Teams Dallas Cowboys - America's Team

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Blacky said:
I understand all of this. As for the pick itself it's worked out ok.

I was just saying lets think about the other implications before we anoint Jerry as GM of the year.
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Oh Dear.





You will be hard pressed to find any Cowboy supporter do this.
 

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Blacky said:
Seems his picking is infallible though.

I don't even think it's an awful pick. He has exceeded expectations. I just don't think it's as good as all of you do.
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Go home blacky....you're drunk.

Something would be deemed "infallible" if consensus was it was a terrible pick, yet we were still defending it. After 12 months, consensus is that the pick was thereabouts, and the player has exceeded some external analysts opinions. This makes it a good pick, because we saw something others didnt.

No-ones even heralding the pick as great or genius. We are just happy to have gotten quality in the first round and are looking for positives going forward after 3 pretty mediocre seasons.
 
Blacky said:
Seems his picking is infallible though.
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Wow, what a strawman and a half.

Your arguments on Frederick completely fell over so instead you falsely try to paint people as blindly supporting Jerry Jones (which is laughable if you read this thread) so you can attack them on that instead.
 
Blacky said:
You can't have it both ways.

We got the players we wanted/JJ is rubbish.

I still maintain it wasn't as good as you all say it is.
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Weren't we talking about Frederick? Now that has extended to all of our draft picks. Frederick proved himself. He wasn't a massive bolt from the blue. Nothing to see here. More blunders than Frederick to have a shot at JJ over.

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Blacky said:
We got the players we wanted/JJ is rubbish.
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Sorry for not researching beforehand.

The main issue with Jerry has never been obtaining talented players and staff. He is willing to spend the money on scouts, on talent and on coaches. The problems have been with managing his rosters, coaching staff ect. He just manages contracts poorly and keeps players for too long or too short. Cowboys drafting has never been a blunder fest.
 
Conventional wisdom suggests that JJ is out of his depth.

I simply stated that although it was a good pick as he has exceeded expectations, realistically there is a good chance he would have been available later. I also question picking a centre when the defense is a write off. The defense has struggled big time and there were so many quality players chosen in that 13 pick span.

The argument has been "you don't know how high we rated him and Escobar" to be honest that doesn't mean a lot to me when JJ is in charge.

Honestly I was willing to let this go, but it keeps getting dragged back up.

Centre is a low value position, and although he graded well on PFF, that was carried by his run grade and he was patchy in pass protection.

Id be happy with him still, just not as happy as I would be with one of the other players I mentioned. Especially if I could have him too.

This escalated because Chism decided to bring his pre draft grade from Walterfootball and when that didn't pan out for him he got precious.

I don't make a habit of sticking the boot in, and I didn't actually start out that way. Every team makes reaches. We got Kayvon Webster in the third, and he has been great but we could have waited on him. Am I happy with the pick? Yeah but it was still a reach.
 
Should a perceived reach that works out be used to pad out the argument against JJ though? It actually seems extremely trivial. It's not just Walterfootball that have rated Frederick at times before the draft, and you have no way of knowing what might have happened if we picked differently. You are arguing that something that never happened would have been the correct way to go. Where do you see this discussion going, because you will never be able to do anything but offer speculation.

Did you post something after the draft suggesting that anybody taken #32 to #46 would be better that Frederick? That's the only way you can get mileage here because it is something that history will dictate.

Oh and it keeps getting dragged back up because it is a Cowboys thread frequented by Cowboys fans. Do you honestly expect that you should get the last word even if we disagree?
 
Guys like Elam, Cyprien, Alonso etc. were available. There is nothing inherently wrong with the pick, it just isn't that good.

Failure to address the defense in the first 2 rounds, and what we can safely call at least a slight reach. Especially when the defense changed formation, is questionable.
 

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Blacky said:
This escalated because Chism decided to bring his pre draft grade from Walterfootball and when that didn't pan out for him he got precious.
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You know the funny thing about this comment is that i have no doubt you think it is true.

I brought up an article and a pre draft mock where Frederick was projected to go in the 1st rd and widely regarded as the best C out there. You then found another article ( your trump card so to speak ) from the same site which had another team taking him in the 3rd as a Guard mind you not a Center which is his preferred possy and the positions are very different even if he can play both.

Every time you say something i am doubting how much you actually know about the NFL (which i was prepared to let go until you called me out) and the comment that a C is not that much of an important position is mind boggling and i will leave it at that.

Yeah yeah yeah and i got precious..... please spare me your juvenile thought process as every opinion you have had has been based on a personal opinion driven by imaginative hindsight when you actually know very little.
 
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013...ft-board-leaked-almost-complete-7-round-board

I don't know if anyone has seen the above link which appears to be a leak of the cowboys draft board last year. I am a cowboys fan and I didn't mind the Frederick pick.

However if that draft board is accurate, I have no idea why we passed on Shariff Floyd at #18 when he is ranked 5 on our board and he played a need position. I am happy Frederick appears to have panned out so far, but passing on very highly rated players is not the way to go long term
 
Dagless said:
First round center who has performed but was a reach. Why Dallas fans so defensive about it?


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Why are non-Dallas fans so sensitive about being challenged over it?

If you used comprehension skills you would see the debate is about whether the Frederick pick is still considered a bad pick irrespective of form purely because he may have still been there at #47, not whether it was a reach or not.

If teams reach and it pays off, then they get credit for their courage or for seeing something others maybe didn't see, not criticism because they could have had their cake and ate it too.

Collingwood reached to get Pendlebury. He was rated above their next pick so the point is probably moot, but if he wasn't could you imagine them still taking heat over taking him too early? They rated him more than others and made a good call.
 
jerry springer said:
no one would be dumb enough to take him with that ridiculous contract

looks even worse now he has done his back twice
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That's very true. Romo's contract aside, we would be foolish to trade him. Romo is a top 10 qb (december excluded) and you don't trade those players away. I am reluctant to even trade Ware too (probably more out loyalty the pragmatism) as I think he deserves another year to adjust to the 4-3 (or whatever defence we run next year)
 
Toil83 said:
That's very true. Romo's contract aside, we would be foolish to trade him. Romo is a top 10 qb (december excluded) and you don't trade those players away. I am reluctant to even trade Ware too (probably more out loyalty the pragmatism) as I think he deserves another year to adjust to the 4-3 (or whatever defence we run next year)
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if we had even had a chance to trade him for some magic beans we should jump at it. we will never win a superbowl with him, Christ we cant even make the play-offs with him.
 
Eleven 38 said:
Romo wasn't the reason we didn't make playoff this year, the 32nd ranked defence was.
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thats the main reason, yes. Overall Tony had a good season. however he still threw away 2 chances against greenbay and denver. If we cant beat a Matt Flynn GB team at home we will never win a play-off game garratt has to take the blame too and he should of been sacked weeks ago.

its time to look to the future. retool the D, and start grooming a new QB. if we can get anything for Romo we should jump at it, our salary cap is shot. we wont though.dallas keep treading water and too many teams are going past us now. looking at the teams we play against we will be lucky to go 6-10 next season
 
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