Autopsy Autopsy. Just stop the game Gil. These fools are criminals.

[Ball Dont Lie]

Just so I am clear when people use the terms “rebuild”, “young team”, “kids”, I assume we are talking about Sheez and is WAP and Powell? That’s 3/23. Did I miss someone else young on the weekend?

 

[Tas]

Obviously that isn’t part of the plan, someone clearly blew their assignment. I’d have to think if it wasn’t Clarko working on the plan they’d have been playing man on man very quickly after the first few times

Man on man is dead, you have to protect zones, but to be able to do that you need to keep the right structure. For whatever reason we were drawn out of position way too often and just coughed up way to many over the top or out the back goals.

It was a disappointing loss but I think our standard was pretty good for the first half of the first quarter, we have an issue with form of a number of players and the cracks are exposed under pressure. I think we will play better but Clarkson isn't a Scott or Lyon type of defensive oriented coach so when we have guys like McKay, Corr, McDonald, etc not playing good footy by their own standards then things can fall apart pretty quickly when under the pump.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Hawks playing all the kids and clearing out the dead wood seems to be working for them
Is our list and drafting so bad we can’t do likewise?

Given that we plummeted to 18th and stayed there when we cleared deadwood and played more kids, I’m going to say yes. Clearly North is now trying to correct that by playing some older players alongside the kids, bringing in Shiels and Logue as better quality older players, and hoping now we also have some better kids to put on the field the balance will work better.

I’m also not going to be sucked into deciding what big picture strategy is “working“ after five games.

 

[Carey4life]

Given that we plummeted to 18th and stayed there when we cleared deadwood and played more kids, I’m going to say yes. Clearly North is now trying to correct that by playing some older players alongside the kids, bringing in Shiels and Logue as better quality older players, and hoping now we also have some better kids to put on the field the balance will work better.

I’m also not going to be sucked into deciding what big picture strategy is “working“ after five games.

Logue is only 25 years old...

Hardly 'old'.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

Given that we plummeted to 18th and stayed there when we cleared deadwood and played more kids, I’m going to say yes. Clearly North is now trying to correct that by playing some older players alongside the kids, bringing in Shiels and Logue as better quality older players, and hoping now we also have some better kids to put on the field the balance will work better.

I’m also not going to be sucked into deciding what big picture strategy is “working“ after five games.

I agree but for me not enough kids are actually playing. We only played 3 on the weekend. Happy to lose but ideally we get more games into the young players. In the long run that has to be better for the club.

 

[Gasometer]

If yesterday we swapped directly:

Howe, Shiels, Lmac, Corr, Turner, Goldie,

For

Bergman, goater, Perez, Bonar, Curtis, CCJ

We probably would have lost by 75 points.

If we played a man on man defensive structure we would have lost by 36.

We still would have had JZ, Cunnington and Greenwood over 30.

We all would be feeling much better this morning.

We could then be debating the merits of Taylor and Scott. We could be arguing on the viability of playing 2 rucks. We could be putting up trade suggestions for the clear gaps. Instead it just feels hopeless.

Had we have had the alternative list in we would be be annoyed but not this level of annoyance wth the demographics that played Saturday who offer nothing come 2025 onwards

 

[lockheed]

LDU had a fair game but wasn't impactful. Do people feel that he just had a relatively poor game, that he was overwhelmed by the Lions midfielders when Jy went off, or that he played injured?

 

[kaboom kid]

JZ has been great, true. But other than his 25 touches I dont think he's adding any long term benefit. If it's for leadership, then why can't JMAC and Logue provide that? Let's find another player who can get those 25 touches that won't retire in the next 12 months.

Turners had a couple standout games, but again, isn't the long term answer. Find a small forward/back (Archer, Drury) and make them play like Turner. Then, when they have 5-6 touches and a poor game, at least they're building experience.

I thought JMAC retired a couple of years ago? Not sure picking him up via the Rookie Draft is the way to go?

 

[Le Grille]

I agree but for me not enough kids are actually playing. We only played 3 on the weekend. Happy to lose but ideally we get more games into the young players. In the long run that has to be better for the club.

They still need to earn their spot, again if it’s round 12 and the same guys are playing sure that’s a problem. But for now those guys are place holders

 

[Ischenko]

Just so I am clear when people use the terms “rebuild”, “young team”, “kids”, I assume we are talking about Sheez and is WAP and Powell? That’s 3/23. Did I miss someone else young on the weekend?

Comben. I agree we were too old on the weekend. But our future spine minus Xerrri and the bulk of the players Clarkson has said need to take the club forward - LDU, Jy, Larkey, McKay, Zurharr, Stevo, Scott, Tucker, Taylor (question marks over the last three aside) - were playing. By years end we need to hope and pray that Bergman (likely) Curtis (almost certain) Goater (fairly likely), Wardlaw (looks good but yet to play AFL) and someone like Perez or Archer or * maybe even Laz are entrenched in the 22.

 

[DuckYeah]

Hawks playing all the kids and clearing out the dead wood seems to be working for them
Is our list and drafting so bad we can’t do likewise?

The fundamental difference is coaching systems. Sam Mitchell would have similar fundamentals which would have been driven by a consistent coach through Clarkson. So therefore would be easier to tweak and adjust for new strategies.

We have had BS, Shaw, nobles, Clarkson all with very different fundamental structures with this group at various stages of their development. Thats not easy as a young player in a footy team.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

They still need to earn their spot, again if it’s round 12 and the same guys are playing sure that’s a problem. But for now those guys are place holders

Did Turner, Howe, Shiels earn their spot? Pretty sure all 3 were delisted in 2022

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Is LDU not young now? Jy? Larkey? even Buckets? It’s not as dramatic as when Xerri, Curtis, Goater and Bergman were all available and preferred but it’s not an old team - just one that at the moment has averages skewed by a few very senior guys.

 

[Le Grille]

Did Turner, Howe, Shiels earn their spot? Pretty sure all 3 were delisted in 2022

All three had good preseasons, so yeah.

 

[ferball]

Logue is only 25 years old...

Hardly 'old'.

Logue and Jy are 2016 draft. BMac is 2015.

Everyone drafted after that is "young" imo. Those guys are prime age for footy.

 

[Passmore]

 

[BTRAIN2]

At the end of this match I pondered over the following possible conclusions:

1) This is all part of learning a new game plan and we WILL cop some smashings. We are playing a risky game style and I believe that Clarko is trying to teach them to be play offensively, but also be aware that if you don't hold your defensive structure, you are absolute cactus. We will learn it the hard way but you know what, we WILL learn it by doing this. In life, you learn from doing and I honestly believe that Clarkson would consider a couple of damn big shellackings to be a requirement of building toward the ultimate goal.

2) Clarko has completely lost his marbles because playing like that against a team like Brisbane, is possibly the worst coaching decision I can remember.

 

[BigRedRoo]

LDU had a fair game but wasn't impactful. Do people feel that he just had a relatively poor game, that he was overwhelmed by the Lions midfielders when Jy went off, or that he played injured?

All of the above.

 

[Yianni]

The fundamental difference is coaching systems. Sam Mitchell would have similar fundamentals which would have been driven by a consistent coach through Clarkson. So therefore would be easier to tweak and adjust for new strategies.

We have had BS, Shaw, nobles, Clarkson all with very different fundamental structures with this group at various stages of their development. Thats not easy as a young player in a footy team.

Definitely. Hawks have cut dead wood, but at least most of the blokes there have had a year playing with each other, and under Mitchell's leadership.

Guys, it's not always about 'youth' in the age sense, but the 'youth' of the group. Think of it as continuity. Victory and success needs time and guidance. Sometimes a new coach comes in to a club that's had continuity but no guidance and gets results. Very rarely do you get a coach come in to a club that's been a basket case, with list turnover like ours, and find immediate success. It's very, very hard.

Given we have a new coach, new players, some players have new roles, the whole team has a new gameplan, and the most games any of our blokes have played together with the same coach is 5 (for comparison, Geelong have players who have played over 150 games both together and under Chris Scott. Hardly anyone on that team has played 5 or less games together and with their coach)

What I'm saying is that the age profile isn't definitive and is a very narrow metric of why we should be at point X or point Y. When you're trying to get 22 guys to play together in a new way for the first time, you might argue that younger blokes can be quicker at picking it up, but less composed at doing it onfield whilst older blokes might struggle to change longstanding habits, but be better at implementation during a game.

My point is, stop looking for an easy answer, ready comparison or anything like that. We're all pissed at the performance last weekend, we all got excited at 2-0 with Hawthorn to come and we've hit the ground with a thud. That's okay, that's footy.

Think of it this way, if we'd lost the first two and we were 0-5, this win wouldn't have hurt as much as it did. Does that mean it would be better to have lost two less games? No, of course not. Stop trying to solve something that's quite normal just because it hurts. It's good that it hurts, it means we have hope.

Pair that hope with some trust, and reasonable expectations of where we actually are (listen to Clarkson's presser after the Freo game. He says we're a long way away from the finished product. And we are) and we'll be fine. I know that's hard when you've sat through the 36 month period we all have! But Clarkson, Hood and team haven't let us down yet. Just trust that and be ready with the pitchforks if/when they do.

 

[Troy Make Peace]

Saturday was a hard watch but realistically we're still 2 years off from even pushing for the 8. My takeaways were:

• Our game plan relies on good ball use & applying pressure at the source. Having so many turnovers & minimal upfield pressure on the ball made our team defence look as bad as it did.
• He has a few knockers, but jy is our best two way runner and him getting subbed out hurt big time.
• Desperately need some more quality ball users coming off the flanks and wings.
• Lacking a geniuine crumber/goal sneak up forward
• Comben will be good with time

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

All three had good preseasons, so yeah.

It’s a shame then that Curtis, Goater and Bergman didn’t have as good a preseasons as those 3 because based on game day evidence I would say they were ahead. We will see if that’s the same blokes running around in round 12. Gut feel is it will be

 

[zoomba23]

LDU had a fair game but wasn't impactful. Do people feel that he just had a relatively poor game, that he was overwhelmed by the Lions midfielders when Jy went off, or that he played injured?

I thought his game was crap, which might be a reflection of how good he's become. 23 touches and I remember about 3 of them. Had to have been playing injured imo. Had no burst at all

 

[giantroo]

 

[giantroo]

Brisbane (152) - (77) North Melbourne​

Cornes: “It says more about North Melbourne.


“I’m not sure what defensive structure Alastair Clarkson is trying to get and whether it’s the right one for a young, rebuilding group.


“To guard space and zoning, it’s not working, it looked like they gave up.


“To concede 33 easy marks inside 50, a lot of them were that, it just says to me they’re essentially not bringing the effort that was there for the first two weeks under Alastair Clarkson.


“Every record was essentially broken – 116 points off turnover, 33 marks inside 50 – the midfield strength they supposedly have got absolutely smashed.


“It’s not Clarko’s cluster anymore, it’s Clarko’s catastrophe.”

Winners and losers: The result of each Round 5 game and who it says more about

Each game dissected.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Devington]

Brisbane (152) - (77) North Melbourne​

Cornes: “It says more about North Melbourne.


“I’m not sure what defensive structure Alastair Clarkson is trying to get and whether it’s the right one for a young, rebuilding group.


“To guard space and zoning, it’s not working, it looked like they gave up.


“To concede 33 easy marks inside 50, a lot of them were that, it just says to me they’re essentially not bringing the effort that was there for the first two weeks under Alastair Clarkson.


“Every record was essentially broken – 116 points off turnover, 33 marks inside 50 – the midfield strength they supposedly have got absolutely smashed.


“It’s not Clarko’s cluster anymore, it’s Clarko’s catastrophe.”

Winners and losers: The result of each Round 5 game and who it says more about

Each game dissected.

www.sen.com.au

The zoning has worked more than it hasn't, and the midfield strength kinda suffered once our second best mid broke his hand lol.

Personally never thought it looked like we gave up, we were just out pressured and our gameplan was exploited to hell and back. Oh, and they're an outright better team.