Mega Thread All things Tony Abbott

[Power Raid]

I'm not sure why I keep responding to you.

That is the proposed threshold.

what is the degree with a cap wage of $35k?

sure those on $35k may know it is not easy but with discipline it is more than enough. if you have just survived three or more years on Austudy, you will find it quite a relief to get such a pay rise.

Kids these days!

 

[Play by Numbers]

what is the degree with a cap wage of $35k?

sure those on $35k may know it is not easy but with discipline it is more than enough. if you have just survived three or more years on Austudy, you will find it quite a relief to get such a pay rise.

Kids these days!

So this is what your stupidity boils down to.

 

[Power Raid]

So this is what your stupidity boils down to.

no, I just believe our most privileged people in society receiving a university education should not fear contributing to their education

at the end of the day someone has to pay and why not via HECS when the graduate starts to earn? I also believe our universities should be unshackled from regulation and we have seen standards improve time and time again by deregulation. After all we have a better standard of living today than in the 1980s! yet every time we look to deregulate the usual fear-mongering occurs from the fringe elements only to see everything works out fine.

The $, IR laws, GST, the potato board etc etc are great examples.

I trust you are just young and haven't lived through these changes and the associated fear mongering?

 

[Play by Numbers]

no, I just believe our most privileged people in society receiving a university education should not fear contributing to their education

They do, in the form of higher taxes

 

[medusala]

They do, in the form of higher taxes

What about those who study humanities? What about women who have children soon after leaving university and never pay back their HECS?

How is it a rational policy for a government to heavily subsidise students in certain degrees which have higher unemployment rates than the population in general?

 

[Play by Numbers]

What about those who study humanities? What about women who have children soon after leaving university and never pay back their HECS?

How is it a rational policy for a government to heavily subsidise students in certain degrees which have higher unemployment rates than the population in general?

Do they, do you have some figures to back that up?

Deregulating fees will just lead to a greater debt burden for the taxpayer as fewer repay loans

 

[medusala]

Do they, do you have some figures to back that up?

Done to death on numerous uni threads. Yep, various humanities degrees do. Google is your friend.

Deregulating fees will just lead to a greater debt burden for the taxpayer as fewer repay loans

How can you be sure of that? How do you know what the price elasticity of demand is? If people are disproportionately put off degrees with low earnings potential but not higher earning degrees then its likely the tax take will rise.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Done to death on numerous uni threads. Yep, various humanities degrees do. Google is your friend.



How can you be sure of that? How do you know what the price elasticity of demand is? If people are disproportionately put off degrees with low earnings potential but not higher earning degrees then its likely the tax take will rise.

So you don't?

As for your second point, nonsense, it assumes that there is the demand, the university places and that number of applicants will rise.

 

[medusala]

So you don't?.

Yep, they are on the net as I said and on other threads. Google it.

As for your second point, nonsense, it assumes that there is the demand, the university places and that number of applicants will rise.

Lol. It does nothing of the sort. You seem incapable of grasping price elasticity of demand. The right policy can create higher revenue by changing the mix of degrees ie less arts, more commerce, law etc without increasing the number of university places.

 

[Power Raid]

They do, in the form of higher taxes

nice try but no cigar. I trust you haven't been following the debate about taxing and tax collecting higher income earners.

It wouldn't surprise me if you would be one whining about the same issue.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Lol. It does nothing of the sort. You seem incapable of grasping price elasticity of demand. The right policy can create higher revenue by changing the mix of degrees ie less arts, more commerce, law etc without increasing the number of university places.

Like I said, you are assuming there is demand in the marketplace for these graduates, so higher paying jobs not being filled, that will lead to a greater tax take. This is not true.

 

[Play by Numbers]

nice try but no cigar. I trust you haven't been following the debate about taxing and tax collecting higher income earners.

It wouldn't surprise me if you would be one whining about the same issue.

It would surprise me if you posted something of merit.

 

[mottrain]

Like I said, you are assuming there is demand in the marketplace for these graduates, so higher paying jobs not being filled, that will lead to a greater tax take. This is not true.

After uni life has no relevance to his point.

 

[Play by Numbers]

After uni life has no relevance to his point.

Yes it does. He stated the tax take will increase, as undergraduates are funneled to areas that result in higher graduate salaries. There is an implicit suggestion that inneficiencies in the system are leading to demand for graduates not being met in certain areas.

 

[Power Raid]

Like I said, you are assuming there is demand in the marketplace for these graduates, so higher paying jobs not being filled, that will lead to a greater tax take. This is not true.

you just have a defeatist and alarmist attitude on any changes

even when it involves our brightest and most capable people. It is so sad.

 

[medusala]

Like I said, you are assuming there is demand in the marketplace for these graduates, so higher paying jobs not being filled, that will lead to a greater tax take. This is not true.

Your post makes no sense at all. The argument is simple, if degrees cost more across the board, it is probably demand will shift to those degrees with better employment/ income outcomes. All things being equal, the tax take rises.

In the same manner if the government actually did something rational and didn't extinguish hecs debt for those who never work, then demand for arts degrees would fall as well. Abbott is gutless for not doing this. No reason at all to write that debt off.

 

[Pie eyed]

Your post makes no sense at all. The argument is simple, if degrees cost more across the board, it is probably demand will shift to those degrees with better employment/ income outcomes. All things being equal, the tax take rises.

In the same manner if the government actually did something rational and didn't extinguish hecs debt for those who never work, then demand for arts degrees would fall as well. Abbott is gutless for not doing this. No reason at all to write that debt off.

What will the world do without non-practicing artists??

 

[Pessimistic]

again different issues

I am all for better education and better disability care. That is why I am anti Gonski and anti NDIS.

The federal government should simply hand over the funds to the states rather than duplicating or double handling these portfolios. Both are disasters.

Nitpicking really. Im talking principle and youre deflecting

And dont talk down to me or dont bother

 

[Power Raid]

Nitpicking really. Im talking principle and youre deflecting

And dont talk down to me or dont bother

?

 

[medusala]

There is an implicit suggestion that inneficiencies in the system are leading to demand for graduates not being met in certain areas.

No there isn't. It's about demand for many humanities degrees (caused by underpricing) not existing anywhere near to the extent of supply.

Economics 101

When supply of labour is greater than demand what do you think happens?

 

[Brown Bottle]

lol

what can you say other than lol

Labor loads the nation full of debt to remain in power. They were not nation building or nation saving. They were saving their own ass.

I never said I believed it. Idiocy begets idiocy.

 

[Gibbke]

the debt nevertheless doesn't have to be paid back unless they student earns income above a threshold. the debt has always been charged an interest rate which was traditionally inflation but the proposal is inflation plus a margin (a small margin at that).

The debt can be paid off in instalments or lump sums which resut in up to 25(?)% discounts if I recall correctly. 25% wow!

Smart kids will always know university is a good investment.

And they're smart enough to work out that several hundred thousand dollars of principal plus long term interest on a uni loan might add up to a scenario that makes them no better off than simply joining the workplace with a TAFE certificate. It staggers me that in the last several pages you haven't been able to see this, or see the consequences that could result, using typically Liberal simplistic arguments...

 

[madmug]

And they're smart enough to work out that several hundred thousand dollars of principal plus long term interest on a uni loan might add up to a scenario that makes them no better off than simply joining the workplace with a TAFE certificate. It staggers me that in the last several pages you haven't been able to see this, or see the consequences that could result, using typically Liberal simplistic arguments...

Its the old right wing thing that nothing has a value & everything has a cost, unless it applies to the right 'chaps' in society. ie the supperannuation rip off, the family Trusts rip off etc etc.

 

[Maggie5]

The Labor mess will take a generation to fix. 6 years of chaos and two decades of pain of which our youth will pay the highest price.

It is disgraceful that 10-18yo's who can't vote have been burdened with so much debt. I wonder if Labor will send out Christmas cards each year to these kids with a their individual debt balance?

View attachment 97993

I agree the age group you care so much about will have a lot too worry about if there are many people like you looking after No.1
Your thoughts on Super:

super is a rort
I would strongly recommend everyone close their super, register an entity in NZ (no CGT) and invest in Oz and globally. That way:
1) you are in control
2) no fees but you can engage someone if you want
3) no longer limited by the australian corporations act preventing you from being treated as a professional investor meaning you get the same 20% discounts when buying stock as insto's.
4) a labor government can't just come in and increase super tax from 15 to 30% (better still you pay 0% on CGT (rules apply))
5) you have no limits on where you invest
6) you have no tax when you distribute
7) you have no compliance costs such as audits
8) all funds can be kept in Oz, NZ or anywhere else in the world

Or
"I guess that is why I shifted my business and a good chunk of personal holdings offshore and into FX"

Yep Tony is getting very likeable as long as he looks after the right people who can afford good accountants and use the rules and regs to benefit them.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I agree the age group you care so much about will have a lot too worry about if there are many people like you looking after No.1
Your thoughts on Super:

Or
"I guess that is why I shifted my business and a good chunk of personal holdings offshore and into FX"

Yep Tony is getting very likeable as long as he looks after the right people who can afford good accountants and use the rules and regs to benefit them.

Andrew Elder brings the hammer down on Credlin:http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/