I was at that game... i think there was 18k there from memory??ParraEelsNRL said:
Broncos Fan said:For all you unenlightened pagans on this board, you truly do make me laugh.
RL is played in more nations than AR could ever hope to dream of. In reality Rugby league completely dwarfs Aussie Rules to the point that Aussie Rules world wide is virtually non-existant. You might have run into a few people who saw aussie rules, but just how many devote their time and effort to it outside of australia? Even within australia the nrl more just holds its own...its exeeds the aussie rules in many key areas. In fact, RL has gained more worldwide in the past five years than AUSSIE RULES HAS IN ITS ENTIRE HISTORY in australia and outside.
Just this year alone, Argentina and the West Indies have started their own competitions. While new, these are real competitions with a wide interest. Other nations that play league (i.e dont just run around but have real competitions are - and some you most likely have never heard of because the media here are not interested in telling you.) Belgium, Germany, France, Wales, Scotland, England, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, the entire pacific islands (many nations there) U.S.A., South Africa, Russia, Lebannon, papua new guinea, morroco, serbia...the list goes on.
NRL players in Papua New Guinea are literally given god-status...can any afl player claim that outside victoria?
The notion that league is only played in the north of england is archaic to say the least. Rl has always been played across the length and breadth of england. Recently however, it has enjoyed an explosion of growth in europe. In england alone, there are 3 new leagues hierarchy's below super league, (SL which is generally dominated by northern clubs - has seen a 500%+ increase in participation, which coincides with rugby union's falling participation rates, and an increase in school players and weekend players for league). The government there has noticed this and through sports england is funding league to a greater degree. Super league in england is enjoying record attendances, the game regulary sees 90,000 attendances, this year alone getting 72,000 for the challenge cup final in wales, an area traditionally seen as a non-league area. But this is all changing. Clubs are leaving union in droves to play league, and where they are staying they are taking up league as well. Over 1000 schools in and around london alone play league. 5 years ago this was not possible with the Union ruling body dictating that anyone who plays league will be banned from Union.
Even to exist against its backward thinking father Union, league has had to fight hard.
Now with freedom of movement, there is nothing stopping league from asuming its dominant position in the sporting psyche.
Scottish rugby league has doubled its participation rates, and ireland has doubled its teams in its competition. It is enjoying a penetration into schools in those nations as well, something previously before was not possible. Welsh league is at its strongest point ever, and their team came within an inch of beating australia in the last wc semi final they played in. Wales has over 20,000 registered players. Scotland has 10,000+, remember these are comps that have just started after the dark veil of union's strangehold was removed - one that penetrated in many levels of society. League has fought against persecution in europe such as the media persecutes league in melbourne, except its been doing it for years, and yet through all of it, because league is such a great game, league has survived and thrived.
The top european nations play in the european nations cup.
Here follows an international fixtures list from the arl website....these are the games that concern Australians to some degree
From the ARL website:
October
Saturday 2nd
Ionio Cup - Italy v Greece
Sunday 3rd
NRL Grand Final (put in i guess to provide some perspective of dates for australian readers...yes we do exist outside of austalia, there's a whole world out there.
Wednesday 6th
Mediterranean Cup - Featuring France, Lebanon, Morocco and Serbia in Lebanon
Saturday 9th
Australia v Papua New Guinea at Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville
Mediterranean Cup - Featuring France, Lebanon, Morocco and Serbia in Lebanon
Tuesday 12th
Jim Beam Cup Representative Side v Auckland Residents
Saturday 16th
Tri Series: New Zealand v Australia, Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
Jim Beam Cup Representative Side v New Zealand A, Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
Papua New Guinea v Junior Kangaroos, Port Moresby
Sunday 17th
Pacific Cup: Round 1
European Nations Cup: Wales v Ireland
European Nations Cup: Russia v France
Tuesday 19th
Pacific Cup: Round 2
Thursday 21st
Pacific Cup: Round 3
Saturday 23rd
Tri-Series: Australia v New Zealand, Loftus Rd Stadium, London
Pacific Cup: Final
Sunday 24th
European Nations Cup: Scotland v Wales
European Nations Cup: Russia v England
Wednesday 27th
Cumbria v Anzacs(Combined Kiwis and Kangaroos)
Saturday 30th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v Australia, City of Manchester Stadium
Sunday 31st
European Nations Cup: Ireland v Scotland
European Nations Cup: France v England
November
Saturday 6th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v New Zealand, McAlpine Stadium, Huddersfield
Sunday 7th
European Nations Cup: Final
Saturday 13th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v Australia, JJB Stadium, Wigan
Test Match: France v New Zealand
Saturday 20th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v New Zealand, KC Stadium, Hull
Test Match: France v Australia
Saturday 27th
Tri-Series: Final
December
Wednesday 1st
USA v Australia, New York
As you can see, it is a pretty lively test schedule.
A new french side is entering the top flight European Super League in 2006, further showing the game in france is strong. Perigan, the new french side will play on top of the already existing local french league, which enjoys wide support.
There are more registered players in Russia alone, than there are registered sports players in Australia for all sports combined....they have something like 500,000+ registered players, or it may have been even more, pushing 1 million!!! Russian rugby league has exploded phenominally in the past 5 years. They now have a vibrant comp and conduct international tours. International touring teams tour russia these days as well, like the GB u18's, etc. ...given that league has just recently began in russia it will be some years (another 5-10) before we see their youth-touring sides playing against australia. BUt it will happen. They have such a large talent pool of players that competitive games are just a step away on the international level at top flight...we have already seen a few russian players playing in the nrl.
In australia ofcourse, nrl games consistantly outrate afl games, with 11 games per season drawing higher than 1 million viewers, to the afl's 8. The brisbane broncos are australia's most supported team, closely followed by collingwood in the afl. Further, rugby league has the highest paying sponsors. The Melbourne storm have a 4 million dollar sponsorship. The NRL competition is screened into European countries including england and wales and ireland every weekend, and the finals series (would be the whole comp except because of pay tv contracts) is shown into the U.S.A and has received raging reviews. It is also shown into Asia. In europe especially the tv ratings figures are good. Ofcourse the nrl is also screened into new zealand and on national radio in papua new guinea.
State of origin rugby league is the number one sporting event during the year apart from each codes respective grand finals. Origin tickets are the hottest properties in town. Origin 2 in brisbane last year sold out within 25 mins. That floggs the afl's brisbane lions sellout comparitively - via more tickets roughly same time. Also viewing figures for such games flog anything any other sport has.
International league in australia also beats anything afl or Union can throw at it in australia. The only comparison we have recently is the last GB side to play in australia. That match was the highest rating international league match since 1994, and we all know what happened after that year. That match flogged the living hell out of any Union game in terms of people being interested, watching, and attending it.
Since Sl in australia league has recovered the ground its lost and then some. Since 1999, league has been breaking its own records each year for total attendances, sponsorships, merchandise sales, tv ratings, participation rates, in fact across all of the major and minor categories.
What other sport in this country can claim that?
Also the perth and adealide issue should not be ignored. The Perth RL has lodged an application to the nrl for inclusion in the premieship...they beleive they can maintain a side on the feild in the NRL...the reason you have not heard about it is that they did not make a big deal about it...in fact they have approached the nrl several times.
Many areas are knocking on the door of the nrl to be included in the comp. NRL is much sought after property. Adelaide, central coast region, perth, gold coast, wellington in NZ, are just some of the regions who wish to join the nrl.
Rugby league is a growing sport. It is one of the fastest growing sports worldwide.
But you must understand that growth costs lots of money, and that money which is needed, cannot be seen by the powers that be in the current competition climate. If we had it our way we would see teams in all those areas, but unfortunately if the current clubs (such as in afl) cannot be sustainable largely by themselves, then why should they have to stretch their budgets even further to accomodaste another team?
Sydney siders have never been noted for attending games....look at any sport in sydney and you will see below-par support at grounds in comparison to some areas, yet this year and last, have seen more sold out games in sydney than at any other time in rl's history. Leighhardt oval, home of the wests tigers saw them break the ground record everytime they play there. Penrith sell out their stadium each week and last year broke the ground record at every home game! Same with St george illawarra, at both their home grounds.
Stadium upgrades are happening everywhere....recently we have seen the broncos move to the new suncorp stadium/old lang park....and they are on track to draw a 30,000 average this season, 10,000 up on last year...and they have already played in front of 48,000, 50,000, 42,000, 38,000 crowds. Better than most lions games....they even got 25,000 to see wests tigers which in recent years has only drawn 15,000. The cowboys are getting a stadium upgrade, newcastle are in the process at the moment,canberra have received one, brisbane have received one, wests tigers received one, stg illawarra have received one, and both stg illa and wests tigers want another to their existing upgrades(on the other home grounds)
contrary to some of your beleifs the highest regular sydney attendance this year is 28,000, which is more than double what most of you probably think.
Crowds are not the only indication of how a competition does in the market place. Pay tv lives off rugby league, and would be dead without it...and figures there have doubled in the past 2 seasons. FTA showing of league is at record levels.
The FTA contract is mooted to go for 50 million per season+, and some beleive that it should sell for anything up to around 90-100 million per season.
Yes you read right...if you want to know the value of a sport in this country, look at its FTA agreements/potential....nine make close to 300 million alone off league per season, and through bad management at a bad time, they sold for only 15 million. Their current market value is well over 50 million between 50 and 100 million - and thats per season. Flogs the AFL hands down.
Look, at the end of the day, both sports have their weak and strong points....sure, i have chosen to highlight some of rl'S strong points, but that doesnt mean afl is weak or not worth watching or playing.
Each to his own. They are two entirely different sports. I just wanted to show where rl stands in the wider picture. And that is, rugby league is a fast growing sport, which is showing sign of only growing even larger in the years to come internationally and at home in australia.
There is only one place league can go and that is up. There is a huge amount of potential for league....why do you think one of the worlds largest companies tried to take it over? Even if they are overly financial-based in their desire of it, league has more than enough room to grow....i wish i could say the same for afl.
League has a lot more to look forward to
Thats a disgrace they had to turn away 5,000 fans. Thats about the fifth time this season people have come out to the game and had to go home.
I agree.Mark Rudd said:
I know its happening, but gee its a real contest isnt it?ParraEelsNRL said:also over in old England, females are taking to league in numbers that make some of those figures there look small.
and sid just because our news paper reporters and television anouncers don;t tell us anything about league outside of australia,doesn't mean it isn't happening.
I think everyone is laughing at you after posting this. No links, no sources. If the NRL was so popular, you'd have a national game with national FTA and even some networks would have shows dedicated to talking about RL, but you don't. I find that rather embarrassingBroncos Fan said:For all you unenlightened pagans on this board, you truly do make me laugh.
RL is played in more nations than AR could ever hope to dream of. In reality Rugby league completely dwarfs Aussie Rules to the point that Aussie Rules world wide is virtually non-existant. You might have run into a few people who saw aussie rules, but just how many devote their time and effort to it outside of australia? Even within australia the nrl more just holds its own...its exeeds the aussie rules in many key areas. In fact, RL has gained more worldwide in the past five years than AUSSIE RULES HAS IN ITS ENTIRE HISTORY in australia and outside.
Just this year alone, Argentina and the West Indies have started their own competitions. While new, these are real competitions with a wide interest. Other nations that play league (i.e dont just run around but have real competitions are - and some you most likely have never heard of because the media here are not interested in telling you.) Belgium, Germany, France, Wales, Scotland, England, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, the entire pacific islands (many nations there) U.S.A., South Africa, Russia, Lebannon, papua new guinea, morroco, serbia...the list goes on.
NRL players in Papua New Guinea are literally given god-status...can any afl player claim that outside victoria?
The notion that league is only played in the north of england is archaic to say the least. Rl has always been played across the length and breadth of england. Recently however, it has enjoyed an explosion of growth in europe. In england alone, there are 3 new leagues hierarchy's below super league, (SL which is generally dominated by northern clubs - has seen a 500%+ increase in participation, which coincides with rugby union's falling participation rates, and an increase in school players and weekend players for league). The government there has noticed this and through sports england is funding league to a greater degree. Super league in england is enjoying record attendances, the game regulary sees 90,000 attendances, this year alone getting 72,000 for the challenge cup final in wales, an area traditionally seen as a non-league area. But this is all changing. Clubs are leaving union in droves to play league, and where they are staying they are taking up league as well. Over 1000 schools in and around london alone play league. 5 years ago this was not possible with the Union ruling body dictating that anyone who plays league will be banned from Union.
Even to exist against its backward thinking father Union, league has had to fight hard.
Now with freedom of movement, there is nothing stopping league from asuming its dominant position in the sporting psyche.
Scottish rugby league has doubled its participation rates, and ireland has doubled its teams in its competition. It is enjoying a penetration into schools in those nations as well, something previously before was not possible. Welsh league is at its strongest point ever, and their team came within an inch of beating australia in the last wc semi final they played in. Wales has over 20,000 registered players. Scotland has 10,000+, remember these are comps that have just started after the dark veil of union's strangehold was removed - one that penetrated in many levels of society. League has fought against persecution in europe such as the media persecutes league in melbourne, except its been doing it for years, and yet through all of it, because league is such a great game, league has survived and thrived.
The top european nations play in the european nations cup.
Here follows an international fixtures list from the arl website....these are the games that concern Australians to some degree
From the ARL website:
October
Saturday 2nd
Ionio Cup - Italy v Greece
Sunday 3rd
NRL Grand Final (put in i guess to provide some perspective of dates for australian readers...yes we do exist outside of austalia, there's a whole world out there.
Wednesday 6th
Mediterranean Cup - Featuring France, Lebanon, Morocco and Serbia in Lebanon
Saturday 9th
Australia v Papua New Guinea at Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville
Mediterranean Cup - Featuring France, Lebanon, Morocco and Serbia in Lebanon
Tuesday 12th
Jim Beam Cup Representative Side v Auckland Residents
Saturday 16th
Tri Series: New Zealand v Australia, Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
Jim Beam Cup Representative Side v New Zealand A, Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
Papua New Guinea v Junior Kangaroos, Port Moresby
Sunday 17th
Pacific Cup: Round 1
European Nations Cup: Wales v Ireland
European Nations Cup: Russia v France
Tuesday 19th
Pacific Cup: Round 2
Thursday 21st
Pacific Cup: Round 3
Saturday 23rd
Tri-Series: Australia v New Zealand, Loftus Rd Stadium, London
Pacific Cup: Final
Sunday 24th
European Nations Cup: Scotland v Wales
European Nations Cup: Russia v England
Wednesday 27th
Cumbria v Anzacs(Combined Kiwis and Kangaroos)
Saturday 30th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v Australia, City of Manchester Stadium
Sunday 31st
European Nations Cup: Ireland v Scotland
European Nations Cup: France v England
November
Saturday 6th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v New Zealand, McAlpine Stadium, Huddersfield
Sunday 7th
European Nations Cup: Final
Saturday 13th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v Australia, JJB Stadium, Wigan
Test Match: France v New Zealand
Saturday 20th
Tri-Series: Great Britain v New Zealand, KC Stadium, Hull
Test Match: France v Australia
Saturday 27th
Tri-Series: Final
December
Wednesday 1st
USA v Australia, New York
As you can see, it is a pretty lively test schedule.
A new french side is entering the top flight European Super League in 2006, further showing the game in france is strong. Perigan, the new french side will play on top of the already existing local french league, which enjoys wide support.
There are more registered players in Russia alone, than there are registered sports players in Australia for all sports combined....they have something like 500,000+ registered players, or it may have been even more, pushing 1 million!!! Russian rugby league has exploded phenominally in the past 5 years. They now have a vibrant comp and conduct international tours. International touring teams tour russia these days as well, like the GB u18's, etc. ...given that league has just recently began in russia it will be some years (another 5-10) before we see their youth-touring sides playing against australia. BUt it will happen. They have such a large talent pool of players that competitive games are just a step away on the international level at top flight...we have already seen a few russian players playing in the nrl.
In australia ofcourse, nrl games consistantly outrate afl games, with 11 games per season drawing higher than 1 million viewers, to the afl's 8. The brisbane broncos are australia's most supported team, closely followed by collingwood in the afl. Further, rugby league has the highest paying sponsors. The Melbourne storm have a 4 million dollar sponsorship. The NRL competition is screened into European countries including england and wales and ireland every weekend, and the finals series (would be the whole comp except because of pay tv contracts) is shown into the U.S.A and has received raging reviews. It is also shown into Asia. In europe especially the tv ratings figures are good. Ofcourse the nrl is also screened into new zealand and on national radio in papua new guinea.
State of origin rugby league is the number one sporting event during the year apart from each codes respective grand finals. Origin tickets are the hottest properties in town. Origin 2 in brisbane last year sold out within 25 mins. That floggs the afl's brisbane lions sellout comparitively - via more tickets roughly same time. Also viewing figures for such games flog anything any other sport has.
International league in australia also beats anything afl or Union can throw at it in australia. The only comparison we have recently is the last GB side to play in australia. That match was the highest rating international league match since 1994, and we all know what happened after that year. That match flogged the living hell out of any Union game in terms of people being interested, watching, and attending it.
Since Sl in australia league has recovered the ground its lost and then some. Since 1999, league has been breaking its own records each year for total attendances, sponsorships, merchandise sales, tv ratings, participation rates, in fact across all of the major and minor categories.
What other sport in this country can claim that?
Also the perth and adealide issue should not be ignored. The Perth RL has lodged an application to the nrl for inclusion in the premieship...they beleive they can maintain a side on the feild in the NRL...the reason you have not heard about it is that they did not make a big deal about it...in fact they have approached the nrl several times.
Many areas are knocking on the door of the nrl to be included in the comp. NRL is much sought after property. Adelaide, central coast region, perth, gold coast, wellington in NZ, are just some of the regions who wish to join the nrl.
Rugby league is a growing sport. It is one of the fastest growing sports worldwide.
But you must understand that growth costs lots of money, and that money which is needed, cannot be seen by the powers that be in the current competition climate. If we had it our way we would see teams in all those areas, but unfortunately if the current clubs (such as in afl) cannot be sustainable largely by themselves, then why should they have to stretch their budgets even further to accomodaste another team?
Sydney siders have never been noted for attending games....look at any sport in sydney and you will see below-par support at grounds in comparison to some areas, yet this year and last, have seen more sold out games in sydney than at any other time in rl's history. Leighhardt oval, home of the wests tigers saw them break the ground record everytime they play there. Penrith sell out their stadium each week and last year broke the ground record at every home game! Same with St george illawarra, at both their home grounds.
Stadium upgrades are happening everywhere....recently we have seen the broncos move to the new suncorp stadium/old lang park....and they are on track to draw a 30,000 average this season, 10,000 up on last year...and they have already played in front of 48,000, 50,000, 42,000, 38,000 crowds. Better than most lions games....they even got 25,000 to see wests tigers which in recent years has only drawn 15,000. The cowboys are getting a stadium upgrade, newcastle are in the process at the moment,canberra have received one, brisbane have received one, wests tigers received one, stg illawarra have received one, and both stg illa and wests tigers want another to their existing upgrades(on the other home grounds)
contrary to some of your beleifs the highest regular sydney attendance this year is 28,000, which is more than double what most of you probably think.
Crowds are not the only indication of how a competition does in the market place. Pay tv lives off rugby league, and would be dead without it...and figures there have doubled in the past 2 seasons. FTA showing of league is at record levels.
The FTA contract is mooted to go for 50 million per season+, and some beleive that it should sell for anything up to around 90-100 million per season.
Yes you read right...if you want to know the value of a sport in this country, look at its FTA agreements/potential....nine make close to 300 million alone off league per season, and through bad management at a bad time, they sold for only 15 million. Their current market value is well over 50 million between 50 and 100 million - and thats per season. Flogs the AFL hands down.
Look, at the end of the day, both sports have their weak and strong points....sure, i have chosen to highlight some of rl'S strong points, but that doesnt mean afl is weak or not worth watching or playing.
Each to his own. They are two entirely different sports. I just wanted to show where rl stands in the wider picture. And that is, rugby league is a fast growing sport, which is showing sign of only growing even larger in the years to come internationally and at home in australia.
There is only one place league can go and that is up. There is a huge amount of potential for league....why do you think one of the worlds largest companies tried to take it over? Even if they are overly financial-based in their desire of it, league has more than enough room to grow....i wish i could say the same for afl.
League has a lot more to look forward to
Thats a disgrace they had to turn away 5,000 fans. Thats about the fifth time this season people have come out to the game and had to go home.
Soccer is probably the only "truly national" football code and it's a distant 4th in the football code rankings. Comparing AFL and NRL, the AFL is more national in its coverage (congratulations), but far from truly national.Mickey said:I think everyone is laughing at you after posting this. No links, no sources. If the NRL was so popular, you'd have a national game with national FTA and even some networks would have shows dedicated to talking about RL, but you don't. I find that rather embarrassing
Clearly, others do care. Some even delude themselves into thinking it matches RL worldwide.. they know who they are (where are they though outlining the AFL international scene in response?). Others recognise that AFL is primarily a southern states of Australia game, with good levels of growth in the northern states, and nothing at the internaional level.
True.The only thing I care about is the Australian cricket team - now thats national
No doubt the RL WC cannot offer the depth of talent that a RU WC can offer. For that reason, I don't think you'll see a RL WC staged in the same manner as a RU WC in the future. It can't compete. In 2008, Australia is hosting a RL WC that will be different to a RU WC. It will be a celebration of 100 years of Rugby League at all levels of the game.Sid said:
Absolutely. Nobody is suggesting a sport is lesser without international status.David Votoupal said:
What sort of international following are you referring to? Expat Australians overseas is not an international following. An international following to me connotes residents from foreign countries taking an interest. This may happen but not on a large scale because they dont identify with any team and so have no emotional involvement.
Yeah.
What "huge chasm"? RL Test Matches are the icing on the cake at the end of 2 very succesful domestic seasons.
I'm sure you'll find quite a few Kiwis, Brits or Americans who come over here and discover Aussie Rules, and realise what a great game it is and take it to their hearts. And more who no doubt know about it.littleduck said:
Well there is a gap between the established nations (Australia, New Zealand, England) and the rest, though Wales, Papua New Guinea and France are or at least have potential to be competitive. No doubt there are other countries who play the sport at some level, and hopefully they will become more competitive if the game's administrators are willing to help with development.
no reply?
