Can't see them doing much this year. Mainly because of lack of speed, no tough players, no x factor. If Riewoldt goes down then i can't see them kicking much goals either.
Can the saints go the next level in 2009 with this 22?
- Thread starter ShinSplints
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I have no argument with the Doggies having the best of general play in the Prelim, but they lost and that is all most people will remember. They played as well as St Kilda played poorly against Geelong and Hawthorn. Particularly against Geelong the Saints were overawed by an occasion that only presented itself when the Bombers turned into traffic cones.
However, after the Doggies beat St Kilda the day before the Queens' Birthday, this is what happened:
St Kilda
lost to Sydney
defeated Fremantle
defeated North Melbourne
defeated Carlton
defeated Hawthorn
lost to West Coast
defeated Port Adelaide
lost to Collingwood
defeated Fremantle
defeated Adelaide
defeated Essendon
lost to Geelong
defeated Collingwood
lost to Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
defeated Brisbane
defeated Collingwood
defeated Port Adelaide
defeated Melbourne
lost to Geelong
lost to Carlton
defeated Sydney
lost to North Melbourne
lost to Brisbane
defeated Essendon
lost to Adelaide
lost to Hawthorn
defeated Sydney
lost to Geelong
St Kilda 9 wins, 5 losses
Western Bulldogs 7 wins, 7 losses
Against common opponents (Adel, Carl, Coll, Ess, Geel, Haw, NM, PA, Syd)
St Kilda 7 wins, 4 losses
Western Bulldogs 5 wins, 6 losses
Against opponents who finished 3-11 on the ladder (Syd, Coll, Adel, NM, Rich, Bris, Carl)
St Kilda 4 wins, 2 losses
Western Bullogs 4 wins, 4 losses
I reiterate my point that after the half-way mark, there were TWO clearly superior teams, not THREE.
Doggies had a top 3 spot wrapped up almost 8 weeks out from finals and the word was they were tapering (or whatever spin Eade put on it).
If you had said after the half-way mark in your original post there would have been no argument. Although, as a whole season the Dogs were streets ahead of the comp. For the first time in years the Dogs enter any game against the Saints expecting to win and they illustrated that during the year with 2 very comfortable wins over them.
You are wrong and therefore your opinion counts for little.
There are only seven players on this list who could be described as injury prone and this is including Maguire who has only had one major injury with later complications.
Or is it sour grapes after Steven King played more games in a season that he has been able to since 2002.
Falchoon
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the Doggies also enjoyed the best injury run in living memory
The top 7 20+ goalkickers of 2008 missed a grand total of 2 games between them and 17 players played more than 22 games, and barring Scott West probably the 17 best players.
Squizz
Brownlow Medallist
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Geez, thanks for telling me SS. Here I was half-way through penning a note to the club telling them to give it away in '09 cause someone who follows another club had "lost faith".
jackmac7
Club Legend
Milne was the best crumbing forward for 2008 with 60 goals.
How many more seasons will Carlton carry Eddy Betts???????????
Betts has been missing for years now.............
You have no idea mate do you. Milney is the best forward pocket goin around.
My original post talked about the end of the year. I thought it was clear I was not talking about earlier in the year, when the Doggies were in great form. I think the fact that both the Western Bulldogs and St Kilda were knocked out in the same round of the finals, both after week 1 losses and week 2 victories, were reflective of their similar status in September 2008. The Doggies played the Cats better, St Kilda played the 2nd half of the season better.
Even their fans would acknowledge were extremely fortunate to make the top 4 last year . Exposed by Geelong and Hawthorn before half time in those matches in the finals and really were miles off them.
Reckon though they are a dead cert to make 8 as have relatively mature lsit and a a coach who is reluctant to play youth. That may get you into the 8 but will take you nowehere in the finals.
6th -8th
Reckon though they are a dead cert to make 8 as have relatively mature lsit and a a coach who is reluctant to play youth. That may get you into the 8 but will take you nowehere in the finals.
6th -8th
lets just put this question into perspective , st kilda got into the top 4 due to the fact that they got to play a undermaned essendon in rnd 22 and they also had the equal 2nd oldest list in the comp last year behind freo.They were also shown to be a long long long way behind both geelong and hawthorn in the finals
so based on all of this how can one label them a serious contender ?
I think they are a reasonabley good side but not close to premiership material, lets look at a few of the saints better players
kosi is just a average too good player
dalsanto is just a b grade player
balls body is just not up to afl football
hayes is a very good player but lacks speed and dosent have any X factor
riewoldt is a gun
their dfence is reasonable but what they do alot is push lots of numbers back, they cant do this against the better sides because .A they cant Leave the oppositions players alone and zone off and .B the better sides can still shove the ball down their forwards throats even with a flood on
midfield lacks a gun/superstar
forward line struglles against better sides as players like kosi now have to play on players better than them such as scarlett, same gos for the likes of milne and scnider
5th- 8th side
so based on all of this how can one label them a serious contender ?
I think they are a reasonabley good side but not close to premiership material, lets look at a few of the saints better players
kosi is just a average too good player
dalsanto is just a b grade player
balls body is just not up to afl football
hayes is a very good player but lacks speed and dosent have any X factor
riewoldt is a gun
their dfence is reasonable but what they do alot is push lots of numbers back, they cant do this against the better sides because .A they cant Leave the oppositions players alone and zone off and .B the better sides can still shove the ball down their forwards throats even with a flood on
midfield lacks a gun/superstar
forward line struglles against better sides as players like kosi now have to play on players better than them such as scarlett, same gos for the likes of milne and scnider
5th- 8th side
Steve Johnson, Paul Medhurst, Jason Akermanis and Nathan G Brown, not as many goals but all are more versatile and all do more than Milne i.e. tackles, possessions, marks.
Also, St. Kilda only had 5 goalscorers with 20+ goals compared with Collingwood (8), Geelong (8), Western Bulldogs (7) who had more options thus reducing their delivery.
Statistically Milne had a good first half of the season, but, well documented as it was, was not doing the team things.
Did anything actually change after he was dumped to the VFL?
kosifantutti
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Thanks for speaking on my behalf but:
Ahead of the 5th team on percentage and smashed them in round 21.
Beat all teams from 5th to 9th.
Where's the luck?
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Dal Santo B-GRADE?? yeah ok
Lets try to keep this thread real please. It started well.
IMO there is 6 levels at the end of 2008. Not to say this will continue but its pretty clear right now in terms of talent, list, contenders etc.
LEVEL 1
Hawks, Cats
LEVEL 2
Dogs
LEVEL 3
Saints
LEVEL 4
Pies, crows, roos, Lions, Tigers, Port, Blues, Swans
LEVEL 5
Dockers, WCE
LEVEL 6
Bombers, Demons
Can only see the dockers, swans dropping the rest could go forward or stay where they are. what you reckon pretty true ey?
Lets try to keep this thread real please. It started well.
IMO there is 6 levels at the end of 2008. Not to say this will continue but its pretty clear right now in terms of talent, list, contenders etc.
LEVEL 1
Hawks, Cats
LEVEL 2
Dogs
LEVEL 3
Saints
LEVEL 4
Pies, crows, roos, Lions, Tigers, Port, Blues, Swans
LEVEL 5
Dockers, WCE
LEVEL 6
Bombers, Demons
Can only see the dockers, swans dropping the rest could go forward or stay where they are. what you reckon pretty true ey?
How did we get with the Demons? We didn't finish second last.Dal Santo B-GRADE?? yeah ok
Lets try to keep this thread real please. It started well.
IMO there is 6 levels at the end of 2008. Not to say this will continue but its pretty clear right now in terms of talent, list, contenders etc.
LEVEL 1
Hawks, Cats
LEVEL 2
Dogs
LEVEL 3
Saints
LEVEL 4
Pies, crows, roos, Lions, Tigers, Port, Blues, Swans
LEVEL 5
Dockers, WCE
LEVEL 6
Bombers, Demons
Can only see the dockers, swans dropping the rest could go forward or stay where they are. what you reckon pretty true ey?
Falchoon
Brownlow Medallist
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Does Scarlett not take the best forward?
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
St. Kilda will make the finals on the brilliance of their best 7-8 players alone, and the fact that they have a mature and balanced 22.
They won't go to the next level because players 9-22 of their 22 don't stack up against Geelong, Hawks and Dogs.
They won't go to the next level because players 9-22 of their 22 don't stack up against Geelong, Hawks and Dogs.
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
Because Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher are our best players you dummy!
Oh and we don't have any good youngsters
Wasnt sure where to ask this question but I guess this is as good a place as any seeings though the topic is St Kilda.
Has anyone seen the picture on Page 76 of the Herald Sun of the saints running a lap? Just curios to know who the little bloke is that is closest to the camera towards the back? He looks about 4 foot tall and has legs like match sticks. Is this bloke actually on the list?
Has anyone seen the picture on Page 76 of the Herald Sun of the saints running a lap? Just curios to know who the little bloke is that is closest to the camera towards the back? He looks about 4 foot tall and has legs like match sticks. Is this bloke actually on the list?
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Very lucky to make top 4 in 08.
Honestly I have been saying this for about 5 years now and will say it again.
The saints will be in the top 8 but wont challenge for a flag.
It must be a mental thing.
P.S for the record Harvey is a big loss just wait and see.
Honestly I have been saying this for about 5 years now and will say it again.
The saints will be in the top 8 but wont challenge for a flag.
It must be a mental thing.
P.S for the record Harvey is a big loss just wait and see.
Squizz
Brownlow Medallist
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robertg22
Like a librarian
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Saints made top 4 last season because of how even the competition was between positions 3-10 (in the end). Anyone of Adelaide, Kangaroos, Collingwood or Sydney could have snuck into that spot.
Bulldogs were clearly the 3rd best side earlier in the year but dropped back to the pack later on.
They will probably be good enough to make the eight again but don't think they'll be good enough to make the top 4 or 5. To say they are a level above the sides that they competed with for that spot is stupid, if anything they'll fall back a bit because I don't believe that they had addressed any of their obvious deficiencies.
Bulldogs were clearly the 3rd best side earlier in the year but dropped back to the pack later on.
They will probably be good enough to make the eight again but don't think they'll be good enough to make the top 4 or 5. To say they are a level above the sides that they competed with for that spot is stupid, if anything they'll fall back a bit because I don't believe that they had addressed any of their obvious deficiencies.
The Saints have been a good side over the last 4-5 years, but the two thumpings they copped in the Finals last year prooved just how far behind Hawthorn and Geelong they really are...
'04 and '05 was their time, and unfortunatley for them, they blew it...
'04 and '05 was their time, and unfortunatley for them, they blew it...
kahuna71
Club Legend
Pretty good assessment. We need some second tier players who've been around a few years now to bloody step-up...X Clarke (very disappointing output), R Clarke (a confusing player, can go from zero to hero within the space of a single possession), Gram (who went backwards last year), Kosi (trade him if he kicks less than 50 goals this year), Goddard (still haven't found the right position for him I don't reckon) and Montagna (needs to find another level when the ball is not in his hands) frustrate the hell out of me. Dal Santo is mercurial but that's no excuse for too many off weeks. These blokes are crucial but none are setting the world on fire as we expected.
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