AFL 2015, Round 5 - Nth Melbourne v Hawthorn, Etihad Stadium, 7.20pm

[Valentino]

Brushed him. He will get zilch weeks. Go Hawks.

Whatever helps you sleep at night mate!

 

[Farang83150]

Hodge basically told swallow to get the damn off him while he was on the ground with swallow hassling and grappling him. Yea, that's right grapple . Hodge will and should get off.

What about the elbow to the head on Swallow?

 

[Hawkforce]

Lucky the North players didn't go to water like the fans in this thread.

Oh wait...

 

[jacko57]

When did the retirement home give you back your internet privileges?

When did you return from your latest trip to the States where you had to take care of 'the ladies'?

 

[Back One Out]

Big fan of the Haws but what Hodge and Lewis did was low, not gutsy stuff at all.

I agree with this post.

Then again, there is nothing "gutsy" about taking a chest mark; or having a set shot at goal; or standing next to your opponent while waiting for the centre bounce; or taking a drink of water after a goal; or running through a banner before the game; or singing the club song after a win; or sitting down on the floor of the change rooms and having a rest before taking your boots off.

I'm mystified why people think Hodge or Lewis were trying to be "gutsy" or "courageous" when they biffed Swallow and Goldstein. Most rational people who have a vague understanding of the game would realise their aggressive acts resulted from their state of mind during the first quarter of a crunch game. It was more likely designed to intimidate their rivals (and it worked to a degree.) It certainly wasn't done to show off how tough they are for the benefit of people watching at home on TV.

Both Hodge and Lewis have demonstrated time and time again over the past decade that when it's their turn to go, they do so without a second's thought, so I'm not even sure why their "toughness" enters this particular discussion.

It's the clueless, sheeplike tendency of football fans to say crap like "That isn't tough!" when they see aggression on the footy field. But these are not 18yo roosters fighting outside a nightclub and trying to impress the ladies. They're professional footballers trying to assert their supremacy and rough their opponents up.

When Leigh matthews smashed Neville Bruns and Barry Hall smashed Brent Staker, it wasn't "gutless". It was hostile. They weren't trying to prove their toughness to anybody. They were trying to knock their opponent out.

 

[jacko57]

I agree with this post.

Then again, there is nothing "gutsy" about taking a chest mark; or having a set shot at goal; or standing next to your opponent while waiting for the centre bounce; or taking a drink of water after a goal; or running through a banner before the game; or singing the club song after a win; or sitting down on the floor of the change rooms and having a rest before taking your boots off.

I'm mystified why people think Hodge or Lewis were trying to be "gutsy" or "courageous" when they biffed Swallow and Goldstein. Most rational people who have a vague understanding of the game would realise their aggressive acts resulted from their state of mind during the first quarter of a crunch game. It was more likely designed to intimidate their rivals (and it worked to a degree.) It certainly wasn't done to show off how tough they are for the benefit of people watching at home on TV.

Both Hodge and Lewis have demonstrated time and time again over the past decade that when it's their turn to go, they do so without a second's thought, so I'm not even sure why this even enters the discussion.

It's the clueless, sheeplike like tendency of footy fans to say crap like "That isn't tough!" when they see aggression on the footy field. These are not 18yo roosters fighting outside a nightclub. They're professional footballers trying to assert their supremacy and rough their opponents up.

When Leigh matthews smashed Neville Bruns and Barry Hall smashed Brent Staker, it wasn't "gutless". It was hostile. They weren't trying to prove their toughness to anybody. They were trying to knock their opponent out.

I guess the point most people are trying to make in such discussions is : if a player shows great courage when going for the ball, their reputation for courage / toughness is diminished when they belt opponents in what is such an un-courageous manner.

eg, many fans say Leigh Matthews was as tough and courageous as they come ; but for many of us, his reputation for courage has that small question mark.

On the other hand, I never saw Jason Dunstall shirk a context or fail to commit 100% to a contest. And I never saw, or heard of, him sniping an opponent.

 

[Power Raid]

Hawks by 60-120 points

good call

 

[Back One Out]

I guess the point most people are trying to make in such discussions is : if a player shows great courage when going for the ball, their reputation for courage / toughness is diminished when they belt opponents in what is such an un-courageous manner.

eg, many fans say Leigh Matthews was as tough and courageous as they come ; but for many of us, his reputation for courage has that small question mark.

On the other hand, I never saw Jason Dunstall shirk a context or fail to commit 100% to a contest. And I never saw, or heard of, him sniping an opponent.

Fair enough. You're entitled to think whatever you want. It doesn't make you right. If someone walked up to me in the street and belted the absolute crap out of me, I would probably think they were an animal and a piece of s**t. I wouldn't be moaning about how "gutless" they were as I picked my teeth off the ground.

I don't think "toughness" has got anything to do with on-field aggression and violence. It's a separate realm. Dunstall and Matthews were both tough. Neither was scared of getting hurt. Dunstall was also a fair player whereas Matthews was a dirty mongrel.

Anyway, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with these latest 2 incidents. They'll probably get a week or two, but the Channel 7 hysterics and the online hysterics have been way over the top, IMO. Just like the reaction to Clarkson was over the top. A bit of tall poppy syndrome, I reckon.

Last season, we saw about a dozen footballers get away with swatting opponents in the head during marking contests while pretending to punch the ball and missing by a foot.) I never saw anyone react like this except for when Josh Gibson arrived late and mistimed a spoil vs Richmond and was suspended for 1 match.

Hodge's extravagant brain fart looked bad, but I don't think he put much behind it. It wasn't an elbow (as many people have said.) He got him on the jaw with the fleshy part of his forearm. Swallow was okay. He went down and he was angry, but no harm was done. Yarran's haymaker on Chappy was much, much worse and he got 3 weeks, so I'd think 1-2 matches for Hodge would be sufficient.

 

[jacko57]

I don't think "toughness" has got anything to do with on-field aggression and violence. It's a separate realm. Dunstall and Matthews were both tough. Neither was scared of getting hurt. Dunstall was also a fair player whereas Matthews was a dirty mongrel.



Anyway, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with these latest 2 incidents. They'll probably get a week or two, but the Channel 7 hysterics and the online hysterics have been way over the top, IMO. Just like the reaction to Clarkson was over the top. A bit of tall poppy syndrome, I reckon.

Fair enough.

PS short poppy syndrome, in Clarko's case.

 

[ZingerB]

Firstly, how would you know if it was harder than Yarran's? Goldstein kept playing, chapman subbed off with concussion.

Secondly, not sure it's deliberate. Went for the spoil, arrived late, collected the head. It was poor from Lewis, will get a week or two, but some perspective please.

Absolutely 100% intentional. Goldstein had the ball in his hands before Lewis wound up and left the ground way after he had any hope of spoiling. It is almost worse than Vickery's last year because at least he copped an elbow to the stomach 1st. He probably will only get 2 weeks because the MRP is a ******* joke when Vickery should have got 6-8 and Yarran should have got about 4.

 

[ZingerB]

Fair enough. You're entitled to think whatever you want. It doesn't make you right. If someone walked up to me in the street and belted the absolute crap out of me, I would probably think they were an animal and a piece of s**t. I wouldn't be moaning about how "gutless" they were as I picked my teeth off the ground.

I don't think "toughness" has got anything to do with on-field aggression and violence. It's a separate realm. Dunstall and Matthews were both tough. Neither was scared of getting hurt. Dunstall was also a fair player whereas Matthews was a dirty mongrel.

Anyway, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with these latest 2 incidents. They'll probably get a week or two, but the Channel 7 hysterics and the online hysterics have been way over the top, IMO. Just like the reaction to Clarkson was over the top. A bit of tall poppy syndrome, I reckon.

Last season, we saw about a dozen footballers get away with swatting opponents in the head during marking contests while pretending to punch the ball and missing by a foot.) I never saw anyone react like this except for when Josh Gibson arrived late and mistimed a spoil vs Richmond and was suspended for 1 match.

Hodge's extravagant brain fart looked bad, but I don't think he put much behind it. It wasn't an elbow (as many people have said.) He got him on the jaw with the fleshy part of his forearm. Swallow was okay. He went down and he was angry, but no harm was done. Yarran's haymaker on Chappy was much, much worse and he got 3 weeks, so I'd think 1-2 matches for Hodge would be sufficient.

Both were intentional strikes and should be dealt with harshly. The problem that the MRP has is it is giving huge penalties for completely innocent bumps (some of the suspensions have been absurd - I remember Pavlich getting 4 weeks down to 3 in 2013 for a bump he pulled out of), and then giving soft penalties for dirty scraging (Vickery, Conca, Yarran). 2 might be fair for Hodge because he didn't hit him that hard, but if there is any justice (it's the MRP, so who knows?) Lewis will get the book thrown at him. You can't deliberately round house punch a player. It was worth 2 weeks in the late 90's - early 2000's, so with this new 'protect the players at all costs' attitude the penalty should reflect this and what other players are getting for bumps.

 

[Back One Out]

Lewis will get the book thrown at him. You can't deliberately round house punch a player. It was worth 2 weeks in the late 90's - early 2000's, so with this new 'protect the players at all costs' attitude the penalty should reflect this and what other players are getting for bumps.

I saw at least 10 or 12 similar hits last year which went unpunished.
Where was everyone last year when many defenders were getting away with murder?

I agree that Lewis will be suspended but the lynch mob mentality makes me laugh.
It was late and crude. He made him earn it, as they say. I reckon 2 weeks tops.

People who are calling for more than that need to wash the sand out of their vaginas

 

[ZingerB]

I saw at least 10 or 12 similar hits last year which went unpunished.
Where was everyone last year when many defenders were getting away with murder?

I agree that Lewis will be suspended but the lynch mob mentality makes me laugh.
It was late and crude. He made him earn it, as they say. I reckon 2 weeks tops.

People who are calling for more than that need to wash the sand out of their vaginas

You haven't been able to get away with 'making them earn it' like that for 20 years. I would be surprised if you saw 1 that bad last year. It was far too late to be accidental and he had the option of spoiling with a straight arm, rather than a roundhouse. You can claim that people need to get 'sand out of their vaginas' all you like, but people are rightly calling him out for an extremely unnecessary and dirty hit.

 

[Back One Out]

You haven't been able to get away with 'making them earn it' like that for 20 years. I would be surprised if you saw 1 that bad last year. It was far too late to be accidental and he had the option of spoiling with a straight arm, rather than a roundhouse. You can claim that people need to get 'sand out of their vaginas' all you like, but people are rightly calling him out for an extremely unnecessary and dirty hit.

Last year I saw a few players get half-knocked out and people would say "the defender was just trying to spoil the ball"
The MRP seemed to have a blind spot and nobody said ANYTHING about it.

Lewis was late. Dirty play, worth a couple, but nowhere near as bad as some of the hysterics have claimed.
If he'd broken Goldstein's jaw or KO'd him then I would understand the shrill screams for 5-6 weeks

 

[ZingerB]

Last year I saw a few players get half-knocked out and people would say "the defender was just trying to spoil the ball"
The MRP seemed to have a blind spot and nobody said ANYTHING about it.

Lewis was late. Dirty play, worth a couple, but nowhere near as bad as some of the hysterics have claimed.
If he'd broken Goldstein's jaw or KO'd him then I would understand the shrill screams for 5-6 weeks

It is more the MRP and its stupid rulings. If Fyfe's bump was worth 2 last year Lewis should get 6+. He won't though, because apparently it is worse to accidentally bump someone in the head than intentionally punch them (see Vickery, Conca, Yarran). Then they throw a few spanners in like suspending Jeremy Cameron for a punch that missed and not suspending Franklin for something 5 times worse. If they set a standard of 1-2 weeks for play as poor as that you will find players turning around and king hitting blokes and saying 'I'll take that week now MRP'.

 

[Back One Out]

It is more the MRP and its stupid rulings. If Fyfe's bump was worth 2 last year Lewis should get 6+. He won't though, because apparently it is worse to accidentally bump someone in the head than intentionally punch them (see Vickery, Conca, Yarran). Then they throw a few spanners in like suspending Jeremy Cameron for a punch that missed and not suspending Franklin for something 5 times worse. If they set a standard of 1-2 weeks for play as poor as that you will find players turning around and king hitting blokes and saying 'I'll take that week now MRP'.

But everyone agreed Fyfe's 2 week suspension for that bump was f**kin ridiculous
So why do people use that as some type of benchmark for every incident after that?

It's something that drives me mental about these tribunal/MRP debates. Those 2 clowns on 360 do it all the time. They WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE about some bloke receiving a harsh suspension. But instead of letting it go and seeing it as a one-off mistake, they will then use it as a "precedent" for the next 6 months and try to get everyone else suspended for trivial s**t.

Jeremy Cameron got away with about four blatant snipes in his first 3 seasons which actually hurt opponents. He was given a few lucky let offs. Eventually the MRP had enough of him and rubbed him out. He's lucky he doesn't have four or five black marks against his name.

By the way, Lewis did not "king hit" Goldstein. For f**k's sake. STOP EXAGGERATING! People need to pull their heads out of their arses and stop being wound up by the Channel 7 commentators and stop being wound up by the provocative still photos which DO NOT illustrate what really occurred.

This is a king hit:

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[ZingerB]

But everyone agreed Fyfe's 2 week suspension for that bump was f**kin ridiculous
So why do people use that as some type of benchmark for every incident after that?

It's something that drives me mental about these tribunal/MRP debates. Those 2 clowns on 360 do it all the time. They WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE about some bloke receiving a harsh suspension. But instead of letting it go and seeing it as a one-off mistake, they will then use it as a "precedent" for the next 6 months and try to get everyone else suspended for trivial s**t.

Jeremy Cameron got away with about four blatant snipes in his first 3 seasons which actually hurt opponents. He was given a few lucky let offs. Eventually the MRP had enough of him and rubbed him out. He's lucky he doesn't have four or five black marks against his name.

By the way, Lewis did not "king hit" Goldstein. For f**k's sake. STOP EXAGGERATING! People need to pull their heads out of their arses and stop being wound up by the Channel 7 commentators and stop being wound up by the provocative still photos which DO NOT illustrate what really occurred.

This is a king hit:

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

I could use Ziebell's 4 week suspension from a few years ago, Pavlich's 3 week, hell there would be at least 20 bumps during 2012-14 that were graded too severely. Barry Hall got 7 weeks for king hitting someone. Now that we are protecting players more than ever from all these accidental bumps it is utterly galling to see intentional punches being given fewer weeks. And I am NOT EXAGGERATING. Lewis intentionally roundhouse punched someone in the side of the head. No ifs no buts. The mark had been completed before Lewis wound up so you can call it whatever you like, but it was a disgraceful bit of play and I duly remember all the Hawks supporters calling for Hartlett to be strung up when he gut punched Hill.

 

[Back One Out]

Lewis intentionally roundhouse punched someone in the side of the head. No ifs no buts. The mark had been completed before Lewis wound up

Lewis didn't punch anyone. He struck Goldstein with the inside of his forearm while making a crude, late attempt to spoil the mark. Probably a deliberate strike to the head, but definitely not a punch. No ifs or buts.

It's one thing that people on Big Footy don't even know what a king-hit is and use the term incorrectly. Lately it appears people on here don't even know what a punch is. Clarkson pushed that Adelaide clown in the throat with an open hand (as forcefully as he could) and people described that as a punch.

You use a fist to punch someone.

 

[Valentino]

Brushed him. He will get zilch weeks. Go Hawks.

How did that finish up then?

 

[TyHawk]

Whatever helps you sleep at night mate!

How did that finish up then?

i see some 'new' rules were set to get them extra weeks. Did you not get the memo. Some journos are already 'miffed ' about the new set of rules of contact. They should be, considering both players played on the night and will play next week. Don't woryy about the Hawks too much mate, hate media gave most people what they wanted. I mean seriously, Hodge to tribunal is so dramatic, it brings tears I tell ya, tears!

 

[Valentino]

i see some 'new' rules were set to get them extra weeks. Did you not get the memo. Some journos are already 'miffed ' about the new set of rules of contact. They should be, considering both players played on the night and will play next week. Don't woryy about the Hawks too much mate, hate media gave most people what they wanted. I mean seriously, Hodge to tribunal is so dramatic, it brings tears I tell ya, tears!

Agreed, shoulda just given him 3 without all the drama.