ASADA case against Essendon hanging by a thread (The Age, 1 Nov 14)

[morgoth]

Auditors are like Dementors. They suck the happiness out of everyone. I've never met one I've liked.

That's probably because you are s**t at your job. If there are no issues to resolve you pretty much get left alone.

 

[Clems Knee]

That's probably because you are s**t at your job. If there are no issues to resolve you pretty much get left alone.

Yeah, no. Auditors are the useless third. Their job is to stop other people doing their job, and get them to explain what job it is that they are doing. If an auditor is really good at their job, they will multiply the number of auditors needed, until the people who actually do a real job are suffocated by the plague of auditors.
If you are an auditor you have no real purpose in life, and should consider the next one.

 

[Sector 7G]

Yeah, no. Auditors are the useless third. Their job is to stop other people doing their job, and get them to explain what job it is that they are doing. If an auditor is really good at their job, they will multiply the number of auditors needed, until the people who actually do a real job are suffocated by the plague of auditors.
If you are an auditor you have no real purpose in life, and should consider the next one.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Auditors just make you comply with,regulation, legislation Standards and company policies. Generally that comprises a persons job. Don't the blame auditors if you are too lazy to fill out the forms to comply or your company has cumbersome systems that make it impossible for staff to comply. That is not the auditors fault.

I'll tell you one thing EFC would have been in a better place (even better than the one Hirdy is in at the moment) if someone had audited that their procedures and operating systems to see that they complied with AFL regs.

 

[yaco55]

I used to audit govt depts, work is probably a bit of an over statement. More like you exist or occupy space.

Laziest ****s I have ever encountered.

Sure - But Auditors create extra work - Seen the same thing in HK in private enterprise.

 

[yaco55]

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Auditors just make you comply with,regulation, legislation Standards and company policies. Generally that comprises a persons job. Don't the blame auditors if you are too lazy to fill out the forms to comply or your company has cumbersome systems that make it impossible for staff to comply. That is not the auditors fault.

I'll tell you one thing EFC would have been in a better place (even better than the one Hirdy is in at the moment) if someone had audited that their procedures and operating systems to see that they complied with AFL regs.

Absolutely true - An oversight by the AFL - From my limited knowledge this is one area the AFL could focus more - They've beefed up their integrity unit so should have necessary resources.

 

[Sector 7G]

Absolutely true - An oversight by the AFL - From my limited knowledge this is one area the AFL could focus more - They've beefed up their integrity unit so should have necessary resources.

Wrong

Workcover don't require companies to audit a companies OH&S procedure, the Company directors do so that if something does go wrong they can say they have taken reasonable steps to prevent problems and if problems do occur it is not their problem. When workplace injuries happen Workcover don't say gee we should have more auditors, we dropped the ball on that one. They prosecute and fine/jail.

I am sick of this culture of it is not my fault. Man up and own our decisions.

 

[mediumsizered]

Wrong

Workcover don't require companies to audit a companies OH&S procedure, the Company directors do so that if something does go wrong they can say they have taken reasonable steps to prevent problems and if problems do occur it is not their problem. When workplace injuries happen Workcover don't say gee we should have more auditors, we dropped the ball on that one. They prosecute and fine/jail.

I am sick of this culture of it is not my fault. Man up and own our decisions.

The EFC have encouraged a culture of deflection throughout this doping debacle, so it comes as no surprise some of their supporters have followed suit.

 

[yaco55]

Wrong

Workcover don't require companies to audit a companies OH&S procedure, the Company directors do so that if something does go wrong they can say they have taken reasonable steps to prevent problems and if problems do occur it is not their problem. When workplace injuries happen Workcover don't say gee we should have more auditors, we dropped the ball on that one. They prosecute and fine/jail.

I am sick of this culture of it is not my fault. Man up and own our decisions.

Why have the AFL boosted their Integrity Unit ? One which is the best resourced of any code in Australia. Obviously the Integrity Unit is tasked with maintaining the integrity of the game and one which will cut across O H and S issues.

I am happy for the AFL to be more proactive in this area.

 

[yaco55]

The EFC have encouraged a culture of deflection throughout this doping debacle, so it comes as no surprise some of their supporters have followed suit.

The irony of your post - You are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing - Roll out another stock standard line to stifle any debate about issues - I am big and ugly enough to form my opinions.

 

[pugthemagician]

Why have the AFL boosted their Integrity Unit ? One which is the best resourced of any code in Australia. Obviously the Integrity Unit is tasked with maintaining the integrity of the game and one which will cut across O H and S issues.

I am happy for the AFL to be more proactive in this area.

The AFL are not responsible for the OH&S of the AFL Clubs. This has always been the responsibility of each clubs.

If ppl are hoping for some liability to be shifted on to the AFL in relation to OH&S and Worksafe then that may be a long shot.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The AFL are not responsible for the OH&S of the AFL Clubs. This has always been the responsibility of each clubs.

If ppl are hoping for some liability to be shifted on to the AFL in relation to OH&S and Worksafe then that may be a long shot.

Therefore the Integrity Unit would not even have a remit for th

Yes OHS is about the Employer - Employee relationship i.e. who pays the player, who hires the player, who sacks the player, who disciplines the player.

 

[Max Headroom]

Yes OHS is about the Employer - Employee relationship i.e. who pays the player, who hires the player, who sacks the player, who disciplines the player.

Wasn't the AFL busy claiming that they were the player's employers for the purposes of the recent court case challenging the admissibility of the player's evidence? If so that may come back to bite them.

 

[mxett]

Wasn't the AFL busy claiming that they were the player's employers for the purposes of the recent court case challenging the admissibility of the player's evidence? If so that may come back to bite them.

that's a fair point. The players were compelled to answer questions as AFL employees despite the fact they were within their rights to remain silent as athletes under the WADA code.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Wasn't the AFL busy claiming that they were the player's employers for the purposes of the recent court case challenging the admissibility of the player's evidence? If so that may come back to bite them.

They can claim what they like, it won't change the law, and as I understand it their argument was knocked out

 

[Baltimore Jack]

that's a fair point. The players were compelled to answer questions as AFL employees despite the fact they were within their rights to remain silent as athletes under the WADA code.

When driving a car you are required to give answers to Police if you are pulled over, but that doesn't make them your employer

 

[mxett]

When driving a car you are required to give answers to Police if you are pulled over, but that doesn't make them your employer

a driver is unlikely to be employed by and working for a section of the police force

 

[Baltimore Jack]

a driver is unlikely to be employed by and working for a section of the police force

But he/she could be
A Truck Driver is governed by VIC Roads, he is not employed by them

 

[pugthemagician]

Wasn't the AFL busy claiming that they were the player's employers for the purposes of the recent court case challenging the admissibility of the player's evidence? If so that may come back to bite them.

that's a fair point. The players were compelled to answer questions as AFL employees despite the fact they were within their rights to remain silent as athletes under the WADA code.

The CBA Between the AFL and the AFLPA covers these SAFE Work Place.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CBA-2012-2016-FINAL.pdf

37. SafeWorkingEnvironment

(a) Each AFL Club, as the employer of Players, has obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety legislation in the respective States to take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of Players at work. Each AFL Club shall set up appropriate workplace consultative procedures involving Players and other employees consistent with relevant Occupational Health and Safety legislation to progress health and safety issues.

(b) The parties agree to maintain a standing committee on Occupational Health and Safety comprising representatives of the AFL, AFLPA, AFL Clubs, AFL Medical Directors and where appropriate venue operators. The Committee shall consider and address OH&S matters affecting players generally. The Committee shall meet at least twice a year to conduct its business and shall provide a report after each meeting to the AFL Commission and AFLPA Executive in relation to all matters dealt with.

 

[Sector 7G]

The CBA Between the AFL and the AFLPA covers these SAFE Work Place.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CBA-2012-2016-FINAL.pdf

37. SafeWorkingEnvironment

(a) Each AFL Club, as the employer of Players, has obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety legislation in the respective States to take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of Players at work. Each AFL Club shall set up appropriate workplace consultative procedures involving Players and other employees consistent with relevant Occupational Health and Safety legislation to progress health and safety issues.

(b) The parties agree to maintain a standing committee on Occupational Health and Safety comprising representatives of the AFL, AFLPA, AFL Clubs, AFL Medical Directors and where appropriate venue operators. The Committee shall consider and address OH&S matters affecting players generally. The Committee shall meet at least twice a year to conduct its business and shall provide a report after each meeting to the AFL Commission and AFLPA Executive in relation to all matters dealt with.

Principal contractors write clauses into contracts that their subcontractors are responsible for their own OH&S but ultimately the principal is responsible for OH&S on site. Would be interesting to see how it plays out. You can put any clause you like in a contract, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is enforceable.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Principal contractors write clauses into contracts that their subcontractors are responsible for their own OH&S but ultimately the principal is responsible for OH&S on site. Would be interesting to see how it plays out. You can put any clause you like in a contract, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is enforceable.

Exactly and in Victoria any such "agreements" are made void via section 21 (3) of the OHS Act 2004

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

The CBA Between the AFL and the AFLPA covers these SAFE Work Place.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CBA-2012-2016-FINAL.pdf

37. SafeWorkingEnvironment

(a) Each AFL Club, as the employer of Players, has obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety legislation in the respective States to take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of Players at work. Each AFL Club shall set up appropriate workplace consultative procedures involving Players and other employees consistent with relevant Occupational Health and Safety legislation to progress health and safety issues.

(b) The parties agree to maintain a standing committee on Occupational Health and Safety comprising representatives of the AFL, AFLPA, AFL Clubs, AFL Medical Directors and where appropriate venue operators. The Committee shall consider and address OH&S matters affecting players generally. The Committee shall meet at least twice a year to conduct its business and shall provide a report after each meeting to the AFL Commission and AFLPA Executive in relation to all matters dealt with.

Seems like a typical chain of responsibility for OH&S. AFL can point to (b) and refer to the 6mthly reports as part of compliance to the OH&S Act, (the courts will decide whether this is sufficient or not - if it ever makes it).

The question is whether EFC can point to the something similar in assuring they also complied to the Act, obviously they will need to provide something on a more granular level in regards to actions with the players.......

 

[Max Headroom]

The CBA Between the AFL and the AFLPA covers these SAFE Work Place.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CBA-2012-2016-FINAL.pdf

37. SafeWorkingEnvironment

(a) Each AFL Club, as the employer of Players, has obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety legislation in the respective States to take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of Players at work. Each AFL Club shall set up appropriate workplace consultative procedures involving Players and other employees consistent with relevant Occupational Health and Safety legislation to progress health and safety issues.

(b) The parties agree to maintain a standing committee on Occupational Health and Safety comprising representatives of the AFL, AFLPA, AFL Clubs, AFL Medical Directors and where appropriate venue operators. The Committee shall consider and address OH&S matters affecting players generally. The Committee shall meet at least twice a year to conduct its business and shall provide a report after each meeting to the AFL Commission and AFLPA Executive in relation to all matters dealt with.

Thanks for that excerpt. I don't believe it should reduce Essendon's OH&S culpability btw (morally speaking).

They can claim what they like, it won't change the law, and as I understand it their argument was knocked out

Are you saying the AFL's argument was knocked out? It was them arguing that the players were compelled to answer as they were ultimately employees of the AFL. Sorry if I am misunderstanding your post, I only have a superficial knowledge of the case.

 

[Spongebob]

Wasn't the AFL busy claiming that they were the player's employers for the purposes of the recent court case challenging the admissibility of the player's evidence? If so that may come back to bite them.

Can you please point me to the court case involving the AFL?

Seems there was one with ASADA and Hird and EFC. I don't recall AFL being part of any.

btw, I believe the coercive powers cover all players and officials registered with the AFL, paid by clubs or volunteers.

 

[mediumsizered]

The irony of your post - You are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing - Roll out another stock standard line to stifle any debate about issues - I am big and ugly enough to form my opinions.

Did you happen to notice I used the word 'some' in relation to EFC supporters? Only if the cap fits should you wear it.

 

[Dave]

When driving a car you are required to give answers to Police if you are pulled over, but that doesn't make them your employer

Other than confirming your identity, what else are you unable to refuse to answer