No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[TheFrenchCut]

The suspended players (I still maintain Dirty Dozen is an awesome name) are talking to Mick Malthouse and David Buttifant about training them this year.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-coaching-suspended-dons-20160213-gmtbil.html

Disappointed it's Malthouse, but it'd probably be a very good thing for the players.

On the club's side of things it'd probably be smart to encourage them to train together since it might improve the odds of them returning to the club together at the end of their suspensions.

 

[ManWithNoName]

If hurlygurdy's statement came to fruition (which is not necessarily likely) and the player's were cleared mid-season, then common sense would not support that statement.

Those players playing this season wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for the team at that point given lack of continuity for the team, the players' fitness, lack of match practice, game style etc and would naturally present an absolute head **** logisitically with regards to the top up players and what to do with them. However, those players being allowed to exercise their contracted right to play, when there is no suspension having over their head, is common sense. Overwhelmingly.

Players don't decide when they play or not.

 

[yaco55]

It'll turn the entire system into a mess. Different courts in different countries applying different laws differently. It'd be a farce. There'd be wild inconsistencies everywhere. Is CAS perfect? Nope. But it's a hell of a lot better than what this case could see implemented.

You make me chuckle - We've had a bloody mess for over 3 years - No confidentiality for players in the process - Interference by both Governments of the time - Three years to get a final verdict - The system in our case has been a farce - It's broken - You make out everything is hunky dory - How much do you know about the Pelchstein case ?

 

[ManWithNoName]

You make me chuckle - We've had a bloody mess for over 3 years - No confidentiality for players in the process - Interference by both Governments of the time - Three years to get a final verdict - The system in our case has been a farce - It's broken - You make out everything is hunky dory - How much do you know about the Pelchstein case ?

Is CAS perfect? Nope.

Reading skills on point.

And if you could explain what any of what you've said has to do with CAS, that'd be gr8. Most, if not all, of what you've brought up happened long before CAS got involved.

 

[yaco55]

To whom should they be accountable exactly?

Anytime there's a level of accountability there's a chance of influence/corruption. The entire point of CAS is that it's independent.

CAS has never been independent - It was started by the IOC and is funded by Olympic Federations and Governments - CAS was actually restructured in 1994 because it was proven to lack independence.

 

[yaco55]

Reading skills on point.

The WADA Code has let done our 34 players - It should not take 3 years for the process to finish - Anyway we only need to tinker at the edges.

 

[ManWithNoName]

The WADA Code has let done our 34 players - It should not take 3 years for the process to finish - Anyway we only need to tinker at the edges.

And what does that have to do with CAS?

 

[yaco55]

you seem to be seeing only a binary result.

I personally think that article highlighted some fairness issues we've all been struggling with. If she did in fact have the anomaly come about because of a congenital issue, but was banned anyway, how the hell is that fair? It's disgraceful if so. Much like getting banned for two years on cabal strands that don't need to prove there was enough substance, that the substance was purchased and onsite, on the basis that it's been used before, even when it hasn't actually been proven.

I agree it's theoretically preferable to have something like CAS, but if this case forces some fundamental structural change to the way it works that actually gives more fairness to the athletes then fantastic.

Lance - It's also important to note this was a biological passport infraction - It's been ongoing since 2009 - And some biological passport infractions have been thrown out after infractions - Cyclist Roman Kreuziger is an example.

 

[yaco55]

It was in one of the newspapers. I will search. Same article also said WADA funded the CAS hearing in Sydney.

It followed the line that CAS adjudicators must be CAS accredited. WADA is often caught in hearings by CAS. WADA appoints a CAS approved adjudicator. Good for CAS adjudicators to stay in good books with WADA.

Belloff QC from the UK was the supposedly independent on the panel. WADA has previously engaged Belloff for a fee to write its sports law. Belloff QC also has connections with Young.

Belloff was also on the Ethics Commission for the IAAF - So many interlocking strands in the anti-doping industry.

 

[yaco55]

I'm not going to pretend I know enough about her case, if doctor's proved she had this condition and that it could cause this effect then yes that would be a major issue. I dunno if that was the case. But I doubt it.

If it leads to CAS being improved, great. If it leads to CAS being bypassed, that's a potentially very bad thing.

This is typical of your posting - Make sweeping assertions and generalisations without doing necessary research.

 

[ManWithNoName]

This is typical of your posting - Make sweeping assertions and generalisations without doing necessary research.

And you've demonstrated your typical posting too. Putting words in people's mouths and then, when incapable of countering, just attacking the person posting it.

But by all means, carry on.

 

[yaco55]

And what does that have to do with CAS?

CAS/WADA/ASADA are all part of the Anti-Doping Industry.

 

[ManWithNoName]

CAS/WADA/ASADA are all part of the Anti-Doping Industry.

So? Do CAS design the WADA code? Did they have any input into it?

I hope you're not making sweeping generalisations...

 

[yaco55]

And you've demonstrated your typical posting too. Putting words in people's mouths and then, when incapable of countering, just attacking the person posting it.

But by all means, carry on.

I explained part of the Pelchstein case in simple terms seeing you complained about a German Court being involved in this case - Anyway continue with your motherhood statements.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I explained part of the Pelchstein case in simple terms seeing you complained about a German Court being involved in this case - Anyway continue with your motherhood statements.

What on earth are you on about? Where did I "complain"? I said the outcome could be bad. She's perfectly entitled to go there.

Yet again putting words in people's mouths. Stop doing that. Discuss what people actually say. Stop inventing things and arguing those.

 

[efcboy]

So I spoke to a mate who works for a company representing the players tonight. Said the AFL tribunal process went for two weeks of deliberation with both prosecutors and defence able to state their cases fairly. Went to CAS under appeal - case was rushed, less than a week, rules changed, spent the best part of 3 days arguing about the elevated test results of 2 players being not relevant which was accepted and that left 1.5 days or thereabouts for the rest of the case. Felt defence weren't given an opportunity to defend their clients given the process was rushed and CAS took license with prosecutors written submission without challenge from defence. Fundamentally flawed and not something you would ever see in a normal court of law.

Only hope is the 2010 code did not specify de nova hearings (2015 code specified this but this was after charges laid) so chance is appeal successful meaning the CAS decision deemed unlawful and original AFL tribunal decision re-instated. ASADA already bypassed appeal so therefore if this was the case WADA could only appeal on the ground of legal technicality etc as others posted previously.

 

[Towno78]

Players don't decide when they play or not.

Yep, so the question becomes do they play AFL or VFL and potentially after a few of weeks of conditioning first. Sorry guys, sit out 4 another 4 months is not an option.

 

[MarkG]

So? Do CAS design the WADA code? Did they have any input into it?

I hope you're not making sweeping generalisations...

Did Belloff write large parts of the WADA code?

Is Belloff part of CAS?

YES and YES!!!!!!!

In fact you will find he led the adjudication of the Essendon players.

And which legal company was used to fight legal cases when Lance Armstrong threatened to sue? Blackstone Chambers! And who does Belloff represent? Blackstone Chambers.

And which US lawyer did Blackstone Chambers employ to assist with their case while representing the Times newspaper versus Lance Armstrong? You guessed it.... Young QC. The connections go on and on.

Anybody that believes that the 34 players were given a fair hearing is kidding themselves.

The WADA desired result could not have gone any other way.

 

[MarkG]

So I spoke to a mate who works for a company representing the players tonight. Said the AFL tribunal process went for two weeks of deliberation with both prosecutors and defence able to state their cases fairly. Went to CAS under appeal - case was rushed, less than a week, rules changed, spent the best part of 3 days arguing about the elevated test results of 2 players being not relevant which was accepted and that left 1.5 days or thereabouts for the rest of the case. Felt defence weren't given an opportunity to defend their clients given the process was rushed and CAS took license with prosecutors written submission without challenge from defence. Fundamentally flawed and not something you would ever see in a normal court of law.

Only hope is the 2010 code did not specify de nova hearings (2015 code specified this but this was after charges laid) so chance is appeal successful meaning the CAS decision deemed unlawful and original AFL tribunal decision re-instated. ASADA already bypassed appeal so therefore if this was the case WADA could only appeal on the ground of legal technicality etc as others posted previously.

Usually a rushed case would favour the accused because the prosecutor would have less time to present the evidence.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Did Belloff write large parts of the WADA code?

Is Belloff part of CAS?

YES and YES!!!!!!!

In fact you will find he led the adjudication of the Essendon players.

And which legal company was used to fight legal cases when Lance Armstrong threatened to sue? Blackstone Chambers! And who does Belloff represent? Blackstone Chambers.

And which US lawyer did Blackstone Chambers employ to assist with their case while representing the Times newspaper versus Lance Armstrong? You guessed it.... Young QC. The connections go on and on.

Anybody that believes that the 34 players were given a fair hearing is kidding themselves.

The WADA desired result could not have gone any other way.

From where did you get this claim?

 

[MarkG]

From where did you get this claim?

Which claim?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Which claim?

That Belloff wrote large parts of the WADA Code. My googling turned up nothing saying that whatsoever.

 

[MarkG]

That Belloff wrote large parts of the WADA Code. My googling turned up nothing saying that whatsoever.

It was written up in the a guardian in UK. A group of prominent sport experts (legal and others) questioned WADA. Fahey was head of WADA at the time.

Search WADA selects Belloff (or similar).

Maybe add Fahey as well.

Fahey and WADA were pretty p#ssed off at the time, but they eventually employed his services to assist in re-writing the sports law.

A lot of the re-write was from the learnings of the Lance Armstrong case.

 

[ManWithNoName]

It was written up in the a guardian in UK. A group of prominent sport experts (legal and others) questioned WADA. Fahey was head of WADA at the time.

Search WADA selects Belloff (or similar).

Maybe add Fahey as well.

Fahey and WADA were pretty p#ssed off at the time, but they eventually employed his services to assist in re-writing the sports law.

A lot of the re-write was from the learnings of the Lance Armstrong case.

I've turned up nothing. I've looked to try and see who the WADA Codr drafting team was, who the executive committee was. And haven't seen Belloff's name once. So my initial point stands.

 

[eth-dog]

The suspended players (I still maintain Dirty Dozen is an awesome name) are talking to Mick Malthouse and David Buttifant about training them this year.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-coaching-suspended-dons-20160213-gmtbil.html

Would love to see it happen.