List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2015

[legendstatus]

Bennell only caught up with Martin to pick up a package. That's all. Oh had dinner as we'll, he had to eat, right?


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[CasuallyDressed]

We could have had Lewis but we screwed up

We probably would have taken Egan at 7 anyway.

 

[Hardas]

We could have had Lewis but we screwed up

Not our finest hour.

 

[BEEG]

Richmond have made the right decision Bennell clearly has some big issues

He has been down partying all week

 

[Robroy22]

We could have had Lewis but we screwed up

And Hawthorn chose Rick Ladson before Sam Mitchell and Dane Swan.....20-20 hindsight

 

[Hardas]

Richmond have made the right decision Bennell clearly has some big issues

He has been down partying all week

Maybe he thinks he's a certainty to get to Freo and is just enjoying the ride.
TBH, I hope the kid pulls himself together and has a great career [preferably not at Richmond]; but the jungle drums are beating pretty loud in Perth, so I'm not convinced Freo will go for him either.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

I think at the stage where our list is at it's time we start bring in some mature experienced players.

We have more than enough youth in our squad and we will be adding Treloar. Hawthorn, Sydney and Fremantle have gone down that path as well and it has worked great for them.

I know we have tried it a bit and it hasn't worked out well for us but we really should consider free agents who can bring something to the club and play a role. I hate when I see a team full of kids playing. Yes it is exciting but they need mature heads around them they can learn off.

 

[Hardas]

I think at the stage where our list is at it's time we start topping up.
We have more than enough youth in our squad and we will be adding Treloar. Hawthorn, Sydney and Fremantle have gone down that path as well and it has worked great for them.
I know we have tried it a bit and it hasn't worked out well for us but we really should consider free agents who can bring something to the club and play a role. I hate when I see a team full of kids playing. Yes it is exciting but they need mature heads around them they can learn off.

I'm not against it, in principle, but I'd prefer trading the likes of Seedsman and Freeman, or the picks that we end up getting, for players in the 23 - 26-ish age-group, unless we have a chance to trade [or trade up] for another good KPF prospect.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Hawthorn brought in Gibson, Burgoyne,Frawley when they were 25.
Ben McEvoy at 24. Hale at 27. Gunston at 21. Mature players with some degree of talent.

Only real "old" player they brought in was Lake.

 

[Vampire013]

We probably would have taken Egan at 7 anyway.

I think they were after Egan anyway.
What is annoying is I heard Lewis say somewhere he was a mad Collingwood supporter.
Another couple of mad Collingwood supporters we could have had are Stevie J & Chapman.

 

[Hardas]

I think they were after Egan anyway.
What is annoying is I heard Lewis say somewhere he was a mad Collingwood supporter.
Another couple of mad Collingwood supporters we could have had are Stevie J & Chapman.

Don't do it to yourself.

 

[Stoods]

I hate looking at what could of been. Because in every draft someone mucks up and picks someone over a gun, its just how it is.

Just have to work with what we have got, and i think what we have got is good anyway!

 

[BEEG]

Lewis situation still annoys me

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Few years from now when Cripps is holding onto a Brownlow, we are gonna want to punch freeman.

 

[swoop42]

I'm super excited by this trade period, and it's because we seem to have learnt our lesson: you need to give quality to get quality.

It's a lesson Hawthorn learnt back in 2009, and they haven't looked back since. They parted with picks 9, 25, 41 and Mark Williams - their first three picks and an established player - and it netted them Josh Gibson and Shaun Burgoyne. That's one of the biggest trade wins in history, and it wasn't done off the back of speculative trading of low-currency picks and players, it was achieved by a willingness to part with a great deal for established quality.

Off the back of that incredibly successful 2009 period, they've since paid a fair price for more established talent, willingly trading out high draft picks to fill list gaps: David Hale (late 1st rounder), Jack Gunston (1st rounder and swaps of later round picks), Brian Lake (swap of first rounders and a second rounder), Ben McEvoy (1st rounder and Savage) and Jono O'Rourke (1st rounder). That's a lot of first rounders thrown at established talent. Not all have been hits, but when you add up the benefit that Gibson, Burgoyne, Gunston, Lake, Hale and McEvoy have provided to the team it fast becomes apparent that it's been worth it.

In Nathan Buckley's early years as coach, Collingwood went for the low-cost speculative options: Peter Yagmoor, Clinton Young, Quinten Lynch, Jordan Russell, Jesse White, Tony Armstrong and Patrick Karnezis all came into the side for nothing, or next-to-nothing. I think Jesse White cost the most of that group at pick 40-something. And for all that speculation, the net gain has been very limited. White is the best get out of that list, and what he offers is sufficient, but unremarkable.

Thankfully, it seems that our list managers have learnt the lessons set out by the best run team in the comp. Starting with Taylor Adams, we realised that it's okay to trade away quality to receive quality in return. Heath Shaw is a huge loss, but his replacement in Adams fills an immense need in ball-winning and will play for six or seven years longer than Heath. He better fits our age profile, better fits our team ethos, and better fits our salary cap concerns. I'll always love Heath Shaw, but given the lack of discipline he was showing towards the end at the Pies, that trade has been a clear win-win.

Following on from that, we allowed Daisy to walk, again relinquishing a quality player but receiving pick 6 in return. Good business, which looks like working out in the form of Scharenberg. We traded out our AA backmen Heritier Lumumba for Travis Varcoe, a trade which raised a few eyebrows at the time but which has ultimately worked out beautifully, with Varcoe putting in a career best year. If he continues on this trajectory, he could become our Burgoyne. Our hand was forced with Beams, but it again goes to prove just how much can be gained by trading quality - Jack Crisp, Levi Greenwood and Jordan De Goey are all looking like excellent additions.

And this year, we've committed to trading very early draft picks to obtain Adam Treloar, a deal which is incredibly exciting. Despite all the posturing on this board about how little we can get away with giving, he'll be worth it even for the two first rounders which seems to be the worst-case-scenario. This trade just screams Hawthorn - attracting the player first, then showing a willingness to get the job done by offering first round draft picks. The difference is that I think Treloar has the ability to be better than any of the Hawthorn draftees over the years, and that's saying something.

We've been a solid drafting and development team for some time now, but to see the trading side of things coming together now gives me great hope for the future. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that we look back upon this period and thank God that we were willing to trade away our quality to net ourselves a swathe of premiership players in the form of Treloar, Varcoe, Crisp, Greenwood, De Goey, Scharenberg and Adams, along with whoever else we might attract in the times ahead.

Exciting times. Go Pies.

I guess the one important difference in the Hawthorn list you have provided to the Collingwood one is that the hawks have successfully targeted players in key structural positions.

McEvoy - Strong old style mature aged ruck
Hale - Capable pinch hitting forward/2nd ruck
Gibson - Undersized but capable of playing key defence or on smalls
Lake - Full back who plays on the gorillas
Frawley - Mobile full back suited to the modern forward
Gunston - Slightly built full forward

 

[swoop42]

Lewis situation still annoys me

Christ I'm still peeved we missed on Pavlich.

 

[mike123]

Following on from that, we allowed Daisy to walk, again relinquishing a quality player but receiving pick 6 in return. Good business, which looks like working out in the form of Scharenberg.

Would would have still got Scharenberg if we didn't lose Thomas, he allowed us to get Freeman.

 

[Vampire013]

Being a recruiter is not as easy as it seems.
Some players play blinders in front of scouts and turn out to be duds.
I remembers in the 1980's Victoria played WA in an interstate game.
A guy named Garry Shaw played the game of his life.
Looked like a future hall of famer.
At the end of the year, we make a deal with his WA club and recruit him, along with some other big names from WA: Annear & Richardson.
None of them played near the potential we saw in them. Ended up as duds and left the club over the journey.
We all look at what could have been and get disappointed.
What annoys me is that a Collingwood Premiership player has helped build Hawthorn's list.

 

[popin]

And Hawthorn chose Rick Ladson before Sam Mitchell and Dane Swan.....20-20 hindsight

What a soft c#ck he is, absolute wan#er of a bloke. No one likes him.

 

[Hardas]

Being a recruiter is not as easy as it seems.
Some players play blinders in front of scouts and turn out to be duds.
I remembers in the 1980's Victoria played WA in an interstate game.
A guy named Garry Shaw played the game of his life.
Looked like a future hall of famer.
At the end of the year, we make a deal with his WA club and recruit him, along with some other big names from WA: Annear & Richardson.
None of them played near the potential we saw in them. Ended up as duds and left the club over the journey.
We all look at what could have been and get disappointed.
What annoys me is that a Collingwood Premiership player has helped build Hawthorn's list.

Yeah, Wrighty was a real favourite for me - good on him for all his success, but it still doesn't feel right.

 

[Babylove]

What a soft c#ck he is, absolute wan#er of a bloke. No one likes him.

Who? Ladson, Mitchell or Swan?

 

[Anzacday]

Yeah, Wrighty was a real favourite for me - good on him for all his success, but it still doesn't feel Wright.

Fixed

 

[popin]

Who? Ladson, Mitchell or Swan?

First one

 

[left at home]

Like Travis Cloke?

in the end he took unders to stay. I believe a lot under

 

[swoop42]

Bringing in Treloar will be a great get but we need more still and we either need to target an Aish with a potential high ceiling or bypass more midfielders and look to address our forward line or key positions.

Question is though are a Howe or Watts really good enough to be difference makers like a Gunston or Frawley?

If not then we need to explore other alternatives that may cost more.

How about Carlisle?

Witts and our 2016 1st rounder?

What would he cost in trade?