Opinion Academies - Reasonable or Not

[CotchIsKing]

The AFL has committed to a national competition and therefore the concept of the academies in the non traditional AFL states to identify and nurture talent towards the AFL thus broadening the base for the next generations of players is important. This also broadens the base of supporters of the game, and no doubt the AFL hopes the relevant interstate clubs, whilst continuing to indoctrinate AFL into the psyche of the non traditional states.

GWS and Gold Coast were able to select 17 year olds and regional players, coax players from other clubs as well as dominate drafts in their initial years. This was accepted as being required to set these teams up. They will also not have access to F/S for a generation so again there is an argument that some further assistance is required.

That said:-

GWS pick up 3 kids in the first 16 bid (Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg) this year, Jack Steele at 24 last year. I believe the GWS zone also dips into traditional AFL areas meaning kids who would always likely have played AFL are being handed to GWS in a way that is not in line with one of the tenets of the academy program

Gold Coast do not appear to have benefitted over the last few years so maybe the others are just going through a period where there just are kids available.

Sydney have played in 4 grand finals, won 2 and missing the finals only once in that period. Via their academy they have picked up Heeney and Hiscox in 2014, from my recollection Heeney was suggested as a top 3 pick, Callum Mills in 2015, bid at pick 3.

Brisbane have had a few lean seasons of late, at the very least partially due to their own incompetence (the Vossy effect) but they also won 3 straight premierships from 2001-2003 and 2nd in 2004 and played in another finals series in 2009 finishing 6th. Via their academy they pick up Liam Dawson and Harris Andrews last year and Eric Hipwood and Ben Keays this year.

My concern is as the penetration of the academies become more successful over time, clubs with their own academy will have too much prioritised access to talent at ‘discount rates’.

Yes the new bidding system means the clubs have to pay ’market’ rates, but they receive a discount on the market bid and maybe more importantly have the opportunity to be involved in the training of the kids via their academies so getting insight into the kids no other team could possibly get and training the targeted kids in a style to prepare them for transition into their AFL systems.

It feels to me that a well run club, with a bit of luck, could get a top 5 pick every year at a discount regardless of where they finish on the ladder, plus the ability to identify talent through the deep insight into the kids through the program that they may be taking longer to develop and get them for a ‘nothing’ selection. If your team was well set, maybe such as a Sydney for example, that top selection to up would put you in prime position maintain outstanding quality coming through plus the ability to bring in players via Free Agency.

The comparison for the teams from traditional AFL states is the use of father / son. This is far less beneficial as we have seen at Tigerland over the years. How F/S and the academies are in the same system I cannot comprehend, particularly given Sydney and Brisbane have access to both systems.

My view are:-

* The AFL should run the academies, they likely pay for them anyway, and allow the flow of players to enter the draft uncompromised redress what appear inequalities that have the potential to further compromise the competition

* GWS and Gold Coast get some level of prioritised access for a period (20 years) in recognition they have no F/S.

* At the very least the traditional AFL areas are excluded from the Academies and the areas should look to shrink over time.

or

* All clubs should have the ability to have an academy

 

[tigerz18]

Here's what i'd do
*each Victorian AFL club is assigned a zone, with Adelaide and PA and WCE and Freo to have the same as the northern clubs have. (not based on clubs, as there are 12 tac cup clubs, but zones)
* each year, each club can nominate 3x 16 yo players from their zone/academy to be their academy players for when that kid is available for drafting years. then the kid has complete access to the club and its facilities until they can be drafted.
* nominations cannot be changed. once nominated the kid is linked to the club. if the kid stops developing or the club no longer want him, they cannot change it and they need to work harder at developing him.
* the draft works the same as now, clubs who have superstars, must pay for him with first round picks. and you dont have to take the kids you have nominated

 

[Toadvine]

You make some great points and I agree with you. The system as it stands now is an unfair one but it doesn't seem like the AFL want what is "fair", they want what will make expansion clubs stronger.

A friend and I where chatting during the draft about ways to get Academy kids to WANT to enter the the open draft. We thought that maybe if the teams with the Academies had to wait until the players were 20 years old to be able to claim them in the draft that that could be enough incentive.

For instance with Mills this year, if he wanted to only play for Sydney he would have to wait until he was 20 years old and be bid on much on the way of the current system. However, if he wanted to play AFL from the age of 18 he would have to enter the open draft like every other eligible player and be at the mercy of playing for whoever picks him. The incentive would be the opportunity to play at AFL level earlier and an increase in earning capacity.

I know it's not a full proof idea but I think the AFL has to come up with something to make these kids want to enter the open draft.

 

[Infamy]

They are already looking at youth academies for all clubs, I think they are coming in over the next couple of years.
Each club will be allocated a region.
My only worry with this model is that this is almost going back to the old recruiting zones which ended up with some clubs getting much stronger zones like Hawthorn back in the 80s. They were meant to switch around but obviously those with the strong zones lobbied for them to not change.

 

[Spluff]

I think prior to the introduction of the bidding system they were not fair, from the perspective of a rival club. When somebody like Sydney is picking up the best player in the draft, questions need to be asked. However, from the perspective of the AFL in general they are a huge boon for both the growth of the game (by encouraging kids in non-AFL areas to continue with the game) and the overall quality of the game (by developing and increasing the talent coming into the system. They also are operated primarily by their respective clubs, and so without any incentive for the clubs to run them they would disappear and the AFL would lose these benefits. I think the bidding system, coupled with the possibility of other clubs to open their own academies, help even it all out though.

 

[tigerz18]

They are already looking at youth academies for all clubs, I think they are coming in over the next couple of years.
Each club will be allocated a region.
My only worry with this model is that this is almost going back to the old recruiting zones which ended up with some clubs getting much stronger zones like Hawthorn back in the 80s. They were meant to switch around but obviously those with the strong zones lobbied for them to not change.

if you limit the amount of players the clubs can nominate from that zone, you stop that happening

 

[Calcium Man]

My two problems with academy kids is allowing the Northern clubs to trade down for points, defeats the purpose of the bidding, and GWS' access to the Riverina region.

The AFL can probably value each draftee with some input from recruiters before trade week then put a freeze on certain academy club picks so they cannot pick up the 3rd best player in the draft for a bunch of picks in the 30's.

The reality is the talent pool needs to expand, this year added (not including Hopper and Kennedy who were both going to play AFL) about 10 kids to the draft pool, thats not to be sneezed at. It also limits the go home factor which is a massive concern too for those clubs to be viable.

As for the last it sounds like the AFL will strip them of that region but not for at least two more years. If the AFL is worried about a few slipping away in that area then they should set up a proper TAC team in the region.

edit: Also add that with Steele, Kennedy and Hopper thats 3 big inside types, on top of the rest of their talent more guys will leave like Treloar. Kelly and Ahern would be the two i'd target, no idea what happened with WHE this year either but seemed to drop off completely, but he might be another to consider.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

They should stop trying to compete in non traditional afl areas for the purpose of this national competition crap , which is ultimately coming at the expense of traditional areas .

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

I'm all for the academies.

You need to live outside of the southern states to realise how limited the AFL's presence is outside of the AFL states.
The AFL and northern clubs need local success stories and the academies are one way to go about it.

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

They should stop trying to compete in non traditional afl areas for the purpose of this national competition crap , which is ultimately coming at the expense of traditional areas .

QLD and NSW's combined population is 12 million. The only way the AFL can generate big bucks is by having markets in these states.

 

[JR82]

i like the idea of developing kids from all over the country but at Draft time everyone should be in the Draft.
it's crap kids like Heeney can only end up at one Club, which also happened to be a side that was in the previous yrs Grand Final when at the time he was rated as a top 3 pic had he been in the Draft, yet St Kilda had pick 1 & couldn't choose him if they wanted him & we can all see they & Melb need a kid like that as part of thier rebuild. Syd has made 17 of the last 20 Finals series & this will be the case with the 2 expansion Clubs as well under the current system. while Clubs like us/Melb/StK/Dogs have struggled for years to succeed while certain other Clubs can't possibly bottom out under the current system...

other idea would be let them keep thier Academy only selections but don't have them picking kids out of the Draft as well, Draft Academy kids only

all we want is a level playing field for all!

 

[TigerImposter]

What happened to equalization through the drafts?We are going back 30years. The draft was supposed to eliminate any bias
GCS and GWS got their picks to assist them(and fair enough),but it's time they put up with the same rules as the rest of us .
And for Sydney and Brisbane they can GAGF as nobody did us any favors when we were financially ruined with facilities unfit for possum breeding

 

[Bobsleder]

Living in Sydney, I'm all for it. Local football is just starting to see the rewards at senior level, as the first generation of kids are coming through the academy are hitting the senior football clubs as 19yrs olds.

Yes, there is still room to make improvements, review regions eg Wagga etc. I think they can make the first round a free for all, anyone can pick an academy kid if you want, then pay that academy monetary sum (eg $50k), for their time and effort.

The AFL can't run the academies, as they already failed at it. The academy clubs put in the money and they should get some reward for it.

The big picture is the participation at local level and the improved skills, as the kids are so far behind traditional States when they start out playing.

So don't look at it like Eddie. You see a couple bargains get through the draft and kick up a stink, but consider the other 100 odd kids that year that have been through the academy programs that remain In the game, when they normally drop off here in Sydney at this age group.

 

[have a RHG]

The acadamies are fair. This year was one out of the box for NSW not only their most successful year in terms of draftees but the best year they've had since....wait for it....98.
So foes 1 good year and a handful of quality players going to the swans and GWS warrant dramatic change. I think not.
Imagine if geelong had priority access to the falcons or essendon to the calder cannons. That would be enough grounds for change. nsw junior football needs this pathway.

 

[tigerz18]

The way we recruit, the Northern Knights are Richmond's academy team already

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

The way we recruit, the Northern Knights are Richmond's academy team already

Dont let eddie find out! shhhhh

 

[Dr Tigris]

I don't look at it as an issue of this year or 2016. It is about building a footy culture in non-traditional states. A few years agao the ACT was easily much stronger in junior and club footy than all of NSW Sydney side of the ACT. That is, 400,000 people who played Rubgy, League and AFL (3rd) were stronger than 6+ million. The AFL wants/needs to build up a talent pool and supporter culture in NSW. Just putting money into junior clubs won't work, because who plays, who coaches etc? So they also let the NSW (same applies to QLD) have academies. the logic being professional coaching could produce good juniors. Good juniors show that you can get the AFL form anywhere. And this turbo charges the junior leagues. Etc etc. Whether it will work I don't know. But it seems to be. There is now a decent local junior comp in Sydney and Qld, the NEAFL is getting better and they are getting good juniors through.

So it looks like a great success. AFL plans conquer the world!!!!

Except that the clubs have been too good at developing juniors. They are taking non-traditional AFL areas and developing very very good juniors. That wasn't part of the plan. They were just supposed to show it was viable to get into the AFL itself. So that means other clubs, and their supporters (like on this board in this thread), want access to the rivers of gold the Academies are producing. The AFL outsmarted itself, again. It thought that club academies wouldn't be much better than the TAC system. Turns out when AFL clubs really care and will get the rewards they do a lot better job than the TAC clubs.

So my solution is actually to allow traditional area AFL clubs to have academies, but very limited ones. limited numbers they have to pick based on some criteria when the kids are about 10-12. Don't screw up the existing junior system!! If we go the whole hog with AFL club systems, then there are too many kids in Vic, WA, SA, NT, Tas.

Anyway, the Qld/NSW AFL clubs have proven that they can improve the standard of juniors if they train them themselves. Therefore we can improve the entire crop by learning from twhat they are doing. How would we all like to see current top 10 quality kids extend to 20 deep, and similarly for 10-20 kids being 20 or 30 in number. It could potentially increase the quality of the first 2/3 rounds every year. Lots of kids locked into their academy clubs. But then those same kids would probably also support 'their' teams.

Add in the free agent stuff it could lead to active trading of picks and increased opportunities for clubs to get good kids most years.

I'd like to see better quality footballers and thus a better quality AFL.

 

[Bird Man]

isnt this what the NRL has ? then what good will the draft be ?

 

[Charlie Pannam]

They are already looking at youth academies for all clubs, I think they are coming in over the next couple of years.
Each club will be allocated a region.
My only worry with this model is that this is almost going back to the old recruiting zones which ended up with some clubs getting much stronger zones like Hawthorn back in the 80s. They were meant to switch around but obviously those with the strong zones lobbied for them to not change.

What are they planning for WA and SA teams ? 2 teams for the entire State they'll be rubbing their hands together if they happen to have some sort of zoning.

 

[Bobsleder]

Anyone here live in the Riverina area that can comment on whether they feel the GWS academy is adding value to the local competitions and participation rates.

 

[tigerz18]

Here's what i'd do
*each Victorian AFL club is assigned a zone, with Adelaide and PA and WCE and Freo to have the same as the northern clubs have. (not based on clubs, as there are 12 tac cup clubs, but zones)
* each year, each club can nominate 3x 16 yo players from their zone/academy to be their academy players for when that kid is available for drafting years. then the kid has complete access to the club and its facilities until they can be drafted.
* nominations cannot be changed. once nominated the kid is linked to the club. if the kid stops developing or the club no longer want him, they cannot change it and they need to work harder at developing him.
* the draft works the same as now, clubs who have superstars, must pay for him with first round picks. and you dont have to take the kids you have nominated

Hi AFL, Can i have a job?

 

[Groupie_]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-03/victorian-clubs-handed-afl-funding-for-academies

 

[Googstar]

No problems with the interstate clubs trying to convert kids to AFL. The new zoning seems strange. We have been gifted a fairly large proportion of Vic, yet no representation in the NT. Only Melb (to tie in with home games played at Alice?), Geelong (WTF) and Hawthorn (even more WTF) and suprise suprise the druggies. Seems strange from here.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

It's just a flat out bribe to the VIC clubs to shut the * up while the AFL go about engineering premierships for their expansion clubs.

 

[JR82]

No problems with the interstate clubs trying to convert kids to AFL. The new zoning seems strange. We have been gifted a fairly large proportion of Vic, yet no representation in the NT. Only Melb (to tie in with home games played at Alice?), Geelong (WTF) and Hawthorn (even more WTF) and suprise suprise the druggies. Seems strange from here.

ii reckon all the I/S Clubs will have something to say re: the NT allocation as they are not included.....
i am fine with the Vic allocation as that is the home state of the Vic Clubs