List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[Mattrox]

I don't see why not?

We have the (hypothetical) 150k that we need to use this year. Why waste it on Martin if we are going to delist him at the end of 2015 (a year in which we won't be contending for a flag).

Thats exactly how you manipulate the salary cap to ensure we have enough money to keep Danger, Sloane, Tex.

We delist Martin and replace him with......?


... a rookie listed player, unlikely to play a game or be a long term prospect.

Yep. Let's reward players who step up in their performance with a delisting. Awesome club culture. If we are arguing we want team first players but act in a manner that devalues this it will not build the strong club culture we crave.

 

[Gets!]

Chris Pelchen just resigned from St Kilda..... Just sayin'

Yep interesting development over there. I always thought he was very highly rated.

 

[AFC979810]

We delist Martin and replace him with......?


... a rookie listed player, unlikely to play a game or be a long term prospect.

Yep. Let's reward players who step up in their performance with a delisting. Awesome club culture. If we are arguing we want team first players but act in a manner that devalues this it will not build the strong club culture we crave.

Don't replace him with anyone.

I am suggesting we do what Sydney does and move to a system where we don't use all of our allotted list spots.

Have two open spots and use the extra cash to retain/poach better players.

 

[MyLittleSloaney]

Anyone suggesting we delist Martin to save cash clearly has no clue as to how much first year draftees make. It's more than you think ....

 

[AFC979810]

Yep. Let's reward players who step up in their performance with a delisting. Awesome club culture. If we are arguing we want team first players but act in a manner that devalues this it will not build the strong club culture we crave.

This is AFL. Was Geelongs culture ruined because they didn't offer Chapman / Pods contracts after successful 2013 season?

What about Hawks not retaining Brad Sewell? Are they creating a bad club culture?

I mean lets not act like Martin is anything special. He finished 17th in our clubs B&F. He is an average player at best. He will not be part of our next flag push - he is just taking up cap space.

 

[AFC979810]

Anyone suggesting we delist Martin to save cash clearly has no clue as to how much first year draftees make. It's more than you think ....

Unless you leave an open spot...

 

[Bacon8]

Unless you leave an open spot...

So 80K.

Or around 0.8% of the cap.

 

[AFC979810]

They are paying him a million a year and he is no certainty at all. Cameron yeah that would have been a great move. Big gamble on Boyd working out many a highly rated tall don't.

Its a gamble. But a good gamble.

If I was forced to gamble on something it would be on a #1 draft pick who is 201cm and 102kilos at 19. He is the exact type of player you can build a club around.

 

[AFC979810]

So 80K.

Or around 0.8% of the cap.

Martin is only on 80k? Surely not. He has been on our list for 7 years.

 

[Bacon8]

This is AFL. Was Geelongs culture ruined because they didn't offer Chapman / Pods contracts after successful 2013 season?

What about Hawks not retaining Brad Sewell? Are they creating a bad club culture?

I mean lets not act like Martin is anything special. He finished 17th in our clubs B&F. He is an average player at best. He will not be part of our next flag push - he is just taking up cap space.

A 25 year old, versus 3 x 30+ year old.

Great comparison.

 

[Bacon8]

Martin is only on 80k? Surely not. He has been on our list for 7 years.

A 4th/5th round rookie pick would be. That's the saving of having a space list spot.

 

[AFC979810]

A 4th/5th round rookie pick would be. That's the saving of having a space list spot.

Not sure if you missed where I suggested that we leave a couple of list spots open (like Sydney). Save the cash for retaining our best players / recruiting better players.

 

[Bacon8]

Not sure if you missed where I suggested that we leave a couple of list spots open (like Sydney). Save the cash for retaining our best players / recruiting better players.

That's what I was replying to. If you leave a spot open, it's because you haven't drafted a 4th/5th/8th round pick. Who earns 80K (approx).

You know, 2014 was the first time Sydney did it (leaving a spot open). Mainly because of Buddy & the removal of the COLA.

Carlton, Collingwood & Richmond did it too in 2014. Was it a successful strategy for them?

 

[AFC979810]

A 25 year old, versus 3 x 30+ year old.

Great comparison.

Its not so much the age comparison.

More the long term list management strategy. Making tough calls to be better in the long run.

I genuinely don't believe that Martin is a genuine part of our next premiership squad. I don't believe that he will be in our best 22 come round 1 (obviously depending on our injuries).

I see absolutely no reason in keeping him as I still maintain he does not have anything special about him. He has no outstanding AFL qualities that he brings other than he is tough.

 

[Bacon8]

I see absolutely no reason in keeping him as I still maintain he does not have anything special about him. He has no outstanding AFL qualities that he brings other than he is tough.

Is that not how Dean Solomon became a premiership player?

 

[AFC979810]

That's what I was replying to. If you leave a spot open, it's because you haven't drafted a 4th/5th/8th round pick. Who earns 80K (approx).

You know, 2014 was the first time Sydney did it (leaving a spot open). Mainly because of Buddy & the removal of the COLA.

Carlton, Collingwood & Richmond did it too in 2014. Was it a successful strategy for them?

So if you drop Martin who is on 150k and you don't pick up another player. Thats a saving of 150k - not 80k as you suggested.

Well - possibly that strategy kept Gibbs at Carlton. Who knows if its part of Cwood/Richmonds attempts to free up more cash to hit the huge free agent market of 2015?

 

[Mattrox]

This is AFL. Was Geelongs culture ruined because they didn't offer Chapman / Pods contracts after successful 2013 season?

What about Hawks not retaining Brad Sewell? Are they creating a bad club culture?

I mean lets not act like Martin is anything special. He finished 17th in our clubs B&F. He is an average player at best. He will not be part of our next flag push - he is just taking up cap space.

You are comparing clubs with a culture of success to us turning the corner and trying to develop a strong culture.

Also as far as I can find. We can go 38 + 6, 39 + 5 or 40+ 4. We can't just delist Martin and have a smaller list as far as I can see.

Also, you haven't addressed the situation where we do reasonably well, injuries strike, we use Martin. The injuries heal and we are finals contenders. With out Martin we are a "sound player" short which could have home final implications.

 

[AFC979810]

Is that not how Dean Solomon became a premiership player?

If you can't see the difference between the Essendon team of 1999/2000 and the Adelaide Crows team of 2014/2015 I don't think anything anyone says can help you.

 

[Bacon8]

Also as far as I can find. We can go 38 + 6, 39 + 5 or 40+ 4. We can't just delist Martin and have a smaller list as far as I can see.

You can. Rookie spots are dependant on TPP. Carlton went 38+5 this year.

And rookie base payments don't count to TPP anyway.

 

[Bacon8]

If you can't see the difference between the Essendon team of 1999/2000 and the Adelaide Crows team of 2014/2015 I don't think anything anyone says can help you.

If you can't see that a premiership 22 doesn't have to contain 22 stars, then I can't help you either.

 

[Mattrox]

You can. Rookie spots are dependant on TPP. Carlton went 38+5 this year.

And rookie base payments don't count to TPP anyway.

Was that due to a retirement after the draft though?

I understood that it was half the salary was counted towards tpp?

 

[Bacon8]

So if you drop Martin who is on 150k and you don't pick up another player. Thats a saving of 150k - not 80k as you suggested.

Well - possibly that strategy kept Gibbs at Carlton. Who knows if its part of Cwood/Richmonds attempts to free up more cash to hit the huge free agent market of 2015?

Will Gibbs play in Carlton's next flag?

 

[Bacon8]

Was that due to a retirement after the draft though?

I understood that it was half the salary was counted towards tpp?

No, I'm still counting Duigan in that 38.

Sorry, you are half right. 50% of a nominated rookie. So one promoted to cover an empty spot. If they aren't put up, they are just a rookie, and that isn't in the TPP.

 

[AFC979810]

You are comparing clubs with a culture of success to us turning the corner and trying to develop a strong culture.

Aren't we trying to establish a ruthless winning culture? New coaches come in all the time and cull the deadwood. It doesn't hurt the culture. I really don't think our club would be struggling if we didn't give Brodie Martin another contract.

Also as far as I can find. We can go 38 + 6, 39 + 5 or 40+ 4. We can't just delist Martin and have a smaller list as far as I can see.

Might need someone to clarify this. I was of the understanding you could have 38 main players and 4 on the rookie list. I may be wrong though.

Also, you haven't addressed the situation where we do reasonably well, injuries strike, we use Martin. The injuries heal and we are finals contenders. With out Martin we are a "sound player" short which could have home final implications.

Martins position is the easiest on the field to cover. We would not miss him. If our clubs finals fortunes comes down to Brodie Martin we are in even worse shape than I thought.

 

[AFC979810]

If you can't see that a premiership 22 doesn't have to contain 22 stars, then I can't help you either.

Absolutely I agree that a premiership doesnt have to contain 22 stars.

If it was 2005-2008 I would be all for Brodie Martin staying on! Players like him are valuable to sides good enough to contend for the finals and pushing for a flag.

We are not that.