Australian cheating at Newlands, where to from here?

[BRWB]

Lol. Sacrificial lambs? Bro, once again Smith, Warner, and Bancroft "chose" to cheat. CA had nothing to do with the decision. It's like everyone wants to blame CA for their stupidity.

Not sure its that black and white. I agree they should be punished. But CA and world cricket have played a big part in creating the environment for allowing something like this to occur.

Oh and for those saying Australia acting wouldnt matter or make a difference. Think again. SA captain and head of ICC already calling for change. (Not saying that should be the reason for CA acting as it has)

 

[peppy la pew]

In a couple of days. I suspect he’ll be seeking legal council first. And we may hear greater revelations.

I caught a grab of him yesterday doing a J Hird, hiding behind his wifes skirt and holding the 2 kids. Obviously trying to garner public sympathy

I agree he will no doubt lawyer up and drag this out instead of copping a whack and moving on.

Wasn't it terrible that no CA reps were on hand to offer support for Smith and Bancroft at their respective pressers, as Kingy said at least the CEO of the WACA was on hand to support Bangers, Smiffy was hung out to dry.

Sutherland is pathetic as leader of this organisation, get rid of him and start again.

 

[Percel]

Warner is a good bloke.

People painting smithy as the good guy. He is the captain.

Warner is a spineless bogan, lowlife scum.

 

[Percel]

 

[Percel]

Davey Boy bus riding on the interwebs chatting to Jimmy H about bus undercarriage space options?

#isthereanyspaceleft?

 

[Percel]

The exiled Australian opener will hold a press conference at 11am at Cricket New South Wales’ offices on Saturday, having touched down in Sydney late on Thursday night.

No rush davey, rest up big guy

#candaceneedsacuzzybru

 

[King Elvis]

No rush davey, rest up big guy

#candaceneedsacuzzybru

It’s Good Friday.

 

[King Elvis]

Back in 2007 I formed a view of CA and Sutherland when he caved in to BCCI pressure around the monkeygate affair with Singh racially abusing Symonds. The match referree Proctor had two witnesses who stated unequivocally that Singh had used the monkey word and knew English. He was dumbfounded by CA lack of strength. Gutless performance to cave in and reduce the charge from the pressure. Symonds lost all motivation and was never the same again and dropped off the scene

If the game is in chaos with ball tampering (and it is - we all know it is) then have the guts to call it and drive change NOT by offering australian players (once again) as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter but by kicking BCCI and other despicable regimes in the balls and forcing acceptance of higher moral conduct. Nah that would he too hard for Sutherland - easier just to sacrifice someone or three. Gutless

Great post.

The divide from Monkeygate can’t heal while Sutherland is still there; he continues to hang our players out to dry.

What’s the bet the legislative outcome of this will be to weaken the rules on ball tampering?

 

[JackOutback]

This is all quite honourable, but how does Aus cricket look if we own up to organised cheating, when no other country will? We'd be one out, while all the other countries that practice 'ball management' sit back and let us and get pasted. All teams do it to some extent, we just took it too far and got caught. Where were the Saffas when Faf was caught....twice.

It needs to be stamped out by the umpires, they need to check the ball after every over. Then the penalties should be in line with what we've levied. We're actually leading the way here, no other cricket association has had the balls(albeit forced) to be as tough as we have.

Cameron Bancroft was asked explicitly how he was drawn into this and his response was 'I'm not going to talk about other players'. So just to clarify, he's not going to talk about what actually happened (likely on the advice of CA). That's bullshit and it means we're left with only a vague idea of what happened and an impression among many that others were involved and are being protected. So the whole team wears the cheat tag because no one has the balls to be honest about what happened.

How do you deal with it? You say this goes on in cricket, we can't prove other teams do it, though clearly a number of people have been found guilty of it, and it's up to their boards to decide how they handle it. But Australia has engaged in it before, we won't do so again, we'll push for the rule changes you suggested to ensure it doesn't happen again. Like I said, **** marketing, these idiots should be ignored, this will blow up in their faces when Warner decides to write his book. Wear the pain now and not later. At least they will have the respect of fans.

Your bullshit is easier to digest in the Star Wars threads.

Ditto your lack of contribution.

 

[kickazz]

There are other forums for those topics.

No shit

 

[STK2020]

So that's why they could take the moral high ground, they cheated differently?

No both are equally shit but three are Australian.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Cameron Bancroft was asked explicitly how he was drawn into this and his response was 'I'm not going to talk about other players'. So just to clarify, he's not going to talk about what actually happened (likely on the advice of CA). That's bullshit and it means we're left with only a vague idea of what happened and an impression among many that others were involved and are being protected. So the whole team wears the cheat tag because no one has the balls to be honest about what happened.

How do you deal with it? You say this goes on in cricket, we can't prove other teams do it, though clearly a number of people have been found guilty of it, and it's up to their boards to decide how they handle it. But Australia has engaged in it before, we won't do so again, we'll push for the rule changes you suggested to ensure it doesn't happen again. Like I said, **** marketing, these idiots should be ignored, this will blow up in their faces when Warner decides to write his book. Wear the pain now and not later. At least they will have the respect of fans.


Ditto your lack of contribution.

They are wearing the pain.

 

[Raging Blue]

The penalty is very harsh but a breakdown of the penalty could be seen something like this:

4 months for the act

4 months for the sheer brazen visual embarrassing footage

4 months for the culture change

The first 4 months should be the penalty with loss of leadership roles. They would have the same remorse & embarrassment. And lost their sponsorship etc

The second 4 months was an emotional reaction l believe to the lead up to this test. The lack of precedent by the ICC to stamp out this sought of behaviour & overturning the Rabada penalty a week earlier. If this was done previously, why use bright yellow sandpaper & not say white sandpaper. By the use of yellow sandpaper, it tells to me it was a spur of a moment decision. It's not to say other methods have not been used past.

The last 4 months for example (culture) is not the fault of the players. A young Captain was not given the same support as previous Captains. A bit of a perfect storm as Warner was the only established batsman. The coach & CA have more to answer for this. Maybe they could've had extra mentors in this transitional period.

For these reasons l believe the penalties are too harsh & say 4 months would have had the same effect & more fairer to the players involved.

 

[DJMac]

The court of public opinion which every way you look at, should be relevant in framing the punishment. To ignore this is to ignore the financial realities that underpin the game. We have already witnessed the commercial implications of Smith and co’s actions. Commercial decisions based upon community standards. Naive to think otherwise.

The commercial implications were directly linked to the level of community outrage and the response from CA.
The Essendon Football Club retained most if not all of their sponsors through a much more protracted and serious matter. I doubt that South Africa or India or England lost any sponsors from their ball tampering cases.

It is CA and the morally outraged that have created this situation and caused the commercial losses.

 

[JackOutback]

They are wearing the pain.

Not all of it, and they are trying to manage it, push it on to just a couple of players (which isn't fair to them either). This is still a PR exercise to CA.

 

[Number37]

Cameron Bancroft was asked explicitly how he was drawn into this and his response was 'I'm not going to talk about other players'. So just to clarify, he's not going to talk about what actually happened (likely on the advice of CA). That's bullshit and it means we're left with only a vague idea of what happened and an impression among many that others were involved and are being protected. So the whole team wears the cheat tag because no one has the balls to be honest about what happened.

How do you deal with it? You say this goes on in cricket, we can't prove other teams do it, though clearly a number of people have been found guilty of it, and it's up to their boards to decide how they handle it. But Australia has engaged in it before, we won't do so again, we'll push for the rule changes you suggested to ensure it doesn't happen again. Like I said, **** marketing, these idiots should be ignored, this will blow up in their faces when Warner decides to write his book. Wear the pain now and not later. At least they will have the respect of fans.


Ditto your lack of contribution.

If they came clean they could just dump all the other national teams into the shit by referencing the other times the ball was tampered with.
Start a war & make the other countries address why their players cheated.
Instead they're trying to make out like it only happened one time & Warner was the mastermind behind it (because everybody already thinks he is the only one capable of being a shit bloke).

Bancroft lied about never having done it before.
Smith lied about it never happening before.

Cry and ask for forgiveness at the same time as lying through your teeth...the public are buying it too.
No wonder these blokes think they can do what they want!!

 

[TheLoris]

Cameron Bancroft was asked explicitly how he was drawn into this and his response was 'I'm not going to talk about other players'. So just to clarify, he's not going to talk about what actually happened (likely on the advice of CA). That's bullshit and it means we're left with only a vague idea of what happened and an impression among many that others were involved and are being protected. So the whole team wears the cheat tag because no one has the balls to be honest about what happened.

How do you deal with it? You say this goes on in cricket, we can't prove other teams do it, though clearly a number of people have been found guilty of it, and it's up to their boards to decide how they handle it. But Australia has engaged in it before, we won't do so again, we'll push for the rule changes you suggested to ensure it doesn't happen again. Like I said, **** marketing, these idiots should be ignored, this will blow up in their faces when Warner decides to write his book. Wear the pain now and not later. At least they will have the respect of fans.


Ditto your lack of contribution.

Yeah, there's no easy solution. Say it was an orchestrated plan by the coaches and all players. How can you admit to that? The entire Aus cricket setup would be banned and our game would be destroyed for an action that others have been slapped on the wrist for. Is it fair that we should be martyrs for the entire cricket world?

They are already saying that it could cost CA 2 to 3 hundred million on the TV rights negotiation. While I would love to know out of curiosity what happened, I don't think we should have our game destroyed over it.

The ICC needs to strong and clear what will happen going forward, then all countries can be judged equally.

 

[JackOutback]

If they came clean they could just dump all the other national teams into the shit by referencing the other times the ball was tampered with.
Start a war & make the other countries address why their players cheated.
Instead they're trying to make out like it only happened one time & Warner was the mastermind behind it (because everybody already thinks he is the only one capable of being a shit bloke).

Bancroft lied about never having done it before.
Smith lied about it never happening before.

Cry and ask for forgiveness at the same time as lying through your teeth...the public are buying it too.
No wonder these blokes think they can do what they want!!

That's what shits me the most; Bancroft and Smith's emotional response was real and honest, but they are still lying. They are lying that it has never happened before, they are likely lying that no one else knew of it. It's harder to move on when you are not being honest with people. But to reiterate, the blame lies with CA, which is 'managing' this scandal, right now Bancroft and Smith are just following orders.

 

[thejockey]

Possible a long bow to draw but I know Smith was basically plucked out and put into the NSW system at around 15-16 with the extended view to groom him to play for Australia

So since then has only really been focussed on cricket and maybe hasn't developed some life skills that Joe public does that may have help him deal with someone like Warner

Its easy to say he should have done this or done that , perhaps he simple never had the skills or life experience to do so

I still believe the biggest mistake was appointing Warner VC , when your appointing someone to leadership simple because you feel with a title they will be easier to handle your asking for trouble

 

[thejockey]

I’m not a huge fan of him, but credit to Faf for his latest.

There's certainly a mutual respect between him and Smith and I think most of the Australian side bar Warner

 

[JimDocker]

Won't it be intresting that India finally win their first test series here but there will be a huge asterisk over it due to the circumstances.

India won’t win here

 

[Number37]

That's what shits me the most; Bancroft and Smith's emotional response was real and honest, but they are still lying. They are lying that it has never happened before, they are likely lying that no one else knew of it. It's harder to move on when you are not being honest with people. But to reiterate, the blame lies with CA, which is 'managing' this scandal, right now Bancroft and Smith are just following orders.

I'm not so sure it is all CA driven.

Bancroft & Smith are trying to cover for their mates, admirable, but when the truth comes out they are going to cop it again. And the truth will come out. The way the media and public are now hounding Warner, they will leave him with no option but to throw everyone under the bus.

Lehman quit because the guilt got to him. How long before one of the other players cracks?

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Not all of it, and they are trying to manage it, push it on to just a couple of players (which isn't fair to them either). This is still a PR exercise to CA.

Some folks are never satisfied.

 

[JackOutback]

Some folks are never satisfied.

No, I'm not satisfied that CA is still not being honest, and I'm not satisfied that the bulk of the pain and punishment is being pushed on to three players. Sutherland is a clown and should be shown the door. Why should he be the one to oversee Australia's cultural change when he's been in charge of that culture for 20 years. He can piss right off.

 

[IHurley]

Some folks are never satisfied.

this is why only fools ever confess in the court of public opinion.

Good people know not to crucify people who make mistakes anyway and bad people (ie virtue signallers) will just see your confession as a sign of weakness and will poke holes in your confession in order to extract more blood.

If only we could make virtue signalling a capital crime. Every nation on earth would be a utopia.