Discussion on Phil Walsh killing; Warning: Disturbing content

[1970crow]

I think as a society we have evolved past the lynch mob mentality.

From the potted fact pattern so far provided, to me this seems highly unlikely to end in a murder conviction.

The facts potted that I see are man goes to sleep, son brings knife to house early in the morning, son stabs father while he sleeps. These are the facts of the event so far reported. What is unknown is the degree of mental illness involved and whether drugs contributed to the event. It is entirely likely that the accused is assessed as knowing full well what he was doing and the ramifications of his act.

Edit - should say my comments are only discussing 'reporting' so far and the conclusions which may be drawn from that in direct contrast to the post I was quoting.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I need more.direct information before passing comment

The Herald Sun account of the events is truly shocking and unimaginable

 

[jenny61_99]

I can't even bring myself to read it. Just reading the recounts is hard enough.

 

[andrew webster]

The facts potted that I see are man goes to sleep, son brings knife to house early in the morning, son stabs father while he sleeps. These are the facts of the event so far reported. What is unknown is the degree of mental illness involved and whether drugs contributed to the event. It is entirely likely that the accused is assessed as knowing full well what he was doing and the ramifications of his act.

Courts have been inconsistent in terms of whether intoxication is a defence to murder. I speculate here that there's an underlying mental health condition that will be pointed to as a more likely defence - what you consider "highly likely", I take the opposite view...

 

[Slippery Pete]

Was he living in Perth when Phil was at West Coast, or has he always lived in Adelaide?

 

[6BTS]

The information is too ambiguous at present to make any good judgement at this stage. news.com.au may be accurate reporting that Walsh was in bed and that he was stabbed in the back, but I don't trust news.com.au so I'll wait until that report is confirmed before addressing judgement about the situation.

The original report said there was an argument and that means Cy might have been quite aggressive due to the argument. This new report means Cy was calculated and could not have been in his right frame of mind. This might come from may years of selfish behaviour shaping a mindset that made him think he had a right to do such an act (as sick as it is to do that), it might have come from some form of intoxicant or it might have come from a mental disorder. Then there might be a combination of more than one. The screams of "woo hoo" paints a picture of someone not in his right mind more than it does of someone who is happy about what he had just done. We also know he was heavily sedated the morning after which means the was a reason to sedate him. Was it possible he was in a sound frame of mind and overcome with what had happened for the reason to sedate? Yeah, that's possible, but the more likely reason was because he was not in a correct state of mind. It would also explain why he's been moved to a mental health facility rather than remanded in jail.

I have a strong feeling he's going to grasp the realization of what he has done and he'll be distraught. Whether this happens in days, weeks, months or years, I get the feeling it will happen. He'll recall the events of the night and realize that his original intent did not justify the end result and then realize he's destroyed his family. When this happens, I believe even he'll be asking "Why?" like we are asking. I don't think the reason will ever be enough to justify the end the result. I don't think it will come back that he was completely off his face on drugs, I don't think it will come back with him being 100% mentally incapable of understanding his actions and I don't think there will be a history that would make any reasonable person believe this was a possibility. I get the feeling Cy has been living off his own reality for a long time. While the rest of us are working towards a career and setting ourselves and/or our families up, he's globe hopping pondering the meaning of life and indulged in his own mental obsessions. I think it's always been about him, I don't think he believes it to be his dad that is the most important member of that family, I believe he thinks he is superior which is how he made it all about him. Definitely a strong possibility he's a narcissist.

This is pure speculation and a broader look at the possibilities. Nothing I'm saying is concrete and that was the point, to be vague in speculation until firm information comes out.

 

[douglyzia]

Two sides to bipolar, one low one high. Could quite easily be BPD.

I was talking about Borderline Personality Disorder, not Bipolar Disorder.

 

[Cleric]

When Cy gets a clear head and comes to term with what he has done, he will most likely try and take his own life. He is, as others have said, textbook.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Can we stop with the 'he's still living at home at 26' as being an issue? A lot of this and previous generations still lived at home for a long time into their late 20s, myself being one! That fact doesn't reveal anything much.

 

[1970crow]

Courts have been inconsistent in terms of whether intoxication is a defence to murder. I speculate here that there's an underlying mental health condition that will be pointed to as a more likely defence - what you consider "highly likely", I take the opposite view...

I didn't say 'highly likely', I said entirely likely. By which I mean it's a valid potential outcome. There's a lot to play out with the assessment of the accused. Very little of which has been potted together yet. But based on the facts as reported, a non-murder charge is reliant upon a certain outcome from his psychiatric evaluation. That is in contradiction to your statement, unless you have some info that is yet to be reported.

 

[Bosley]

Have just read all the comments in this thread. Read the news article last night.

My thoughts are simply this - Meredith would be the only one who knows what actually happened whose word we could believe. Even this would be tempered by would she by trying to still protect her son, protect her husband's memory or her family as a whole by changing or not revealing some details.

I am not sure the answers to this. It is very possible that Cy would not even remember what happened if he was in a different state of mind due to either mental illness, intoxication or a combination of both.

Also with such traumatic events the mind can simply block things out or play tricks on people as the real memory is too painful.

We may never know the full truth. What we do know for sure is painful enough for everybody.

When Cy does have to face court will his mother and sister be there to support him? What a horrible decision for them to have to face.

 

[Bosley]

Can we stop with the 'he's still living at home at 26' as being an issue? A lot of this and previous generations still lived at home for a long time into their late 20s, myself being one! That fact doesn't reveal anything much.

You are right about this. My stepbrother lived at home until I think he was 30. He had a good job and was saving money. It was a very sensible thing to do. He now lives in a huge house, is married with 3 kids.

He has his life a lot more together than me, I left home at 18 (mostly because I was always coming home drunk and my mum was sick of it). I am getting there tho. Looking back now I wish I had stayed at home until at least my early 20's.

 

[1970crow]

Can we stop with the 'he's still living at home at 26' as being an issue? A lot of this and previous generations still lived at home for a long time into their late 20s, myself being one! That fact doesn't reveal anything much.

My reference to that was about the fact that he clearly still relied on the trust and support of his father, while apparently harbouring some pretty horrible feelings towards him. I was living with my Nanna at 23 and loving it. If I didn't meet my future missus, I'd have stayed there forever.

 

[ManInTheArena]

A family member of mine was murdered some years ago and someone from the Advertiser rang my grandmother up to ask for some info. When she declined to comment they said if you don't tell us anything we will have to make something up. So that's what they did.

Honestly, this is disgusting.

 

[andrew webster]

I didn't say 'highly likely', I said entirely likely. By which I mean it's a valid potential outcome. There's a lot to play out with the assessment of the accused. Very little of which has been potted together yet. But based on the facts as reported, a non-murder charge is reliant upon a certain outcome from his psychiatric evaluation. That is in contradiction to your statement, unless you have some info that is yet to be reported.

All I've speculated (deliberate use of the word) is that this feels like a prime candidate for an outcome that isn't a murder conviction.

 

[Bosley]

All I've speculated (deliberate use of the word) is that this feels like a prime candidate for an outcome that isn't a murder conviction.

Was thinking about the Oscar Pistorius case where he was convicted of culpable homicide when to almost everyone on the planet he was clearly guilty of murder.

Sometimes (most of the time) it depends on how good a lawyer a person can afford ..... which is just so wrong.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Have just read all the comments in this thread. Read the news article last night.

My thoughts are simply this - Meredith would be the only one who knows what actually happened whose word we could believe. Even this would be tempered by would she by trying to still protect her son, protect her husband's memory or her family as a whole by changing or not revealing some details.

I am not sure the answers to this. It is very possible that Cy would not even remember what happened if he was in a different state of mind due to either mental illness, intoxication or a combination of both.

Also with such traumatic events the mind can simply block things out or play tricks on people as the real memory is too painful.

We may never know the full truth. What we do know for sure is painful enough for everybody.

When Cy does have to face court will his mother and sister be there to support him? What a horrible decision for them to have to face.

Well in her FB post Quinn made reference to her mother and father but left out her brother. I'd say he's on his own. The mother may forgive him in the years to come as mothers tend to always see the good in their children but I think Quinn will write off her brother and I reckon she'd be absolutely correct in ensuring she never spoke to that waste of space ever again.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Was thinking about the Oscar Pistorius case where he was convicted of culpable homicide when to almost everyone on the planet he was clearly guilty of murder.

Sometimes (most of the time) it depends on how good a lawyer a person can afford ..... which is just so wrong.

In this state the jury box will be full of Crows and Power fans. He'll be lucky if he doesn't get the death penalty!

 

[The Karma Bus]

A family member of mine was murdered some years ago and someone from the Advertiser rang my grandmother up to ask for some info. When she declined to comment they said if you don't tell us anything we will have to make something up. So that's what they did.

Terrible. Similar happened with someone I know who was related to the deceased in a well known murder case in Adelaide.
They just twisted and turned things for their angle when they received no comments.

Added further pain, grubs.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

My reference to that was about the fact that he clearly still relied on the trust and support of his father, while apparently harbouring some pretty horrible feelings towards him. I was living with my Nanna at 23 and loving it. If I didn't meet my future missus, I'd have stayed there forever.

I'm half liking this post...wanting to live with your grandma however.....lol

 

[1970crow]

All I've speculated (deliberate use of the word) is that this feels like a prime candidate for an outcome that isn't a murder conviction.

Agree it's a possibility. But leaving a dwelling with a knife in hand that ends up being the instrument used in taking someone's life is a significant hurdle to overcome in terms of intent and right of mind to successfully carry out the act. My very limited understanding is that the mens rea need only exist leading up to and at the time of the event. i think that is what is assessed prior to determining the charge. Again, there's a lot to play out with his assessment and the evidence from those he was with prior to committing this horrific act.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Was thinking about the Oscar Pistorius case where he was convicted of culpable homicide when to almost everyone on the planet he was clearly guilty of murder.

Sometimes (most of the time) it depends on how good a lawyer a person can afford ..... which is just so wrong.

A bit different. Pistorius was a cripple hero. The shoes on the other foot now. This Cy w***er has killed the hero.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Drugs - Crystal Meth

Believe me or not - 100% an issue and he was a very known druggy.

 

[1970crow]

Was thinking about the Oscar Pistorius case where he was convicted of culpable homicide when to almost everyone on the planet he was clearly guilty of murder.

Sometimes (most of the time) it depends on how good a lawyer a person can afford ..... which is just so wrong.

The doubt there was his story that he wasn't aware of who was behind that door. That provided the element of doubt for the judge because it brought in the possibility of self defense, although there was clearly excessive force. That kind of doubt does not exist in this case.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Drugs - Crystal Meth

Believe me or not - 100% an issue and he was a very known druggy.

Heard from multiple people the same.