who knows the motivation.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

My super is doing very well, you just have to pick the right one.

 

[Power Raid]

We don't have the brainpower, or possibly the willpower.

It would go the way of super, basically a giant pool of cash for the unscrupulous financial services industry to rort.

I only have ~$40k in my super for that reason. It is a rort for both financial advisers and government.

I would use the word "criminal" to describe what is happening to workers savings.

 

[Power Raid]

My super is doing very well, you just have to pick the right one.

what kind of returns are you getting? more importantly what fees are you paying to your super company and what fees are they paying to third parties?

 

[crackerjack4X4]

http://www.australiansuper.com/
Low fees, 17% return last year.

 

[Power Raid]

http://www.australiansuper.com/
Low fees, 17% return last year.

just looked and a good performance over 10 years even after fees.

I prefer to invest in Australia using a foreign entity as the vehicle is in my control, no audits and legal costs (as with self managed funds), no CGT, interest and dividends can be offset to an aussie entity and no restrictions on availability to funds.

I also don't have the concern on what future governments may or may not do in the future (ie the push to tax super at 30%).

 

[greennick]

It isn't fraud, not even close.

Nothing illegal at all, just unethical. Oh and greenick, very similar happens and often, you would be surprised how many slush funds exist and loopholes are exploited.

The loan is without reasonable explanation, so it is either extremely high risk, or has very generous loan conditions (zero interest, provisions for write offs etc.). Any donations of course will have no direct link to the original handout, but I very much doubt this is anything but a cynical back scratching exercise.

As for Labor and the unions, yep its shithouse and the only answer is campaign finance reform, which would ban donations from private entities, unions etc.

You make massive assumptions there. High risk, based on what? Very generous, based on what? This is an arms length operation that makes a profit, I don't know why you would assume they would just start putting out dodgy loans to help the Liberal party based on no evidence whatsoever.

Gina got a $800m loan from the US version of this entity. Other mining companies have received loans for international projects. This is not an unusual loan.

How do you ban from private entities? It just means people like Gina will give private donations, not through Hancock Prospecting. I don't like the path were on now, but I don't like the alternatives. I don't think I have seen any countries with systems that work well. It is either the tax payer funding political parties or organisations/individuals. Either way is pretty crap.

 

[CakeEater]

BP refinery in Brisvegas and Phillip Morris are culling jobs now to.

 

[greennick]

BP refinery in Brisvegas and Phillip Morris are culling jobs now to.

I don't understand how these are Abbott's fault?

 

[tandino]

Phillip Morris is certainly the fault of the Government over successive decades.