D2 Division 2 2022

[Over The Post]

DIVISION 2 FINALS 2022 2nd SEMIFINAL	PRELIMINARY FINAL WHITEFRIARS 2pm SAT 3/9	GRAND FINAL TREVOR BARKER OVAL 2:30pm SUN 11/9
Ivanhoe
West Brunswick	West Brunswick	Ivanhoe
1st SEMIFINAL	vs	vs
Brunswick	Old Paradians	West Brunswick
Old Paradians

DIVISION 2 RESERVES 2022 2nd SEMIFINAL	PRELIMINARY FINAL WHITEFRIARS 11:40am SAT 3/9	GRAND FINAL TREVOR BARKER OVAL 11:45am SUN 11/9
West Brunswick
Brunswick	West Brunswick	Brunswick
1st SEMIFINAL	vs	vs
Old Paradians	Old Paradians	West Brunswick
Ivanhoe

 

[samochews]

Geez some game the other day
Absolutely shattered as my son was playing for west (no3).
Well done to Ivanhoe been hearing a few new recruits next season such as chamosews + others
Signing out, will see you in the div 1 board, samochews
Chump - will buy you a beer next time i see you if you’re still alive !!

 

[Seemyhat]

Merger approved by both Cobras and Yarra in their respective meetings.

Is Ivanhoe still looking to exit VAFA?

 

[Champ or Chump]

Merger approved by both Cobras and Yarra in their respective meetings.

Is Ivanhoe still looking to exit VAFA?

Ivanhoe will play in VAFA in season 2023 .... take it to the bank.

But the VAFA MUST do more to support district clubs or they will be forced to leave to survive - IMO

Chump

 

[God Yeah]

Ivanhoe will play in VAFA in season 2023 .... take it to the bank.

But the VAFA MUST do more to support district clubs or they will be forced to leave to survive - IMO

Chump

COC when you say support, what directly are you referring too?

Like a majority of district clubs they are hamstrung by their location. Ivanhoe have a great junior club but the senior football clubs they align too are heavily dictated by the schools they attend.

 

[Champ or Chump]

COC when you say support, what directly are you referring too?

Like a majority of district clubs they are hamstrung by their location. Ivanhoe have a great junior club but the senior football clubs they align too are heavily dictated by the schools they attend.

Agree with you re our particular situation and the IJFC players and their school ties. That said, this has ALWAYS been the case at Ivanhoe AFC and when circumstances were different we saw (and still do have) many players from those schools play with our club.

I believe there are a number of things that the VAFA (and potentially AFL VIC) should explore to determine what they can do to support District/non school affiliated clubs. This will require some innovation and some thinking that not all may be happy with, but should that stop us from exploring it ... NO.

Some radical thinking ....

• Limiting the number of teams clubs can have - do some clubs really NEED 4 x under 19's 2 x Under 23's 2x Thirds?
• Working through points systems for what an 'original' junior affiliation is v senior clubs that then sign MOU's to downgrade their player points.
• Working through the potential inequity in points allocated for University attending players v District clubs/non school affiliated
• AFL Vic to investigate the challenges around school football programs now being Saturdays or the direction schools give players from not playing U19's if any clash (same weekend)
• Could player points cap for district/ non school affiliated clubs be higher to encourage more players to VAFA
• Could lower grade (especially U19's) be grouped to geographical locations (again) to promote more opportunities.
• Could district/non school affiliated clubs be allowed a small salary cap to compete with school sides that offer scholarships to players?

All of these have pros and cons - I absolutely understand that. But what is happening now is NOT working and is NOT sustainable due to a change in the VAFA set up over the past 20 years.

At the end of the day I doubt much of the above will happen and clubs like ours will need to explore other options and develop a much better program to survive or be happy to float around the bottom of C-grade - D2 - but that's just IMHO.

Chump.

 

[Brainy Tim]

Agree with you re our particular situation and the IJFC players and their school ties. That said, this has ALWAYS been the case at Ivanhoe AFC and when circumstances were different we saw (and still do have) many players from those schools play with our club.

I believe there are a number of things that the VAFA (and potentially AFL VIC) should explore to determine what they can do to support District/non school affiliated clubs. This will require some innovation and some thinking that not all may be happy with, but should that stop us from exploring it ... NO.

Some radical thinking ....

• Limiting the number of teams clubs can have - do some clubs really NEED 4 x under 19's 2 x Under 23's 2x Thirds?
• Working through points systems for what an 'original' junior affiliation is v senior clubs that then sign MOU's to downgrade their player points.
• Working through the potential inequity in points allocated for University attending players v District clubs/non school affiliated
• AFL Vic to investigate the challenges around school football programs now being Saturdays or the direction schools give players from not playing U19's if any clash (same weekend)
• Could player points cap for district/ non school affiliated clubs be higher to encourage more players to VAFA
• Could lower grade (especially U19's) be grouped to geographical locations (again) to promote more opportunities.
• Could district/non school affiliated clubs be allowed a small salary cap to compete with school sides that offer scholarships to players?

All of these have pros and cons - I absolutely understand that. But what is happening now is NOT working and is NOT sustainable due to a change in the VAFA set up over the past 20 years.

At the end of the day I doubt much of the above will happen and clubs like ours will need to explore other options and develop a much better program to survive or be happy to float around the bottom of C-grade - D2 - but that's just IMHO.

Chump.

Im now thinking you must be retired and or past president of the club.
You clearly have a lot more knowledge and insight to be on the current committee (as I first thought)
And a past president (Rob) would not be discussing potential moves to NFL.

Also cannot see him living "rough" but could see him trying to get a game in the ressies!

 

[CrustyDemon]

Agree with you re our particular situation and the IJFC players and their school ties. That said, this has ALWAYS been the case at Ivanhoe AFC and when circumstances were different we saw (and still do have) many players from those schools play with our club.

I believe there are a number of things that the VAFA (and potentially AFL VIC) should explore to determine what they can do to support District/non school affiliated clubs. This will require some innovation and some thinking that not all may be happy with, but should that stop us from exploring it ... NO.

Some radical thinking ....

• Limiting the number of teams clubs can have - do some clubs really NEED 4 x under 19's 2 x Under 23's 2x Thirds?
• Working through points systems for what an 'original' junior affiliation is v senior clubs that then sign MOU's to downgrade their player points.
• Working through the potential inequity in points allocated for University attending players v District clubs/non school affiliated
• AFL Vic to investigate the challenges around school football programs now being Saturdays or the direction schools give players from not playing U19's if any clash (same weekend)
• Could player points cap for district/ non school affiliated clubs be higher to encourage more players to VAFA
• Could lower grade (especially U19's) be grouped to geographical locations (again) to promote more opportunities.
• Could district/non school affiliated clubs be allowed a small salary cap to compete with school sides that offer scholarships to players?

All of these have pros and cons - I absolutely understand that. But what is happening now is NOT working and is NOT sustainable due to a change in the VAFA set up over the past 20 years.

At the end of the day I doubt much of the above will happen and clubs like ours will need to explore other options and develop a much better program to survive or be happy to float around the bottom of C-grade - D2 - but that's just IMHO.

Chump.

what's holding you back from moving to NFNL then COC? is there pushback from board/players/past players?

 

[Champ or Chump]

what's holding you back from moving to NFNL then COC? is there pushback from board/players/past players?

I could list a host of reasons why the NFNL may not be right for us also I think there are Pros and Cons for either competition for our club - IMO

In all seriousness though, the committee have been very open with people around the club/VAFA that they are doing a review (with an external resource) to look at ALL elements of potential improvement for the club and what competition they play in will be one of those things investigated. Any recommendations from there will be something the committee works through I would suggest and then put to us as players/members to vote on.

Chump

 

[FWIW]

I could list a host of reasons why the NFNL may not be right for us also I think there are Pros and Cons for either competition for our club - IMO

In all seriousness though, the committee have been very open with people around the club/VAFA that they are doing a review (with an external resource) to look at ALL elements of potential improvement for the club and what competition they play in will be one of those things investigated. Any recommendations from there will be something the committee works through I would suggest and then put to us as players/members to vote on.

Chump

FWIW both Banyule and Werribee Districts are good reasons for community clubs to reconsider playing in the APS old boys

 

[oldtimer]

FWIW both Banyule and Werribee Districts are good reasons for community clubs to reconsider playing in the APS old boys

If we didn’t move then we would have folded, simple as that. Now we have 3 strong teams, 2 premierships in 2022 and moving to Div 1 after being only 8 years in comp. Sides in the north of the vafa will pretty much be non existent in the next 5 years. Look at the clubs who have moved from vafa and all are in a lot better position than where they were previously. Ivanhoe according to COC are discussing and OP will def have to look at it as well.

Banyule has never been stronger with 14 players under 23 playing in the Premiership and 14 from junior club playing. This is all because we moved leagues

 

[Champ or Chump]

If we didn’t move then we would have folded, simple as that. Now we have 3 strong teams, 2 premierships in 2022 and moving to Div 1 after being only 8 years in comp. Sides in the north of the vafa will pretty much be non existent in the next 5 years. Look at the clubs who have moved from vafa and all are in a lot better position than where they were previously. Ivanhoe according to COC are discussing and OP will def have to look at it as well.

Banyule has never been stronger with 14 players under 23 playing in the Premiership and 14 from junior club playing. This is all because we moved leagues

Congratulations on this years achievement OT .... great reward for all the efforts of so many and the way the club is run/coached/organised. I agree with your commentary and Thommo and Eltham Turtles also look to be making a good go of things since their respective change.

That said, the one small difference that Banyule (has impacting them a little less than Ivanhoe) is the school attendance of its juniors. We also see this with Parkside in that the kids that play juniors at both Banyule and Parkside have a lower % of kids going to the local private schools. Last year only 5 kids from our Colts that went on to play under 19's somewhere did not attend a private school. It's just another complexity we deal with when trying to get a under 19's up and running - school affiliation and/or school footy throughout the year is slightly higher as a % of players than at Banyule and Parkside.

All things for our committee to consider as part of the review and strategic planning I would suggest.

Chump

 

[oldtimer]

Congratulations on this years achievement OT .... great reward for all the efforts of so many and the way the club is run/coached/organised. I agree with your commentary and Thommo and Eltham Turtles also look to be making a good go of things since their respective change.

That said, the one small difference that Banyule (has impacting them a little less than Ivanhoe) is the school attendance of its juniors. We also see this with Parkside in that the kids that play juniors at both Banyule and Parkside have a lower % of kids going to the local private schools. Last year only 5 kids from our Colts that went on to play under 19's somewhere did not attend a private school. It's just another complexity we deal with when trying to get a under 19's up and running - school affiliation and/or school footy throughout the year is slightly higher as a % of players than at Banyule and Parkside.

All things for our committee to consider as part of the review and strategic planning I would suggest.

Chump

Champ, I was talking about how moving was the best thing for us. Another big difference is that our junior and senior are aligned.

Unfortunately the junior club at your end have people involved who have vested interests in other clubs so makes retaining players at 19s level extremely difficult.

 

[God Yeah]

If we didn’t move then we would have folded, simple as that. Now we have 3 strong teams, 2 premierships in 2022 and moving to Div 1 after being only 8 years in comp. Sides in the north of the vafa will pretty much be non existent in the next 5 years. Look at the clubs who have moved from vafa and all are in a lot better position than where they were previously. Ivanhoe according to COC are discussing and OP will def have to look at it as well.

Banyule has never been stronger with 14 players under 23 playing in the Premiership and 14 from junior club playing. This is all because we moved leagues

OT - So by moving leagues you now have the flow on effect of juniors coming through? Why was this not the case prior? Was a geographical move a bigger factor in player retention?

It just seems odd that by moving from the VAFA to the NFL the club has somehow been resurrected. I'm keen to hear more on how the turnaround has taken place.

 

[Mounzer11]

OT - So by moving leagues you now have the flow on effect of juniors coming through? Why was this not the case prior? Was a geographical move a bigger factor in player retention?

It just seems odd that by moving from the VAFA to the NFL the club has somehow been resurrected. I'm keen to hear more on how the turnaround has taken place.

I believe the Werribee/Banyule moves all made sense as they moved in a time when player payments were out of control and were surrounded by big strong paying clubs.
I would imagine the ability to pay players would be the major reason Banyule have been able to retain their juniors. I don't buy into the travel excuse.
Does Ivanhoe have this same pressures?? Or, is their challenge the kids being linked to the private schools in the area? This has been an ongoing issue for Beauy but they seem to be attracting the kids back from their schools...

 

[oldtimer]

OT - So by moving leagues you now have the flow on effect of juniors coming through? Why was this not the case prior? Was a geographical move a bigger factor in player retention?

It just seems odd that by moving from the VAFA to the NFL the club has somehow been resurrected. I'm keen to hear more on how the turnaround has taken place.

Travel was definitely 1 reason, however, retention of juniors was the key reason. We struggled to field 19s due to the recruitment from other NFL clubs with the enticement of close proximity and money available. Since we joined the NFL, we have fielded a 19s each year. In the 19s Premiership side this year, 22 of the 24 were directly from the junior club.

Being a northern suburbs team in the VAFA, travel can be huge. Next year we have 7 away games within 5km, this means greater support and greater profile in the community

 

[God Yeah]

Travel was definitely 1 reason, however, retention of juniors was the key reason. We struggled to field 19s due to the recruitment from other NFL clubs with the enticement of close proximity and money available. Since we joined the NFL, we have fielded a 19s each year. In the 19s Premiership side this year, 22 of the 24 were directly from the junior club.

Being a northern suburbs team in the VAFA, travel can be huge. Next year we have 7 away games within 5km, this means greater support and greater profile in the community

Thanks for that, certainly informative as to the pressures that northern suburbs team faces.

I take it that only those that play in the seniors on a week to week basis are on the payroll? Or is that an assumption I'm making.

 

[Champ or Chump]

Travel was definitely 1 reason, however, retention of juniors was the key reason. We struggled to field 19s due to the recruitment from other NFL clubs with the enticement of close proximity and money available. Since we joined the NFL, we have fielded a 19s each year. In the 19s Premiership side this year, 22 of the 24 were directly from the junior club.

Being a northern suburbs team in the VAFA, travel can be huge. Next year we have 7 away games within 5km, this means greater support and greater profile in the community

100% agree OT on this as the No.1 reason we are hearing from our Colts - travel.

In fact IF we were in NFNL or geographically segmented many Colts/Volunteers/Coaches have suggested it would be more appealing to them to stay together with their junior team mates.

Not the only factor, but a major one for our club.

Chump

 

[Over The Post]

Fun fact: one of the reasons Wyndham Suns (ex Old Westbourne) pulled out of the VAFA U19s was some comedian at Old Yarra getting a home game scheduled at 9am, with players being dragged out of bed and bundled into parents cars pre-sparrowfart for the expedition across Melbourne from Werribee. The players weren't impressed but it was the parents who nearly mutinied.

 

[SeaSide]

Fun fact: one of the reasons Wyndham Suns (ex Old Westbourne) pulled out of the VAFA U19s was some comedian at Old Yarra getting a home game scheduled at 9am, with players being dragged out of bed and bundled into parents cars pre-sparrowfart for the expedition across Melbourne from Werribee. The players weren't impressed but it was the parents who nearly mutinied.

Regarding too much travel.

Willi CYs were admitted to the VAFA in 1973 (U19), and 1974 (Seniors F Grade).

Within the following five years, Newport, Newport East (formally (YCW), West Newport, Williamstown United and Central Altona vanished, the few remaining clubs being subsumed into the WRFL.

As a proud local club, back in the early 1970s nearby clubs wouldn’t clear players who wanted to join the Willi CYs. The VAFA was attractive as we shared similar values. Travel wasn’t an issue. We were the only club in the former Western Suburbs Football League (WSFL) that didn’t entice recruits with remuneration.

In the past, playing in the CYMSFA, Werribee District League and WSFL, travel was never an issue.

Werribee teams, W/Centrals, W/South, W/Districts, Metro Farm and INF (Irish National Foresters) was 40 minutes driving.

Lara was then 1 hour driving (Geelong Road had one lane south and one lane north).

The CYMSFA saw us travelling to Mentone, Geelong, Coburg, all over Melbourne, and 40+ years ago, generally was a 50+ minute trip.

Recruits to the Willi CYs once admitted to the VAFA was exciting as there were players who lived locally wanted to play VAFA football, several of whom were playing with their OB teams, travelling distances twice weekly for training.

The average time travelled in 1974/5 (VAFA) et al, to away games was 45 minutes. Travel was never a problem.

Today’s U19 Premier Men’s travel, remembering half of games are at home has averaged 30 minutes.

I can understand some clubs leaving the VAFA, albeit for diverse reasons: -

Banyule: local inclusion
Eltham: geography and culture
Rupertswood: geography
Thomastown: psychographics
Werribee Districts and Point Cook: geography, psychographics and demographics

I’m happy to be corrected on my assessment of the reasons / culture of the abovementioned clubs.

Reasons for leaving the VAFA are certainly diverse as is the obverse.

However, a Werribee VAFA team required to travel to the Mornington Peninsula or similar for a sparrowfart start is BS. Surely such an event could be played at Elsternwick Park as with the return game? BRAINS TRUST?

However, I cannot believe that, in the main, that travel is a reason, but an excuse.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Team of the Year. Thoughts?

 

[Brainy Tim]

Team of the Year. Thoughts?

I cant believe Doyle at Ivanhoe wasn't included.