Abbott Leadership challenge - "Et tu, Turnbull?" - 14/9/15

[JeffDunne]

Majority of Western nations, despite our inclinations to whinge, are relatively happy and satisfied.

Generally I'd agree but I think that's changing quickly.

The problem is, most Western nations have developed political systems that protect incumbent interests.

The systems may differ but the outcomes are the same.

 

[sherb]

Transparency.

But we already have transparency.

I can see right through this current government for instance.

 

[pjcrows]

Generally I'd agree but I think that's changing quickly.

The problem is, most Western nations have developed political systems that protect incumbent interests.

The systems may differ but the outcomes are the same.

Exactly. That's what I mean - we are beyond that changing.

 

[poller]

Its the government of the day which needs to show why it should be re-elected , not once in the last 13 months or so has the government or the media who has supported it has given praise.

The next 20 months or so isn't going to get any better for this government

 

[clogged]

Australia is not in a recession.

 

[pjcrows]

Its the government of the day which needs to show why it should be re-elected , not once in the last 13 months or so has the government or the media who has supported it has given praise.

The next 20 months or so isn't going to get any better for this government

Yeah it will.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Turnbull and j.Bishop has achieved nothing so far in this term.

This leadership team would be good for a laugh

C.Pyne / K.Andrews

I dont want to sound like those leftie loons with hyperbole reactions, but man if that happened moving to new zealamd becomes a pretty attractive destination

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Thanks for the pantomime lesson but you probably shouldn't have bothered. I'm fully aware too of the justifications for the status quo and the hope people have that someday it might actually spit out a half decent or worthy individual.

Unfortunately it will never happen. By design.

Debating whose winning and losing in such a system is as pointless as debating who is winning big brother.

If you participate in it then you as much of a problem as the imbeciles such a system produces.

Real change only happens through disobeying a bunch of laws.

"Pantomime lesson"? I'm pointing out the system as it stands and the flaws as they stand rather than making vague statements that it's all the fault of 'system'. I don't know if there is a term like 'motherhood statement' for anti-govt types but comments like the above deserve the same treatment. It's the sort of thing said by lefties when they are trying to sleep with indie girls. 'It's all about the money'; 'it's all about the oil' - it's all about importing phrases from American politics to make it sound like you're smarter than everyone else. Sometimes they say it's lizard people or the Jews or flouride or chem trails or reality TV or Murdoch. It's all pap.

Murdoch doesn't hide his influence. It's obvious. It's there to be debated and defeated if people really want, but instead they blame him for influencing everyone who doesn't agree with them rather than trying to engage those opinions in a meaningful way.

It's attitudes like your's that make sure we have poor representation because you think people who try and change it from within are "as much of a problem". There are significant amount of people who think pollies are the same so why pay attention to their policies. And it's bad for Australia.

Australia is fast becoming globally irrelevant and increasingly reliant on others so the party which leads us is largely meaningless anyway.

We've never really been globally relevant except for when we were a bunch of slaves turned revolutionary socialists.

What are you two on about? ^

 

[RUNVS]

What are you two on about? ^

The fact that we are becoming an intellectual and social backwater.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

The fact that we are becoming an intellectual and social backwater.

Labor got voted out because of in-fighting, not because people thought Abbott was correct. Howard brought in more immigrants than anyone else while dogwhistling to the racists about asylum seekers. Australia is relatively a lot richer than a lot of other nations. The internet may well be fragmenting people's news sources and distracting people from being more engaged, but that is happening everywhere, not just in Aus.

AKA No, we're not.

 

[Pessimistic]

Bishop ran the "adult government" line as much as if not more than any other lib

Just saying

 

[RUNVS]

Labor got voted out because of in-fighting, not because people thought Abbott was correct. Howard brought in more immigrants than anyone else while dogwhistling to the racists about asylum seekers. Australia is relatively a lot richer than a lot of other nations. The internet may well be fragmenting people's news sources and distracting people from being more engaged, but that is happening everywhere, not just in Aus.

AKA No, we're not.

The rest of the 1st world has essentially brought in gay marriage already. The rest of the 1st world also acknowledges climate change is real and man made.

What we essentially have is a government from 1975 that still won't give Aboriginal people the vote and still believes that lead paint and tobacco are perfectly safe for humans.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

But that's what I'm saying. Abbott didn't get in because of his views, IMO, but because Labor were in-fighting and a lot of people were thinking of him as being a part of Howard's team back in the day. The majority of Australians support gay marriage. Enough people still believe in Climate Change to make the Coaltion have their anti-market Direct Action money bin. We may have got the leader we deserved but we aren't backward.

 

[romeoh]

Don't trust Turnbull, don't think Bishop is quite intelligent or skillful enough. Or has enough generosity of spirit. ( but they are preferable to Tone the no hoper)

 

[JeffDunne]

"Pantomime lesson"? I'm pointing out the system as it stands ...

i.e. a pantomime.

You claim to understand it but challenge that description?

I don't know if there is a term like 'motherhood statement' for anti-govt types but comments like the above deserve the same treatment. It's the sort of thing said by lefties when they are trying to sleep with indie girls. 'It's all about the money'; 'it's all about the oil' - it's all about importing phrases from American politics to make it sound like you're smarter than everyone else. Sometimes they say it's lizard people or the Jews or flouride or chem trails or reality TV or Murdoch. It's all pap.

Wow. Who started this thread? The "adults in the room" talking point has become more American that apple pie.

That's essentially what I'm objecting to, the import of US bumper-sticker politics. As if our political debate wasn't dumb enough already, we need to import this sort of nonsense?

As for the rest of that quote, anti-gov & a leftie? Is that possible? And I see for good measure you've topped that off hysterically ranting about conspiracies? Nice.

Anti government? Far from it. Those that accept it's subversion through pseudo politics and it's dumbing down to current levels are the people that are anti-government (and pro bureaucracies)

Murdoch doesn't hide his influence. It's obvious. It's there to be debated and defeated if people really want, but instead they blame him for influencing everyone who doesn't agree with them rather than trying to engage those opinions in a meaningful way.

And . . . there is a point behind this?

FWIW, it's not his influence over policy I take issue with . . . it's his influence in dumbing down political discussion to talking points like "adults in the room". I doubt there's an hour of broadcasting on his US news network without use the expression in some form.

It's attitudes like your's that make sure we have poor representation because you think people who try and change it from within are "as much of a problem". There are significant amount of people who think pollies are the same so why pay attention to their policies. And it's bad for Australia.

I'm starting to think the nearest you've been to our political system is what you see on the evening news.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

i.e. a pantomime.

You claim to understand it but challenge that description

I don't follow this bit. Are you saying the system is the "pantomime"?

Wow. Who started this thread? The "adults in the room" talking point has become more American that apple pie.

That's essentially what I'm objecting to, the import of US bumper-sticker politics. As if our political debate wasn't dumb enough already, we need to import this sort of nonsense

And I'm clearly mocking the phrase in the title and OP.

As for the rest of that quote, anti-gov & a leftie? Is that possible? And I see for good measure you've topped that off hysterically ranting about conspiracies? Nice.

Anti government? Far from it. Those that accept it's subversion through pseudo politics and it's dumbing down to current levels are the people that are anti-government (and pro bureaucracies)

Yep. I stand by what I said. Odd that you attempt to re-write it above rather than quoting my comments directly.

And . . . there is a point behind this?

There wasn't a point directly related to you. I took what you said and expanded it into a comment about how predictable and non-thinking some people are when dismissing 'all politicians as the same' or that the 'system is broken'. The fact that it turned out that you did have an opinion on Murdoch's influence semi-justifies my stereotyping these people in such a way:

FWIW, it's not his influence over policy I take issue with . . . it's his influence in dumbing down political discussion to talking points like "adults in the room". I doubt there's an hour of broadcasting on his US news network without use the expression in some form.


I'm starting to think the nearest you've been to our political system is what you see on the evening news.

And you'd be wrong on that too.

 

[Todman]

Turnbull stuffed up with Godwin Grech, but was he really that bad otherwise? My memory had him being ousted mostly because he was an outsider - as Gough says above, the same as Rudd in that instance.

Turnbull was replaced for the folowing reasons,

1. His handling of the Grech affair.
2. His lack of popularity in the polls
3. He was bested by Krudd.
4. His willingness to give Rudd a major victory on AGW. Copenhagen proved Abbott's stance was correct.

 

[Maggie5]

All reading from the same script. Bishop=Rudd, big-time game players, with massive ego.
Turnbull, too far behind, dare say very little support, sad to say can't see anyone challenging.
Abbott has been very clever in selecting his Ministers.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Turnbull was replaced for the folowing reasons,

1. His handling of the Grech affair.
2. His lack of popularity in the polls
3. He was bested by Krudd.
4. His willingness to give Rudd a major victory on AGW. Copenhagen proved Abbott's stance was correct.

Fair enough, in seems a long, long time ago. Has Abbott gotten polls like Turnbull did? I think Gillard got the same as Kruddy, but Rudd didn't have the backing of colleagues so was removed quickly.

And without derailing the thread and re-hashing comparisons between two consumption taxes (carbon tax + GST), doesn't the China-US agreement on carbon make Abbott less 'correct'? There will be a huge market for non-fossil energy and Australia should've been leading that market due to our geographic advantages.

Anyway, good to see a Coalition sympathiser finally get in on the thread! If you think you know others who may make good policy, rather than just good politics, feel free to mention them.

 

[Todman]

Fair enough, in seems a long, long time ago. Has Abbott gotten polls like Turnbull did? I think Gillard got the same as Kruddy, but Rudd didn't have the backing of colleagues so was removed quickly.

And without derailing the thread and re-hashing comparisons between two consumption taxes (carbon tax + GST), doesn't the China-US agreement on carbon make Abbott less 'correct'? There will be a huge market for non-fossil energy and Australia should've been leading that market due to our geographic advantages.

Anyway, good to see a Coalition sympathiser finally get in on the thread! If you think you know others who may make good policy, rather than just good politics, feel free to mention them.

i think if you checked Abbotts worst is still better than Turnbull's best.

The US-China non-binding agreement states that China will not reduce emissions until 2030. Australia will look forward in selling Uranium to China's new Nuclear power plants.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

You know perfectly well that a nation pulling that many people into the middle class can't *reduce* emissions quickly. They are pulling a U-turn and they are much, much bigger than the Titanic.

The non-binding part is important, but not for the reasons I think you've bolded it. The point is they've agreed to targets and can take that to the world community so a global agreement is reached. I don't know who it is that always mentions Rudd's rat***ker line, but that was in reference to the Chinese stalling at Copenhagen. The US-China deal means such stalling won't happen again.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Turnbull was replaced for the folowing reasons,


4. His willingness to give Rudd a major victory on AGW. Copenhagen proved Abbott's stance was correct.

LOL at bolded. Ok, if you want to play like that - the current G20 Summit proves Abbott's stance is incorrect.

 

[Maggie5]

Chinese will reduce emissions well before 2030. Anyone been to China in the last few years?
If they don't they will have major health problems.

 

[Xsess]

Fanciful.

Abbott will lead the coalition to the next election.

 

[Maggie5]

Fanciful.

Abbott will lead the coalition to defeat at the next election.

EFA