No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[bomberman500]

The man who got a two-year contract extensions while many others involved in this are no longer at the club?

Oh, but poor Hirdy.

With all the s**t he has copped from all angles the last 2 months I think he would happily trade in that 2 year contract extension for his reputation back...

So yes... Poor Hird

 

[Mercurial89]

The problem with the initial PR strategy was two fold. Firstly, as Ben noted, it allowed the story from one side only to be told and that became the accepted, incontrovertible truth among so many people. Then, changing tack as we did around August 2013- by then, most people's impressions and opinions were so set in stone by then that our sudden bluster looked like desperate, flailing obfuscation.

It's interesting to ponder what the strategy would have been had Little been in charge in February 2013 and not Evans, and where the narrative of the saga would have gone as compared to where it did.

Its also worth noting that the Vic media are far more dedicated to this story than the NSW media, my mates tell me it doesnt get the airtime it gets here in regards to cronulla.

 

[bomberman500]

Really - So the reasoned decision to have Hird play a back-seat role until the end of Essendon's 2014 campaign is because of media pressure, but yet the Hangar video from March effectively stated this would happen. Yeah - It was media influence !

I think the only difference from March to now was that he would have no influence in the 2014 season. He was always going to come back, I'd hazard a guess that Essendon planned to use Hird as a bit-part coach (obviously not head coach), and a bit of a lift for the players in the form of a crucified hero returning....

But the Media machine had other ideas and the club chose to make him have no part in the 2014 campaign. This was always bombers gig for 2014, the club, Hird and bomber have said this numerous times. However the media made it seem like Hird was coming back for the job in R23, which forced the club to act

 

[Jade]

Kelvin, this is not a path I ever want to see us go down in this thread.

Yaco is every bit as much an Essendon fan as you, or Ben, or Pros, or 60sbomber, or rines, or Jade, or I. Or any of us. That our views diverge at several key points does not diminish that.

The thing that determines whether you're a fan is whether you want ultimate success for the club. That can take many different paths and this sort of emotive appeal doesn't really do you any favours.

If yaco was sitting here saying he hopes the club crashes and burns, then you might have a point. But he's not.

Personally I'm a bit worried about that Hirdismyhero bloke.

Strikes we as cold, and dare I say it..... soulless.

 

[Jade]

I never do that and I resent you accusing me off it. As a moderator you can take your powers too far and it's just not fair. While some may say that I'm being unreasonable by picking on you, I must ask you this. Is it wrong that I stand up to your tyranny? Should you be allowed to silence any discussion on one hand and encourage the use of debating tricks with the other.

Please Doss, stop killing babies.

Not sure if extracting the urine?

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Personally I'm a bit worried about that Hirdismyhero bloke.

Strikes we as cold, and dare I say it..... soulless.

Yeah, plus his hero is Hird and God knows he's the root of all evil.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Not sure if extracting the urine?

Keep up mate

 

[bomberman500]

Listening to the news at the moment.
Vic ALP is under fire for its "handling" of the Baillieu recordings.
It seems they have come into possession of information which could have been detrimental to the Liberals, and exactly how they came to have it, who they gave it to, and whether it was ethical or right to leak such improperly obtained information is the issue they are being hammered for.

Anyone see any parallels/contradictions?

Fairfax (the Witch) has come by leaked details of an ASADA/AFL investigation that is supposed to be confidential.
And yet no-one cares how this happened or whether it is right that it should have been reproduced in newspaper reports. Everyone just homes in on what juicy bits have been leaked.

But when it comes to the Baillieu tapes, no-one cares about the content of the tapes, just the impropriety of the way the information was obtained.

Its funny as Fairfax is usually pro ALP but as they are at the center of the story they have gone into full defensive mode, shifting whatever blame they can off them and onto the ALP

But I see it as a massive contradiction to our situation. Fairfax/ASADA/AFL

Prove that the supplement program was the brainchild of Hamilton and Robson - Then I'll accept your view.

Prove that an illegal supplements program was the brainchild of Hird...

Hamilton and Robson were the superiors of Hird who wanted a legal supplements program

Hird was the superior of Dank who wanted an (illegal?) supplements program

So your argument about the innocence of Hamilton and Robson can be used to justify the innocence of Hird

 

[Doss]

Not sure if extracting the urine?

Urine was being extracted...

 

[Jade]

Urine was being extracted...

Ahh..... play on.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Its funny as Fairfax is usually pro ALP but as they are at the center of the story they have gone into full defensive mode, shifting whatever blame they can off them and onto the ALP

But I see it as a massive contradiction to our situation. Fairfax/ASADA/AFL


Prove that an illegal supplements program was the brainchild of Hird...

Hamilton and Robson were the superiors of Hird who wanted a legal supplements program

Hird was the superior of Dank who wanted an (illegal?) supplements program

So your argument about the innocence of Hamilton and Robson can be used to justify the innocence of Hird

There's a bit more at play with the Vic ALP vs Fairfax thing right now. Apparently it might have something to do with the Libs freezing Fairfax out in the past and Fairfax are trying to win them over before the next election. Or at least, that's what I've heard.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

With all the s**t he has copped from all angles the last 2 months I think he would happily trade in that 2 year contract extension for his reputation back...

So yes... Poor Hird

You could quite easily suggest Hird wants those years to prove himself and get his reputation back. To say he will be hugely motivated would be the understatement of the century. I just hope Bomber stays and joins him.

 

[bomberman500]

The players will be fine. I think most people are 90% on that (I'm closer to 99.9). People aren't jumping to the defence of the players because it isn't the players that are being targeted by the media.

Hird is more of a 70-30 due to the fact it appears people in power and others with influence have an agenda against him. That is why he is defended.

I'm curious as to who you see as the blameless "other club figures"? Nobody is calling out Bomber for coming to the club and insisting on bulking up the players. Nobody is blaming McCartney for recommending the club hire Robinson. But some are still peddling the line that it all is...

Hird's fault.

Agree entirely.

I think the reason so many people are very pro-Hird is because of the Anti-Hird foaming media... the old balance/counter-balance article
Whereas a lot of the campaigners want to crucify Hird with no evidence and heaps of allegations and inuendo I, and others defend him with the premise of innocent until proven guilty

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Its funny as Fairfax is usually pro ALP but as they are at the center of the story they have gone into full defensive mode, shifting whatever blame they can off them and onto the ALP

But I see it as a massive contradiction to our situation. Fairfax/ASADA/AFL


Prove that an illegal supplements program was the brainchild of Hird...

Hamilton and Robson were the superiors of Hird who wanted a legal supplements program

Hird was the superior of Dank who wanted an (illegal?) supplements program

So your argument about the innocence of Hamilton and Robson can be used to justify the innocence of Hird

In an organisational chart sense, Hird was not Dank's superior.

Robinson, Hamilton, Corcoran, Robson and Evans were.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I agree with most of that, except the bolded. We should have been up front with the media and agressive against stupid comments. However, that was probably not an easy thing to do early because I'm guessing for the first week everyone thought that they had done the right thing but couldn't be 100% sure of everyone else.

Once the board and staff felt confident they should have leaked heavily to News Ltd AND Fairfax. There are a couple of journalists at Fairfax that would have liked to push a more balanced approach to the story. I also get the impression that Connolly, Quayle, Flannagan and other decent writers at Fairfax would see Caro for the flog she is.

Even now leaking to New Ltd only has left an us against them battle in the press which drives Fairfax harder to push against the bombers.

Similarly Tracey Holmes on the ABC, surely there's a reporter on SBS who'd be interested in our side of the story. Also finding a journalist at independent outlets like the Conversation, or even get Hardie to right articles for it about the story.

Finally the club should be filming a doco about the whole affair. If the key staff at Essendon were able to talk candidly in the doco interviews safe in the knowledge that it would be completely safe from leak until after it was all settled it would be great to compare it to articles and video clips of comments in a sequential manner. The creme de la creme would be a plant in the scrum that harrasses Hirdy at his house to expose the scummy ambulance chasers, how they go about their business and how they view the world.

I don't think we could have done everything upfront, such as presenting documents, correspondence etc. That's where leaking has its uses.

 

[bomberman500]

Legal is fine but when the Governing body has queries over the legality of the program it's a cause for concern. And whether it's right or wrong, ASADA has issues with the supplements programs - Though this is more a case of political interference.

They can have all the issues they want...
But at the end of it all there are either Legal supplement programs, or Illegal supplement programs.
If we cheated we will rightly cop our whack
If we didn't cheat ASADA/AFL need to step the F**K off

No grey area!!

 

[Ben the Gooner]

They can have all the issues they want...
But at the end of it all there are either Legal supplement programs, or Illegal supplement programs.
If we cheated we will rightly cop our whack
If we didn't cheat ASADA/AFL need to step the F**K off

No grey area!!

This is the crux of it, and the point that yaco is missing.

To use an analogy, the cops can suspect you of drink driving all they like, but if you blow under 0.05, their suspicions are irrelevant.

 

[bomberman500]

The club is always bigger than the INDIVIDUAL - There can be no other way.

Agreed, but sticking up for the individual doesn't mean putting him before the club.

There is no need to hang the individual to prove loyalty to the club, thats mob mentality

 

[bomberman500]

Its also worth noting that the Vic media are far more dedicated to this story than the NSW media, my mates tell me it doesnt get the airtime it gets here in regards to cronulla.

The NRL has learnt from the AFL f**k up. Its gone to ground and when quizzed by any journo it just says "the investigation is ongoing"

Plus all the NRL journo foamers are having a field day picking apart the AFL over this, no need to mention cronulla

 

[84859300]

In an organisational chart sense, Hird was not Dank's superior.

Robinson, Hamilton, Corcoran, Robson and Evans were.

This point is correct.

Though, it didn't stop Hird from having influence over the operation.

 

[Mercurial89]

The NRL has learnt from the AFL f**k up. Its gone to ground and when quizzed by any journo it just says "the investigation is ongoing"

Plus all the NRL journo foamers are having a field day picking apart the AFL over this, no need to mention cronulla

Yeah from what ive heard where the Vic media is very keen to pull teams to pieces and analyse scandals (coaches who should be sacked,players who should retire, DRUGZ etc) the NSW media focus on all negative things about AFL and mostly good things about NRL.

 

[bomberman500]

Yeah from what ive heard where the Vic media is very keen to pull teams to pieces and analyse scandals (coaches who should be sacked,players who should retire, DRUGZ etc) the NSW media focus on all negative things about AFL and mostly good things about NRL.

NRL and their media have been in a seige mentality ever since expansion was announced. If they AFL/Essendon was not involved they would be picking themselves to pieces, but they (NRL, NSW/NRL media) have a common enemy now

 

[Lance Uppercut]

From one cat to another, *hiss*.

Okay, back on topic.

still off-topic. my two year old son absolutely loves your avatar. Last night he was on my lap as I was posting (I know, I know, father of the year amirite) and going "cat! cat!" at your avatar. 'twas very cute.

 

[Doss]

still off-topic. my two year old son absolutely loves your avatar. Last night he was on my lap as I was posting (I know, I know, father of the year amirite) and going "cat! cat!" at your avatar. 'twas very cute.

Your son is a boy of impeccable taste. Once he grows up enough to read the drivel I post, he probably won't like me or my cat anymore.

 

[DonsRule]

Your son is a boy of impeccable taste. Once he grows up enough to read the drivel I post, he probably won't like me or my cat anymore.

Lance could bring him to Tanked.

He may learn that lesson quicker.

And give him another vote for father of the year too.