That's not the elite end mate.Cyril... picked up by the Hawks with pick 12 in the draft.
Day was taken with 12. Can't have it both ways.
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That's not the elite end mate.Cyril... picked up by the Hawks with pick 12 in the draft.
For sure
JeezusThat's not the elite end mate.
Day was taken with 12. Can't have it both ways.
Jeezus
Bloody hell he was a high pick r1Nah we over looked him.
That's not the elite end mate.
Day was taken with 12. Can't have it both ways.
Sorry, the thread title is misleading. Elite end to me is a top 5 pick.Thread refers to the Top 40 picks in the draft, and how Hawthorn clearly stepped away from that for many years.
Sorry, the thread title is misleading. Elite end to me is a top 5 pick.
Point I'm trying to make, is Cyril was not an elite end pick. First round yes, but not the Rough/ Bud/ Lewis type picks we had.
Mind you Scully, Patton, Chad, JOM and Scrimshaw were all elite end, but traded in, so I guess it doesn't count in the context of this thread.
Anyway, bring on the season. Everyone's going a bit crazy waiting.
Yep, just what Daniel is renowned for amongst those who go to watch Richmond games. Nobody is saying he’s better at it than Cyril was at his peak, but that he brings a similar profile to his team. You (generically speaking) can’t celebrate one, and then dismiss another, for bringing that style of game.Cyril’s goals per game and season is not what made him such a great player...his ability to harass, chase and tackle
Different definitions. So be it.Top 12 in the country in his draft year? I’d call that elite, personally.
Of course we know it’s risky... just like bottoming out and hoping some kids save our club. List management ain’t easy and most acknowledge it’s far from a sure thing to succeed, we just aren’t willing call it a failure half way through.Deep down the Hawk fans know it's a dangerous game they're playing , you only have to look a the Chernobyl like meltdown that happened when Cogs stayed put
They know without a couple of top notch freebies coming along soon they are in trouble
Now if they can nab a good free agent or 2 then they are in business I'd say because they can still bulk up the bottom end with their picks intact
Pretty important they stay ahead of the chasing rebuild teams this year so they have the right message to sell
Of course we know it’s risky... just like bottoming out and hoping some kids save our club. List management ain’t easy and most acknowledge it’s far from a sure thing to succeed, we just aren’t willing call it a failure half way through.
Giants had Will Day getting taken around their Pick 4 and were looking at him, but Hawthorn take him at 12 and it’s a reach.Since when is Pick 12 not a high draft selection? Insane.
Day was also a high draft pick, albeit a reach. That came about though due to no quality players wanting to join Hawthorn last year, rather than some carefully purposed plan to re-invest at the top end of the draft.
2013 Pre-Season Ladder
Pos Team Pld W L D PF PA % Pts 1 Brisbane Lions 4 4 0 0 277 186 148.9 16 Grand Final 2 Carlton 4 3 1 0 310 219 141.6 12 3 Geelong 4 3 1 0 301 242 124.4 12 4 St Kilda 4 3 1 0 246 222 110.8 12 5 Richmond 4 3 1 0 245 225 108.9 12 6 Collingwood 4 3 1 0 228 222 102.7 12 7 North Melbourne 4 3 1 0 272 265 102.6 12 8 Essendon 4 2 2 0 271 164 165.2 8 9 Port Adelaide 4 2 2 0 260 222 117.1 8 10 Fremantle 4 2 2 0 264 271 97.4 8 11 Adelaide 4 2 2 0 239 309 77.3 8 12 West Coast 4 1 3 0 249 253 98.4 4 13 Sydney 4 1 3 0 199 232 85.8 4 14 Melbourne 4 1 3 0 195 235 83.0 4 15 Greater Western Sydney 4 1 3 0 209 281 74.4 4 16 Gold Coast 4 1 3 0 187 268 69.8 4 17 Western Bulldogs 4 1 3 0 160 312 51.3 4 18 Hawthorn 4 0 4 0 198 222 89.2 0
Nah we over looked him.
Bloody hell he was a high pick r1
I know you guys are trying to convince yourselves you are on right track but it's no excuse to fabricate history
Since when is Pick 12 not a high draft selection? Insane.
Day was also a high draft pick, albeit a reach. That came about though due to no quality players wanting to join Hawthorn last year, rather than some carefully purposed plan to re-invest at the top end of the draft.
Agreed.....Plus Ellis, Thorp, Dowler all top 10 pick spuds. Aint no guarantees as they say.
I think the likely result is Geelong like. Finals appearances but perhaps not good enough in the end.Anything outside top 10 starts to get speculative for mine. Of course it is all relative, and 12 is obviously less speculative than 72, but there are a LOT of 12s that go nowhere. The two number 12s that followed Cyril in 2008 and 2009 were Lewis Johnston (10 games over 4 years), and Kane Lucas (42 games over 7 years). Sure there are some pretty solid number 12s too, but players like Johnston and Lucas are why Hawthorn has tended to use those later first rounders at the trade table instead of on draft day, as they clearly feel they get better bang for buck taking known quantities (as well as the advantage of being very targeted on which holes you are plugging).
Calling anything outside the top 10 "not that high" is just a matter of opinion not a fabrication.
To be honest I'm worried about the course we are following. I think Geelong has taken a very similar path. They've basically tried to avoid dropping too far down the ladder with targeted trading, and trying to get the most out of their last batch of premiership players to try to grab another shot at a flag before those players retire. They've wavered a bit in recent years hitting the draft a little more, but they are also 5 years ahead of our schedule, and we too chose to go to the draft with our first rounder this year. Hard to know what to make of pre-season games, but Geelong looked frighteningly poor against GC (even allowing for the many reasons a team isn't in top form in pre-season). Hopefully they pull things together once the season starts, because I'd hate to think that was a glimpse of what the future holds for Hawthorn if we continue to follow in Geelong's footsteps in terms of rebuild strategy.
Thread refers to the Top 40 picks in the draft, and how Hawthorn clearly stepped away from that for many years.
I think the likely result is Geelong like. Finals appearances but perhaps not good enough in the end.
Geelongs topping up has been different though - while 5 or so years ago players traded in were in their mid 20s in latter years they’ve been far older
Yep, just what Daniel is renowned for amongst those who go to watch Richmond games. Nobody is saying he’s better at it than Cyril was at his peak, but that he brings a similar profile to his team. You (generically speaking) can’t celebrate one, and then dismiss another, for bringing that style of game.