Culture and Organisational Climate

[BIG_BONTS]

The culture of our club has long been a sticking point for success. Chris Grant mentioned that the 90's and early 00's our clicky player group put individuals above team success. We should have won a premiership in 97.

Over the last decade some of our favourite sons of scray

Scott West - dumped
Cross - dumped
Lake - Requests Trade to Hawthorn
Harbrow - Requests Trade to GC
Ward - Requests Trade to GWS
Ryan Griffen - Requests Trade to GWS
Cooney - dumped

Whilst I am generally ok with the Boyd trade, consider what we actually gave up.

Griffen, Pick 6, Potentially next years Compo from Griffen (Pick 3-7) and $700 000.

Had we managed this issue better Griff would have most certainly waited till the end of next year to leave - or not left at all. It is ludicrous that a captain leaves under contract. Griffen did not get voted by his peers for being a terrible bloke.

I feel like this off-season has exemplified some long standing issues at the club. Poor management of players, poor management of player issues and poor management of people.

I believe the next coach and related staff has a more important job ahead of them than just coaching football. We need a positive, hard working culture where players have their issues dealt with in a constructive way.

Research has consistently shows that criticism does not get the best out of everyone, if anyone. It does not improve performance. Only the individual can make the decision to change and their are much more effective ways of eliciting it than blatant criticism. This is not beating around the bush. This is just a better way to help people improve tenfold. Yes there are certainly players who don't apply themselves enough or have off-field issues that limit their performance but calling them out on it directly and putting them offside makes the situation more hostile and 1 v 1 rather than TEAM vs Everyone Else. The club needs better training of these issues on a more holistic level. Our coaches and staff need coaching on how to deal with these situations - this is completely normal in top level ASX 200 businesses.

How does everyone feel about the culture of the club looking from the outside in? Is this limiting our football club? Is there any indication of improvement?

 

[dogwatch]

From where I sit its all hearsay but I think we are in the balance. We have a talented bunch of youngsters who show class and determination. However it could all fall away quickly if they lose faith in the club and the coach. That makes the choice of the next coach absolutely crucial. It must be a person with vision, leadership, strong interpersonal skills, toughness (to stare down anyone who steps out of line) and of course excellent tactical nous.

But that's no different to any coach selection. In fact it's what we were told we'd get with Macca, IIRC.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

You're exactly right. That new culture was sold to us with the McCartney signing. I believed that the whole organisation had stepped up a notch and started to become more professional.

I was pretty surprised that he was able to get so many players off-side.

 

[theAthenian]

The culture of our club has long been a sticking point for success. Chris Grant mentioned that the 90's and early 00's our clicky player group put individuals above team success. We should have won a premiership in 97.

Over the last decade some of our favourite sons of scray

Scott West - dumped
Cross - dumped
Lake - Requests Trade to Hawthorn
Harbrow - Requests Trade to GC
Ward - Requests Trade to GWS
Ryan Griffen - Requests Trade to GWS
Cooney - dumped

Whilst I am generally ok with the Boyd trade, consider what we actually gave up.

Griffen, Pick 6, Potentially next years Compo from Griffen (Pick 3-7) and $700 000.

Had we managed this issue better Griff would have most certainly waited till the end of next year to leave - or not left at all. It is ludicrous that a captain leaves under contract. Griffen did not get voted by his peers for being a terrible bloke.

I feel like this off-season has exemplified some long standing issues at the club. Poor management of players, poor management of player issues and poor management of people.

I believe the next coach and related staff has a more important job ahead of them than just coaching football. We need a positive, hard working culture where players have their issues dealt with in a constructive way.

Research has consistently shows that criticism does not get the best out of everyone, if anyone. It does not improve performance. Only the individual can make the decision to change and their are much more effective ways of eliciting it than blatant criticism. This is not beating around the bush. This is just a better way to help people improve tenfold. Yes there are certainly players who don't apply themselves enough or have off-field issues that limit their performance but calling them out on it directly and putting them offside makes the situation more hostile and 1 v 1 rather than TEAM vs Everyone Else. The club needs better training of these issues on a more holistic level. Our coaches and staff need coaching on how to deal with these situations - this is completely normal in top level ASX 200 businesses.

How does everyone feel about the culture of the club looking from the outside in? Is this limiting our football club? Is there any indication of improvement?

Your piece is well written however its fantasy IMO

What is footy culture?
Is it making a grandfinal and being successful?
Is it helping old grannies cross the street ?
Working with the poor and destitute?
Contributing to the community through outreach programs?

What really is football culture?
its an excuse to justify failure
nice way of saying we werent good enough
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CULTURE IN FOOTBAL
Its a * professional sport - not Maria Callas at the Milan Opera House or the latest exhibit at the Tate Modern
Many journo hacks (which unfortunately afl seems to be dominated by atm) will look to justify the importance of club decisions, the importance of the sport and their own self importance by attaching labels and concepts that when actually flushed out and thought about are absolute rubbish. Culture has become synonamous with winning. Thats fckn not "culture" thats *n "successful planning and luck".

Lets look at some examples in the last 100 year of this glorious game

who can forget the wonderful culture of the 2005-6-7 WCE
2 premiership appearences and a cup
drug abuse, overdoses, resisting arrest, high as a kite culture

The wonderful culture of the STkilda footbal club 2009-10-11
3gf appearances
Staging for free kicks, players who were involed in rape, genetalia exposing social media stars, crying on the football field

The wonderful culture of the EssendonFC
most successful club in premierships over the last 100years
Ask asada about their culture!

The sydney swans
the bloods
Now there is culture real culture
COLA culture
the culture of demanding an unlevel playing field because a dim sim cost 2 cents more in redfern as opposed to springvale
orchestrating big transfer deals and cash injections of culture along the way all with big brothers seal of approval!

Adelade - the culture of back door deals and off broadway contracts
the culture of love that meant 2 of its greatest stars hated each others guts and never spoke

Carlton - the ingrained culture of cheating and staging games
the only team that have every had players suspended for "playing dead"
the checkbook culture of the 70s and 80s followed by a complete and utter disrespect for afl salary cap laws in the 2000s

Geelong social club where a certain captain will lock u head in the car window and give you one as the rest of the playing grp cheers on
Pure culture! 1980s -90s style 4 gf appearances!

etc etc etc

Lets all stop insulting each others intelligence PLEASE

 

[Clay]

Your piece is well written however its fantasy IMO

What is footy culture?
Is it making a grandfinal and being successful?
Is it helping old grannies cross the street ?
Working with the poor and destitute?
Contributing to the community through outreach programs?

What really is football culture?
its an excuse to justify failure
nice way of saying we werent good enough
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CULTURE IN FOOTBAL
Its a **** professional sport - not Maria Callas at the Milan Opera House or the latest exhibit at the Tate Modern
Many journo hacks (which unfortunately afl seems to be dominated by atm) will look to justify the importance of club decisions, the importance of the sport and their own self importance by attaching labels and concepts that when actually flushed out and thought about are absolute rubbish. Culture has become synonamous with winning. Thats fckn not "culture" thats ****n "successful planning and luck".

Lets look at some examples in the last 100 year of this glorious game

who can forget the wonderful culture of the 2005-6-7 WCE
2 premiership appearences and a cup
drug abuse, overdoses, resisting arrest, high as a kite culture

The wonderful culture of the STkilda footbal club 2009-10-11
3gf appearances
Staging for free kicks, players who were involed in rape, genetalia exposing social media stars, crying on the football field

The wonderful culture of the EssendonFC
most successful club in premierships over the last 100years
Ask asada about their culture!

The sydney swans
the bloods
Now there is culture real culture
COLA culture
the culture of demanding an unlevel playing field because a dim sim cost 2 cents more in redfern as opposed to springvale
orchestrating big transfer deals and cash injections of culture along the way all with big brothers seal of approval!

Adelade - the culture of back door deals and off broadway contracts
the culture of love that meant 2 of its greatest stars hated each others guts and never spoke

Carlton - the ingrained culture of cheating and staging games
the only team that have every had players suspended for "playing dead"
the checkbook culture of the 70s and 80s followed by a complete and utter disrespect for afl salary cap laws in the 2000s

Geelong social club where a certain captain will lock u head in the car window and give you one as the rest of the playing grp cheers on
Pure culture! 1980s -90s style 4 gf appearances!

etc etc etc

Lets all stop insulting each others intelligence PLEASE

Hi theAthenian,

Just because the culture of the clubs you have mentioned was not all sun shine and lollipops does not mean that:

1. there were not elements of those cultures at that times that involved excellence etc; and
2. there was not a culture in each instance at all.

The premise of this thread is valid.

 

[dogwatch]

Your piece is well written however its fantasy IMO

What is footy culture?
Is it making a grandfinal and being successful?
Is it helping old grannies cross the street ?
Working with the poor and destitute?
Contributing to the community through outreach programs?

What really is football culture?
its an excuse to justify failure
nice way of saying we werent good enough
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CULTURE IN FOOTBAL
Its a **** professional sport - not Maria Callas at the Milan Opera House or the latest exhibit at the Tate Modern
Many journo hacks (which unfortunately afl seems to be dominated by atm) will look to justify the importance of club decisions, the importance of the sport and their own self importance by attaching labels and concepts that when actually flushed out and thought about are absolute rubbish. Culture has become synonamous with winning. Thats fckn not "culture" thats ****n "successful planning and luck".

Lets look at some examples in the last 100 year of this glorious game

who can forget the wonderful culture of the 2005-6-7 WCE
2 premiership appearences and a cup
drug abuse, overdoses, resisting arrest, high as a kite culture

The wonderful culture of the STkilda footbal club 2009-10-11
3gf appearances
Staging for free kicks, players who were involed in rape, genetalia exposing social media stars, crying on the football field

The wonderful culture of the EssendonFC
most successful club in premierships over the last 100years
Ask asada about their culture!

The sydney swans
the bloods
Now there is culture real culture
COLA culture
the culture of demanding an unlevel playing field because a dim sim cost 2 cents more in redfern as opposed to springvale
orchestrating big transfer deals and cash injections of culture along the way all with big brothers seal of approval!

Adelade - the culture of back door deals and off broadway contracts
the culture of love that meant 2 of its greatest stars hated each others guts and never spoke

Carlton - the ingrained culture of cheating and staging games
the only team that have every had players suspended for "playing dead"
the checkbook culture of the 70s and 80s followed by a complete and utter disrespect for afl salary cap laws in the 2000s

Geelong social club where a certain captain will lock u head in the car window and give you one as the rest of the playing grp cheers on
Pure culture! 1980s -90s style 4 gf appearances!

etc etc etc

Lets all stop insulting each others intelligence PLEASE

LOL
Your piece is well written however its fantasy IMO.

Football culture is not about opera or Shakespeare any more than a bacterial specimen is. But they are both still "culture". Language is full of ambiguities and multiple meanings but most of us navigate it pretty well because we try to. If you choose to misconstrue JJ's intent, go for it, but don't expect us to come along for the ride.

Lets have another look at those examples:

• West Coast Eagles suffered the likes of Cousins and got away with it because he was an elite talent. That doesn't make them all crack heads.
• StKilda will rue the flagless era that should have been greatness with the list they had. Maybe they never quite got there because of their s**t culture?
• Last time I checked Essendon hadn't come anywhere near a flag since Dankgate. In fact their s**t CULTure of recent years has brought the roof down around their ears and they have missed out on high draft picks, been thrown out of the 8 and are still reeling. That's what a s**t culture does to you.
• Swans had a list comparable to the Saints but their "bloods" culture, or whatever it was, meant they could actually walk away with a flag or two. I definitely agree with you they are riding on the back of preferential treatment, not because of who they are but what market they reside in. But that's not the culture of the club or the playing group, that's opportunism and you can't blame the club for milking it for all its worth. We would too if we had that opportunity.
• Not sure what the Adelaide reference is to, but they haven't won a flag in 15 years so if you are saying they have a s**t culture then QED.
• Carlton. Bang on! What a great example of a club that has a s**t culture and hasn't won a flag for a couple of decades. That's more than karma, that's hard evidence.
• Your Geelong reference is a bit obscure. You will have to explain that one to me. However my understanding of the Geelong culture was a side that having won its first flag in 44 years all sat down and said "what do we have to sacrifice to keep this playing group together?" Apart from a couple of notable exceptions down the track (e.g. GAjr) they not only stayed together but won two more flags. That screams out "club first" values to me.

The two teams that are conspicuously absent from your list are Hawthorn (3 flags in 7 years) and the Western Bulldogs ( no GF appearance in 53 years). Those who don't learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.

I found your post genuinely amusing but please don't patronise us or suggest we are insulting each other's intelligence.

Football culture - "values" if you don't like the term "culture" (or if you really don't understand it) - is the ethos and spirit that guides a playing group and its football department. If it's based on selfishness, cheating, disrespect or laziness it might do OK at times but in the long term an ethos based on honest ambition, self-sacrifice, loyalty, mateship and hard work will win 9 times out of 10.

Give me THAT culture thanks.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Straight from the paper I'm writing.

Schneider and Barbera (2014) defined climate as employees’ shared perceptions of behaviors and practices that are rewarded, supported and expected at work.

 

[dogwatch]

Straight from the paper I'm writing.

Schneider and Barbera (2014) defined climate as employees’ shared perceptions of behaviors and practices that are rewarded, supported and expected at work.

Is that "climate" or "culture"?
Better not start on climate or we'll be getting a diatribe on rainfall and seasonal temperatures!