Strategy Brisbane Lions Coaching and Staff Thread

[lukiuslion]

The current AFL Average for injured players, per team is 6.9 players missing. We are missing 12, I would suggest that figure would be replicated fairly similarly over the last 3 years, I know we ranked number 1 for injuries in 2014. Burton has been in that position for a long time, IMO he hasn't been successful and I believe it's time for him to be replaced. No doubt he is a nice Guy and likeable character and I know he lends himself well to being defended, but I personally think it's time. Not only the injury numbers, but our lack of size, inability to finish Quarters and games out and Josh Green coming back totally out of shape, are other direct indicators our current program is not working.

 

[James North]

Should we fire Kevin Mitchell Jr? Is it definitely our fitness staff?

 

[Tendo Jones]

The current AFL Average for injured players, per team is 6.9 players missing. We are missing 12, I would suggest that figure would be replicated fairly similarly over the last 3 years, I know we ranked number 1 for injuries in 2014. Burton has been in that position for a long time, IMO he hasn't been successful and I believe it's time for him to be replaced. No doubt he is a nice Guy and likeable character and I know he lends himself well to being defended, but I personally think it's time. Not only the injury numbers, but our lack of size, inability to finish Quarters and games out and Josh Green coming back totally out of shape, are other direct indicators our current program is not working.

I am in 100% agreement. Port really turned themselves around when getting their fitness coach (Burgess), I really think we can do the same. That confidence running out a game, the late-quarter decision making, the small bodies after being on a list for a few years... can all be fixed.

 

[blynd_freddie]

The current AFL Average for injured players, per team is 6.9 players missing. We are missing 12, I would suggest that figure would be replicated fairly similarly over the last 3 years, I know we ranked number 1 for injuries in 2014. Burton has been in that position for a long time, IMO he hasn't been successful and I believe it's time for him to be replaced. No doubt he is a nice Guy and likeable character and I know he lends himself well to being defended, but I personally think it's time. Not only the injury numbers, but our lack of size, inability to finish Quarters and games out and Josh Green coming back totally out of shape, are other direct indicators our current program is not working.

5 are 'suggested' to come off ours this/next week, would bring us close to your suggested 7 average.

I know we ranked number 1 for injuries in 2014 - source?

Others for a current comparison - http://www.afl.com.au/news/injury-news/injury-list

Josh Green out of shape? So what is his 'normal/previous'

 

[James North]

Some very big names from other clubs on that list, blynd_freddie ...

 

[blynd_freddie]

Some very big names from other clubs on that list, blynd_freddie ...

Bloody Birdman, the AFL needs to do a Royal Commission!

 

[winged1]

Bloody Birdman, the AFL needs to do a Royal Commission!

Aish could do it!

 

[blynd_freddie]

Aish could do it!

Outside the box thinking, Me like!

 

[Hysteria25]

Lets trade Aishy for Burgess

 

[nickstar]

I am in 100% agreement. Port really turned themselves around when getting their fitness coach (Burgess), I really think we can do the same. That confidence running out a game, the late-quarter decision making, the small bodies after being on a list for a few years... can all be fixed.

I agree as well, the team is too small and we just bounce off the ball. The problem we have is finding someone like Burgess. The guy is 1/10000. The problem is when we got rid of Penfold we replaced him with another no-name (in the fitness sense). Burgess has been in charge of the Socceroos & Liverpool, I just think we will struggle to find someone of that skill set to come to Brisbane to work in our sub-standard facilities.

 

[Skoob]

I would agree that questions could/should be asked of our fitness coaches, but around our fitness. Not sure many of our injuries are fitness related.
Rockliff copped a knee to his ribs.
Hanley has a degenerative hip issue (if I have read correctly).
Close bent his knee awkwardly.
Hanley junior did his knee in another country before he joined the club.
Beams junior did his toe in a "freak" swimming pool incident.

Not a doctor, so unsure how much fitness influences acl injuries, but pretty sure they're mostly bad luck.

 

[lukiuslion]

5 are 'suggested' to come off ours this/next week, would bring us close to your suggested 7 average.

I know we ranked number 1 for injuries in 2014 - source?

Others for a current comparison - http://www.afl.com.au/news/injury-news/injury-list

Josh Green out of shape? So what is his 'normal/previous'

here is my source for the 2014 stat, this was obviously mid season, but I can recall us remaining first or second throughout, I can't find the link to where I saw that for the whole year, but I can remember referencing the fact "we were the hardest hit with injury".

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-27/the-injury-ladder

You can persist with trying to pick my post to pieces all you like, but it's not really up for debate that we have had a torrid run with injury over the last few years, our red time woes and the ability to finish out games is also not up for debate.

Yes not all injuries can be attributed to the fitness staff, but pre-hab is a huge part of footy these days, we generally can't keep players on the park.

My opinion on josh Green is subjective, it is my opinion that he looks tubby, he seems to blow up really hard, really quickly, and doesent have much zip.

That's my opinion, we consistently have an 'injury curse', it has defined us for the last 3-4 years. IMO it's time to change the fitness staff and our approach, I'm over it.

I am happy if you disagree, I respect your opinion, I'm not going to get drawn into nit picking and providing you graphs and stats to validate my opinion.

 

[notliondown]

On Saturday night there were 5 players playing who were not on our list last year - up to 27% of the team on the paddock at anyone time were playing their 3rd game or less under Leppa and his game plan.

Arguably our two best leaders, players and really a lot of the heart and soul of the team in Rocky and Hanley have been missing.

Our best defender is missing.

Our key forward prospect is missing, and he's a trainee.

I can't see Leppa being all touchy feely when theres a need to fire up... history will tell you that this guy has a fuse and a temper like the best of them. There wouldn't be a player on our list that wouldn't understand when Leppa was pissed and to think otherwise underestimates him greatly.

I have nothing but respect for the guy. To stick to his guns, stand by his plan with confidence and not let ourselves become defensive and meek takes guts, especially when our team had known KPP deficiencies before the season and finds itself plagued with injury now. If hes wrong hes not going to go down without a fight it seems and I struggle to believe the guys don't respect him for that.

To try and get the youngest team in the comp to adhere to principles, strategies and maintain a level of confidence in the face of bigger bodies, more experience and score board pressure will take patience, trust and belief from both sides. Its going to take time.

Anyone who's ever trained an apprentice or trainee the age of our players will fully understand the lapses, fade outs and just how easily these guys will become timid and scared when the pressure mounts. Leppas hardest task this year will be simply to create resilience and self belief in the team.

And I don't buy the fitness thing for one minute. Its a hell of lot easier to run across the ground 50 points up than it is down. Its easier to lay a tackle knowing support is there and easier to chase knowing a teammate is coming from the other direction to help. When heads drop no one runs. No one puts in 100% Get beaten up enough and you won't look real fit either.

Right now our issues lay mainly between the ears of the players, and finding a way to cobble together a team.

I have a feeling its going to be a veeeerrrryyyy long season.

 

[WA Lion]

On Saturday night there were 5 players playing who were not on our list last year - up to 27% of the team on the paddock at anyone time were playing their 3rd game or less under Leppa and his game plan.

Arguably our two best leaders, players and really a lot of the heart and soul of the team in Rocky and Hanley have been missing.

Our best defender is missing.

Our key forward prospect is missing, and he's a trainee.

I can't see Leppa being all touchy feely when theres a need to fire up... history will tell you that this guy has a fuse and a temper like the best of them. There wouldn't be a player on our list that wouldn't understand when Leppa was pissed and to think otherwise underestimates him greatly.

I have nothing but respect for the guy. To stick to his guns, stand by his plan with confidence and not let ourselves become defensive and meek takes guts, especially when our team had known KPP deficiencies before the season and finds itself plagued with injury now. If hes wrong hes not going to go down without a fight it seems and I struggle to believe the guys don't respect him for that.

To try and get the youngest team in the comp to adhere to principles, strategies and maintain a level of confidence in the face of bigger bodies, more experience and score board pressure will take patience, trust and belief from both sides. Its going to take time.

Anyone who's ever trained an apprentice or trainee the age of our players will fully understand the lapses, fade outs and just how easily these guys will become timid and scared when the pressure mounts. Leppas hardest task this year will be simply to create resilience and self belief in the team.

And I don't but the fitness thing for one minute. Its a hell of lot easier to run across the ground 50 points up than it is down. Its easier to lay a tackle knowing support is there and easier to chase knowing a teammate is coming from the other direction to help. When heads drop no one runs. No one puts in 100% Get beaten up enough and you won't look real fit either.

Right now our issues lay mainly between the ears of the players, and finding a way to cobble together a team.

I have a feeling its going to be a veeeerrrryyyy long season.

This. Nothing more to be said, but THIS.

 

[lukiuslion]

On Saturday night there were 5 players playing who were not on our list last year - up to 27% of the team on the paddock at anyone time were playing their 3rd game or less under Leppa and his game plan.

Arguably our two best leaders, players and really a lot of the heart and soul of the team in Rocky and Hanley have been missing.

Our best defender is missing.

Our key forward prospect is missing, and he's a trainee.

I can't see Leppa being all touchy feely when theres a need to fire up... history will tell you that this guy has a fuse and a temper like the best of them. There wouldn't be a player on our list that wouldn't understand when Leppa was pissed and to think otherwise underestimates him greatly.

I have nothing but respect for the guy. To stick to his guns, stand by his plan with confidence and not let ourselves become defensive and meek takes guts, especially when our team had known KPP deficiencies before the season and finds itself plagued with injury now. If hes wrong hes not going to go down without a fight it seems and I struggle to believe the guys don't respect him for that.

To try and get the youngest team in the comp to adhere to principles, strategies and maintain a level of confidence in the face of bigger bodies, more experience and score board pressure will take patience, trust and belief from both sides. Its going to take time.

Anyone who's ever trained an apprentice or trainee the age of our players will fully understand the lapses, fade outs and just how easily these guys will become timid and scared when the pressure mounts. Leppas hardest task this year will be simply to create resilience and self belief in the team.

And I don't buy the fitness thing for one minute. Its a hell of lot easier to run across the ground 50 points up than it is down. Its easier to lay a tackle knowing support is there and easier to chase knowing a teammate is coming from the other direction to help. When heads drop no one runs. No one puts in 100% Get beaten up enough and you won't look real fit either.

Right now our issues lay mainly between the ears of the players, and finding a way to cobble together a team.

I have a feeling its going to be a veeeerrrryyyy long season.

Great post. Agree with everything, except there's no excuses for not tackling. Lol

 

[Caiphus]

I think Dayne Beams looks leaner after coming here (could be an optical illusion though that the vertical stripes on the Pies guernsey made his torso seem slimmer and his arms bigger) and I've also noticed that we seem to be gambling on leaner runners for the future if they reduce the interchange.

I like the look of a team that carries a bit more muscle and worry about the effect of our leanness on winning the contested ball and the way the huge number of contests sap strength out of leaner players that impacts their running ability. I'm not a sports scientist so I don't have the numbers to run an optimisation equation and work out the best ratio of strength to running endurance is but I feel like we are erring the wrong way at the moment. I wouldn't say its because the fitness team is incompetent though, just that what they are aiming for isn't short term gain or they are achieving what they want to achieve in regards to pre-season bench marks but there actual strategy is wrong.

I also believe that Redden was better when he carried more muscle, but his role is more an outside run with player at the moment than inside mid and I'm not sure whether he is really best suited to that either.

Right now I believe the forwards and defence are under performing but only by about 20%. It's not good, but it's our midfield that has been close to 50% worse than I expect them to be and that is making the 12 guys at either end of the ground seem even poorer. I'm going to hang my hat on it being a cohesion issue primarily that has varyingly made our skills or our effort look worse than what they actually are. Without cohesion the guys can't play on instinct or live in the moment as much as they are used to.

It could very well be a coaching issue where Leppa has overestimated the teams ability to adapt to a more complex system rather than just taking the plan from the end of last season and adapting it little by little. Hopefully the eureka moment comes a lot earlier this year than it did last year (like this weekend would be nice) and we end up being more competitive a lot sooner.

 

[Tendo Jones]

I would agree that questions could/should be asked of our fitness coaches, but around our fitness. Not sure many of our injuries are fitness related.
Rockliff copped a knee to his ribs.
Hanley has a degenerative hip issue (if I have read correctly).
Close bent his knee awkwardly.
Hanley junior did his knee in another country before he joined the club.
Beams junior did his toe in a "freak" swimming pool incident.

Not a doctor, so unsure how much fitness influences acl injuries, but pretty sure they're mostly bad luck.

It's not necessarily the injuries that I'm blaming on our fitness... but the style Leppa is trying to get us to play requires great fitness, and I find our run and our decision making drops off in red time, and fitness is the likely cause

 

[Gibbo_88]

I think there is far too much I don't know to really make comment on what is going on with our game plan. It is really frustrating to watch though.

End of last year it looked like it came together but was that just one piece of our game plan? It can take a long time to get a game plan the way you want it so did Leppa only introduce a part of it last year and the players are struggling with the next part of how he wants us to play? When we go through the centre of the ground we don't seem to have the options that we had last year or enough back up if the mark is dropped.

Why is it that we are getting more individual efforts from players than anything looking close to set plays/team work? Zorko, Rich and Beams have been putting in the effort but none of it is really paying off. I didn't watch the Tigers game but our attacking looks very messy. The only conclusions I can draw from that is that the players don't 100% know what they are supposed to be doing and that's why we see more individual efforts than team.

I don't think it is a fitness issue, you only have to look at inexperience watch thread to see we should be losing each week. If the players are 'bulking' too much in their first few years then they end up with injuries. We don't look like a team struggling to run out a game. I think our strength and fitness levels are more about having young players than a program that's not working.

I don't think the return of Rocky or even Hanley will make anything better. We'd get the nice individual efforts but there's not enough at the moment playing like a team. The pre-season game against the Swans wasn't pretty to watch but you could see everyone was working hard together.

 

[Tendo Jones]

I think there is far too much I don't know to really make comment on what is going on with our game plan. It is really frustrating to watch though.

End of last year it looked like it came together but was that just one piece of our game plan? It can take a long time to get a game plan the way you want it so did Leppa only introduce a part of it last year and the players are struggling with the next part of how he wants us to play? When we go through the centre of the ground we don't seem to have the options that we had last year or enough back up if the mark is dropped.

Why is it that we are getting more individual efforts from players than anything looking close to set plays/team work? Zorko, Rich and Beams have been putting in the effort but none of it is really paying off. I didn't watch the Tigers game but our attacking looks very messy. The only conclusions I can draw from that is that the players don't 100% know what they are supposed to be doing and that's why we see more individual efforts than team.

I don't think it is a fitness issue, you only have to look at inexperience watch thread to see we should be losing each week. If the players are 'bulking' too much in their first few years then they end up with injuries. We don't look like a team struggling to run out a game. I think our strength and fitness levels are more about having young players than a program that's not working.

I don't think the return of Rocky or even Hanley will make anything better. We'd get the nice individual efforts but there's not enough at the moment playing like a team. The pre-season game against the Swans wasn't pretty to watch but you could see everyone was working hard together.

Last year our average age for a player was less than half a year off Port's. We can blame inexperience all we want, but other clubs have had more success with young sides

 

[Skoob]

It's not necessarily the injuries that I'm blaming on our fitness... but the style Leppa is trying to get us to play requires great fitness, and I find our run and our decision making drops off in red time, and fitness is the likely cause

That's fine, I was responding more to earlier posts referencing injuries.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Last year our average age for a player was less than half a year off Port's. We can blame inexperience all we want, but other clubs have had more success with young sides

I'm going to keep blaming inexperience, at least till next season. Expecting anything more is foolish just because one team has exceeded expectations.

 

[Tendo Jones]

I'm going to keep blaming inexperience, at least till next season. Expecting anything more is foolish just because one team has exceeded expectations.

So... the fittest team in the league is the only one in the bottom 6 in terms of age to make the finals, and you see no correlation? I think there is a strong correlation. I think we could be fitter and we aren't, and to me that's not doing everything you could do to be the best

 

[Gibbo_88]

So... the fittest team in the league is the only one in the bottom 6 in terms of age to make the finals, and you see no correlation? I think there is a strong correlation. I think we could be fitter and we aren't, and to me that's not doing everything you could do to be the best

You're right. We could be fitter, but there are a lot of teams with the same inexperience as us that aren't playing great footy and it's not unusual.

Being a fitter team wouldn't solve our forward line issues at all Tendo. Port has had forwards to kick to over the last few years.

 

[James North]

Last year our average age for a player was less than half a year off Port's. We can blame inexperience all we want, but other clubs have had more success with young sides

Wouldn't mind also knowing how many games (rather than average age) and also the spread.

For example, we have really young and really old ... there's more than just average at play here.

Kicking to a good KPF is also a good point, Gibbo_88. It's got to be bad for morale when you are getting the ball just to kick to a guy who's there to make a contest.

 

[Last of the Roys]

I am definitely in the camp that would be seriously questioning the ability of our fitness staff.

Of course we don't have all the details and there are always mitigating factors, but that doesn't mean this concern that a reasonable number of Lions supporters seem to share should be dismissed.

One thing that is really doing my head in is the number of foot stress fractures we are getting over the years. You may say it is due to the hard grounds we play / train on - which might be the case. But if so, you would think we would set up some sort of first class system to monitor and mitigate against such injuries before they become serious problems.

The latest casualties in Mayes and McGrath suggest that has not been put in place (or isn't working).