No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Mercurial89]

So ASADA could be proceeding with a 'star witness' who is currently on drug charges, their CEO who could be on charges, a secondary witness (Alavi) who is on 'medicare fraud' charges, as well as the other witness (the 'clinic' owner) who is facing fraud charges.. and backed up by a Chinese National that can't be compelled to talk or give evidence anyway...

What is the definition of a credible witness? I can't recall.

I break into a home with my partner. We start stealing stuff and suddenly the owner comes home and my partner brutally assaults and kills that person. We are caught by the cops for the theft and I rat on my partner and testify to what they did.

You can be a criminal and still have evidence you provide used in a prosecution.
Dont dismiss them so easily

 

[Go_Blues!]

You need to remember that 2 years is the maximum sentence - There are many cases when less than the maximum is given as a suspension.

Yes, it is the maximum sentence but it is also the nominal sentence. If your players contest this, and they should, and if they are found guilty, you should expect them to get two years. Now, I do not believe they will get two years but I do think that their options for reducing that are restricted by fighting the charges. Of course they should fight if they believe they did nothing wrong but the stakes are high.

 

[MiguelM]

Yes, it is the maximum sentence but it is also the nominal sentence. If your players contest this, and they should, and if they are found guilty, you should expect them to get two years. Now, I do not believe they will get two years but I do think that their options for reducing that are restricted by fighting the charges. Of course they should fight if they believe they did nothing wrong but the stakes are high.

I tend to agree with you here. Whilst I think the players should fight, ASADA want their pound of flesh and we may pass the point of no return. Especially since anti doping bodies have " God" like powers to issue hefty bans on flimsy evidence or minor breaches (SAAD for example).

 

[Old man fletch]

I dare say it will get tidied up soon, but whoever is posting headlines on the age website doesn't like Caro/had a Freudian slip (couldn't figure out how to post saved pics sorry). If it is the former, pretty tacky.

"Auld brokers a win for common sensesh"

For the record as much as Caro's bias over the last 2 years has frustrated me (previously North fans and dane swan fans), the personal attacks on her have been unnecessary and counter productive. She is doing a job (poorly i believe). Most on here would agree she has written/spoken quite a few inaccuracies/mistruths/AFL leaked mud slinging (aka control the narrative) and there is more than enough ammo relating to her shoddy (read walkley award winning) work to discredit her without discrediting yourselves by devolving into angry monkeys hurling poo

 

[fishardansin]

So ASADA could be proceeding with a 'star witness' who is currently on drug charges, their CEO who could be on charges, a secondary witness (Alavi) who is on 'medicare fraud' charges, as well as the other witness (the 'clinic' owner) who is facing fraud charges.. and backed up by a Chinese National that can't be compelled to talk or give evidence anyway...

What is the definition of a credible witness? I can't recall.

This doesn't look good on the club either. They have all had something to do with the club and I spose one of the reasons that some want Hird gone from the AFL is because they feel he should take some responsibility for introducing these people into the game, whether that's a fair assessment or not. If an organisation removes anyone capable of such a bad error of judgement in the people they get involved with then eventually issues like these will be minimised. Of course it's hard to stick all on Hird seeing it was Thompson who insisted/suggested Robinson and Dank had worked at a club directly involved with the AFL. I also think Hird's involvement with Dank and Robinson is over blown though.

 

[yodellinhank]

View attachment 90101

Nathan Bock...

 

[2one2]

I dare say it will get tidied up soon, but whoever is posting headlines on the age website doesn't like Caro/had a Freudian slip (couldn't figure out how to post saved pics sorry). If it is the former, pretty tacky.

"Auld brokers a win for common sensesh"

For the record as much as Caro's bias over the last 2 years has frustrated me (previously North fans and dane swan fans), the personal attacks on her have been unnecessary and counter productive. She is doing a job (poorly i believe). Most on here would agree she has written/spoken quite a few inaccuracies/mistruths/AFL leaked mud slinging (aka control the narrative) and there is more than enough ammo relating to her shoddy (read walkley award winning) work to discredit her without discrediting yourselves by devolving into angry monkeys hurling poo

Travis Auld brought Steve Dank into the AFL system and if he didn't directly, he was at least in the equivalent position to James Hird at the time. Dank then allegedly gave CJC to Nathan Bock while at GCS. Line that info up with some of the dot points on the AFL charge sheet against EFC/Hird etc and then remind yourself that Auld has now been brought into the AFL commission. Then with all of this in mind remember that this is information that Caroline Wilson would be aware of.

Exhibit mother******* A your honour.

 

[Go_Blues!]

Travis Auld brought Steve Dank into the AFL system and if he didn't directly, he was at least in the equivalent position to James Hird at the time. Dank then allegedly gave CJC to Nathan Bock while at GCS. Line that info up with some of the dot points on the AFL charge sheet against EFC/Hird etc and then remind yourself that Auld has now been brought into the AFL commission. Then with all of this in mind remember that this is information that Caroline Wilson would be aware of.

Exhibit mother******* A your honour.

Does it really matter who brought Dank to the club? I think in a pretty long list of failures, this is close to the bottom. No one should lose their job because of the staff they selected. If that was the case, then all managers would be looking for work. Anyone who blames Hird or Thompson for bringing in Dank is entirely missing the point. If there were failures of governance, then that can be attributed to an individual but not for hiring staff. All of this "James Hird is to blame, no, Thompson is to blame" is some sort of juvenile argument, fueled by the media. The only way to attribute responsibility is to read the job descriptions of the people involved. Who was responsible for overseeing the sports science program at Essendon? I assume the answer would have been the same for all clubs in 2011......"we are not really sure". In this rapidly developing world of make believe, in some aspects, clubs live on the cutting edge and out there you create your own rules. Essendon should have had someone responsible for the supplement program and that person should have had a reporting line through to the CEO and that will describe organisational responsibility but I would assume that no clubs have this organisational sophistication.

I am sure that some of you work at large organisations and are constantly frustrated by the bureaucracy. This Essendon saga is exactly why organisations make you spend half of your day following process rather than being productive.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Does it really matter who brought Dank to the club? I think in a pretty long list of failures, this is close to the bottom. No one should lose their job because of the staff they selected. If that was the case, then all managers would be looking for work. Anyone who blames Hird or Thompson for bringing in Dank is entirely missing the point. If there were failures of governance, then that can be attributed to an individual but not for hiring staff. All of this "James Hird is to blame, no, Thompson is to blame" is some sort of juvenile argument, fueled by the media. The only way to attribute responsibility is to read the job descriptions of the people involved. Who was responsible for overseeing the sports science program at Essendon? I assume the answer would have been the same for all clubs in 2011......"we are not really sure". In this rapidly developing world of make believe, in some aspects, clubs live on the cutting edge and out there you create your own rules. Essendon should have had someone responsible for the supplement program and that person should have had a reporting line through to the CEO and that will describe organisational responsibility but I would assume that no clubs have this organisational sophistication.

I am sure that some of you work at large organisations and are constantly frustrated by the bureaucracy. This Essendon saga is exactly why organisations make you spend half of your day following process rather than being productive.

Ok you're reasonable but ******* seriously. People got fined and suspended primarily because they brought Dank to the club...

 

[letstayunited]

Its not really ASADA related but I just watched the 2000 Grand Final again. So good. Reminds me of why I love this club so much. Dick reynolds, sheeds, Hirdy, Barnesy, Wallis, Barnard etc etc. Let's remember how frickin awesome this club is

 

[Dan Cooper]

Its not really ASADA related but I just watched the 2000 Grand Final again. So good. Reminds me of why I love this club so much. Dick reynolds, sheeds, Hirdy, Barnesy, Wallis, Barnard etc etc. Let's remember how frickin awesome this club is

Through all this I've never forgotten that. But it has been such a bitch, for so long, I can understand how some might have.

 

[expires]

Not sure exactly what this means but if you think I am supporting Essendon, you are totally wrong.

Anyone posting in an Essendon supporters only thread quite obviously supports Essendon. You are totally wrong about who you support.

 

[letstayunited]

Through all this I've never forgotten that. But it has been such a bitch, for so long, I can understand how some might have.

Can barely remember posting this, such was my level of intoxication. My wife came home to me on the verge of tears after watching James Hird win his Norm Smith. When she told me shed gotten me a kebab the flood gates just opened

 

[fishardansin]

I dare say it will get tidied up soon, but whoever is posting headlines on the age website doesn't like Caro/had a Freudian slip (couldn't figure out how to post saved pics sorry). If it is the former, pretty tacky.

"Auld brokers a win for common sensesh"

For the record as much as Caro's bias over the last 2 years has frustrated me (previously North fans and dane swan fans), the personal attacks on her have been unnecessary and counter productive. She is doing a job (poorly i believe). Most on here would agree she has written/spoken quite a few inaccuracies/mistruths/AFL leaked mud slinging (aka control the narrative) and there is more than enough ammo relating to her shoddy (read walkley award winning) work to discredit her without discrediting yourselves by devolving into angry monkeys hurling poo

My problem with Caro is that even if that is well written piece that is on the money I can't see how it is big news. This is football, which is primarily an entertainment business. So her stories to me are as useful as whether Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt can or can't work together. It is gossip rag stuff.

I can understand how some of that is important when it comes to personal battles in major political parties as they are fighting to have positions that control the writing of new laws that govern us all. So when the Libs chose Abbott over Turnbull by one vote they sent us down a path where our position on climate change completely changed. Now if you choose to believe the esteemed scientific bodies then this is something that will influence humanity for centuries, potentially reduce our ability to produce food which would be a disaster with the projected 9,000,000,000 population for 2050.

Whether two rich men can decide on how a man who is assistant coach for a football team go and be a senior coach to a football franchise is really of little to no consequence. At the end of the day if we love football then lets talk about football. Despite the season being completed it would be still possible to write plenty of stories about the kids coming through. Their abilities as a footballer and their stories that get them to here.

As soon as that is done fitness experts could write up about their investigations into how the players are training for preseason. This would be of interest to fans to get a taste of their team preperations coming into the year. It would probably be appreciated by some players who are injured through the preseason, so fans can understand their terrible form in the following year. Also fitness fanatics and amateur footy coaches would be interested in what they could use for themselves/their teams.

I also think there is a place for stories like Flanagan rights that are really just soppy versions of Australian Story where sport happens to be the background.

Seriously Caro, if you want to have a look into back room business deals look into politics, private military, companies that have a large impact on the environment or people's health, look into how funds are managed by community service programs and education providers or look into companies that provide employment for many people.

Football is football and that a publication that is meant to be informative spends so much on this rubbish says a lot about the apathy that our society has.

 

[rumply]

a reminder off twitter, an oldie but a goodie...

ASADA ignored Watson's evidence
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/asada-ignored-watsons-evidence/story-fnca0u4y-1226790856749

• CHIP LE GRAND
• THE AUSTRALIAN
• DECEMBER 28, 2013 12:00AM

ESSENDON captain Jobe Watson told the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority he was injected with a legal form of thymosin by sports scientist Stephen Dank and not a banned peptide of the same name.

Watson's testimony -- which supports Essendon's defence against allegations that its players were administered with a banned substance as part of the AFL club's 2012 season supplement program -- was not included in ASADA's interim report.

Watson, the only Essendon player to publicly admit to receiving injections of the contentious peptide AOD9604, told ASADA investigators that Dank explained to him there was "good" thymosin and "bad" thymosin.

He said that Dank injected him with "good" thymosin, which he had understood to be Thymomodulin.

The "bad" thymosin beta 4 is banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

In further evidence to ASADA, Watson described the bottle from which Dank administered his injection. His description is understood to match a bottle of Thymomodulin stored in Dank's fridge at Essendon and photographed by assistant coach Dean Wallis.



Neither Watson's evidence about the bottle nor the photograph were included in the 400-page interim report, which also does not mention an electronic spreadsheet obtained by Essendon officials from Dank's computer showing a schedule of Thymomodulin injections given to Essendon players.

Thymomodulin is an immunity booster that can be safely given to babies and is legal for athletes to use. Both thymosin beta 4 and Thymomodulin are peptides extracted from the thymus gland of cows.

Essendon doctor Bruce Reid told ASADA he did not approve the use of thymosin at the club.

Watson told ASADA that during the 2012 season he lost confidence in the supplements program. "From my perspective the players and the staff, players especially, lost sort of faith. I lost faith in the program and I didn't -- it didn't seem to be working."

The ASADA report, which was used by the AFL to inform code of conduct charges against Essendon, senior coach James Hird and other club officials, presents a detailed, circumstantial case that Essendon players were given thymosin beta 4. It does not canvass the possibility that the players were given Thymomodulin.

The interim report was made available to the AFL on August 2. Despite ASADA's statutory confidentiality provisions, the anti-doping authority agreed for the report to be widely distributed among AFL commissioners and executives, AFL Players Association executives and Essendon club officials and their lawyers.

Extensive material from the report was published by the AFL in its 34-page "statement of grounds" setting out detailed allegations against Essendon, Hird, football manager Danny Corcoran, assistant coach Mark Thompson and Dr Reid.

The Australian revealed yesterday evidence given by Essendon players about their use of thymosin in the 2012 season.

While some players testified to being administered thymosin, investigators also treated as "admissions" vague recollections by footballers unsure of whether they had been given the drug.

This included evidence such as: "Thymosin is ringing a bell" and "Like, I've definitely heard the word but, you know, I wouldn't be able to tell you if I was injected with it or not".

According to ASADA, 11 Essendon players admitted to being injected with thymosin and seven with AOD9604.

A further 12 admitted to being treated with a topical cream containing AOD9604.

Watson is included in the list of players who admitted to taking AOD9604 but not in the roll call of thymosin "admissions".

ASADA's case that Essendon players were given thymosin beta 4 is based on business dealings and communications between Dank, Toorak-based compounding pharmacist Nima Alavi, and Shane Charter, an importer and supplier of peptides.

 

[Nifft]

a reminder off twitter, an oldie but a goodie...

Can't believe the whole thing is still ongoing, considering the obvious stitch up with ignoring certain testimonies and adding vitamin injections to make things look worse.

 

[Old man fletch]

My problem with Caro is that even if that is well written piece that is on the money I can't see how it is big news. This is football, which is primarily an entertainment business. So her stories to me are as useful as whether Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt can or can't work together. It is gossip rag stuff.

I can understand how some of that is important when it comes to personal battles in major political parties as they are fighting to have positions that control the writing of new laws that govern us all. So when the Libs chose Abbott over Turnbull by one vote they sent us down a path where our position on climate change completely changed. Now if you choose to believe the esteemed scientific bodies then this is something that will influence humanity for centuries, potentially reduce our ability to produce food which would be a disaster with the projected 9,000,000,000 population for 2050.

Whether two rich men can decide on how a man who is assistant coach for a football team go and be a senior coach to a football franchise is really of little to no consequence. At the end of the day if we love football then lets talk about football. Despite the season being completed it would be still possible to write plenty of stories about the kids coming through. Their abilities as a footballer and their stories that get them to here.

As soon as that is done fitness experts could write up about their investigations into how the players are training for preseason. This would be of interest to fans to get a taste of their team preparations coming into the year. It would probably be appreciated by some players who are injured through the preseason, so fans can understand their terrible form in the following year. Also fitness fanatics and amateur footy coaches would be interested in what they could use for themselves/their teams.

I also think there is a place for stories like Flanagan rights that are really just soppy versions of Australian Story where sport happens to be the background.

Seriously Caro, if you want to have a look into back room business deals look into politics, private military, companies that have a large impact on the environment or people's health, look into how funds are managed by community service programs and education providers or look into companies that provide employment for many people.

Football is football and that a publication that is meant to be informative spends so much on this rubbish says a lot about the apathy that our society has.

I'll leave the non-sport politics alone here, but i feel there is a need for insightful stories into AFL politics. Like it or not, AFL isn't a suburban game anymore, and I think all regular contributers/readers of this board have a strong understanding of how politics/backroom deals have damaged this club and the game over the last ~2 years.

A big problem with Caro is she presents herself as independent, but then acts as a mouthpiece for the AFL, thereby not acting as an independent journalist, but another arm of the AFL political machine. It is overlooked as she has done some great work in the past, and is singing to the tune that most fans want to hear. The end result is she writes an article that is all opinion with no new facts (as is her right as an opinion writer) and gets the plaudits, whereas Chip Le Grande who doesn't have the same profile gets canned as a flog, even though his articles are much better constructed, have more facts, and stand up much better to scrutiny.

If Caro wrote balanced articles (some pro ess, some anti ess) based more on facts than vitriole, i might not like her, but i'd respect her work ... more than i can say about her puppeteer work atm.

 

[Beerfish]

Please just use the ignore button if you don't want to see someone's posts. Don't play the person.

Thanks.

 

[boncer34]

Please just use the ignore button if you don't want to see someone's posts. Don't play the person.

Thanks.

Geez you're silly.

Fish can't drink beer.

 

[yaco55]

Some tasty morsels published on BB.

 

[kfc1]

Some tasty morsels published on BB.

Cliffs or link?

 

[Beerfish]

Cliffs or link?

Prefer Cliffs with bullet points.

Just putting it out there.

 

[Mercuri Rising]

Prefer Cliffs with bullet points.

Just putting it out there.

Very abbreviated: a couple of posters that have an idea of the pharma protocols and science believe that it was thymomodulin rather than TB4 that went through Alavi. The director of GL Biochem in China has said that all of their TB4 is pre-compounded, and the type of compounding that Alavi would perform is not required for TB4.

No idea how accurate that all is, it's way over my head. Nothing anywhere near conclusive.

Forgot the bullet-points, make your own: ••••••••••

 

[The Scales]

Some tasty morsels published on BB.

Against my better judgement, I just signed up on BB for the goss. Found none. Care to elaborate?

 

[Its Manbearpig]

No way that Ben's copper mates will cause grief. You have to kill to get charged and sometimes that's not enough. Police protect their own.

Very very true see:
A death in st. Augustine

Back on topic much further progress in the case? Or just the usual?