TradeDraft
Post-Human
Very Good Post.
Do like the Idea of a Really Good Heart to Heart Coversation and Maybe if done well you can work things out
Does my son really want to work?
- Thread starter Copeland
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Very Good Post.
Do like the Idea of a Really Good Heart to Heart Coversation and Maybe if done well you can work things out
And make sure you apologise for breaking his computer straight up. I can see why you did it, but I doubt he will. Explain why you did it, but just make sure you apologise.
Quicky
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Thats kind of the point, make him pay what the real world would and face him with the reality of it. Or if not he can find something out of home that suits him better.
I think maybe a face to face with your wife first Copeland. It sounds like you are both on different pages on this one, which means I can't see your efforts working. I don't know the full situation so could be way off but perhaps it's time for a heart to heart with your wife, decide on the best approach forward and attack it together. You probably need to let her know how badly it's affecting you (she probs has an idea) the family and potentially your sons future.
It's hard for me to say what he right approach is for you because I don't know the full story and have never had that experience before. I can tell you from personal experience that the biggest motivator has been hitting rock bottom and having to work back from that. Your son seems to be being spared that.
Do you have any family or friends that you can chat to about this? Who may help add some perspective? Or even if your son is not listening to you, he might listen to them?
TradeDraft
Post-Human
Well I guess if you are that Sick and Tired of it and Your Talks are not Getting Thru then getting some Professinal Help might not be the Worse Idea.
I am not a Wokeraholic like Copeland and DThomas but I can still see the DisRespect that Copeland is Feeling
Quicky
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Mate I think that would be a really positive decision. I'd go there by youself first up and look at introducing the family later on. It may help you find some perspective and give you some tools to deal with the situation before you jump in the deep end with it.
Some good advice from Quicky, and I agree that you need to get your wife on board, and have her and yourself to have a serious sit down chat together. If he hears it from the both of you then I think he would take it on board more. If you think the family councilor option is the best thing, then you should seriously consider it. In the long run, it will be worth it. It may seem drastic, but if it is affecting you that much, then you really should do it.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
So Kicking him out of Home and say Fend for yourself?
WinmarToLockett
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heres some advice.
isntead of paying for a motel, pay for your kid to study.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-default.aspx
something like the above will land your kid a decent job with a good starting wage and a (huge) opportunity for serious professional development. It's an IT qualification so he can get into any industry you want. And tell him you can't complain about supporting him if you can see him building his qualifications.
and let him know you're sorry you cracked it at him- but it came out of concern for his wellbeing. he'll appreciate it.
good luck. teenagers are ****ed man, trust me. i was one once.
isntead of paying for a motel, pay for your kid to study.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-default.aspx
something like the above will land your kid a decent job with a good starting wage and a (huge) opportunity for serious professional development. It's an IT qualification so he can get into any industry you want. And tell him you can't complain about supporting him if you can see him building his qualifications.
and let him know you're sorry you cracked it at him- but it came out of concern for his wellbeing. he'll appreciate it.
good luck. teenagers are ****ed man, trust me. i was one once.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
That what I was getting at. Having 2 Different things coming from your Parents would not help your Son as he just Thinks that his Mum will always be there for him no matter what he does,
IF both of you talk to him the same way and give the same message he might actually take it more Seriously
Another thing to consider, your son could possibly have depression. Obviously, I don't know him, but staying on the computer 12 hours a day and not going out makes me think that something's not right. I know people that suffer from depression (and I have a very mild form of it), and they find it hard to go out and struggle to get out of bed, and spend large portions of the day on the computer. They also struggle to find work. Since seeking help their lives have turned around. I don't want to go around diagnosing him, but I think you should look for signs of it. Look at this website and check the lists:
http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=103.882
When you suffer from depression you feel like there's nobody out there to help you, and many don't seek help (particularly males) because of the stigma attached to it (I think the stigma is starting to go away though).
As I said, I don't want to go around diagnosing him, but it's something to consider.
http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=103.882
When you suffer from depression you feel like there's nobody out there to help you, and many don't seek help (particularly males) because of the stigma attached to it (I think the stigma is starting to go away though).
As I said, I don't want to go around diagnosing him, but it's something to consider.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
Great Post and That is something that it Could be and something that is could be Possibly. You came up with Great Ideas DThomas
Copeland
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I know a bit about depression because I have it, and he doesn't have it. Well who knows actually, I know I can disguise but its possibly just mild. He's actually quite a confident kid, great customer relations at my work and pretty easy going. He does go out about once a fortnight and party's, every week end when his gf was here, and he's always laughing and carring on with his mates who play these internet games on team speak. He says he is pretty stressed about me being on his case about getting a job, so atm I'm going to concentrate on my relationship with him and worry about work down the track.
As far as paying for courses, we will do anything. We where going to put him through College but after a 3 year VCE his marks where not high enough, one could argue he didn't apply himself enough and maybe spent too much time gaming.
My wife is on the same page as me(by the way I'm back home) its just she is very easy going and doesn't get on his back like I do, and its understandable she would be upset seeing us argue and me rampaging.
And by the way his monitor didn't break and the modem I smashed was mine, unfortunately we had another one.
As far as paying for courses, we will do anything. We where going to put him through College but after a 3 year VCE his marks where not high enough, one could argue he didn't apply himself enough and maybe spent too much time gaming.
My wife is on the same page as me(by the way I'm back home) its just she is very easy going and doesn't get on his back like I do, and its understandable she would be upset seeing us argue and me rampaging.
And by the way his monitor didn't break and the modem I smashed was mine, unfortunately we had another one.
ipswichpies
Premiership Player
That is a great to hear that things are not as bad as they seem,I have been following this thread and I am very pleased that all members of your family all talking to each other and that in itself is a step in the right direction.
Good luck with it mate and Kudos to you for speaking about it and I hope the other boys who have posted in this thread have assisted you with their replys.
Ps lets hope we get up tonight and all the best mate.
I hope everything works out for you. It's a tough situation, but you can work through it. If you need to vent or whatever, come to this thread. Good luck.
ipswichpies
Premiership Player
We might all need to come to this thread and vent tonight.Copeland at least you are home with family that is heading in the right direction mate.
vonn
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I hope everything goes okay for you Copeland! I do want to just say quickly I'm about the same age as your son, and it's damn hard finding a job nowadays. It's really scary and the support (not pressure) of my parents mean a lot to me, probably more than you'd think. It may be hard without qualifications but if he could even do something like a unpaid internship in the IT industry it would make his path clearer I'd imagine. Where you don't have qualifications, work experience can make up for it somewhat. I know kids who have gone to uni via going through Tafe, maybe he might want to think about that.
Anyway good luck.
Anyway good luck.
Really wish I knew what to say to you Copeland.
It's just so ****ing hard though.
No parent has it figured, if there was a solution that worked the issue would have been nipped on the bid a long while ago.
Lot of it is trial and error, you'd tried the gentle approach time and again no doubt, none of it worked. So then, as an intelligent person you subconsciously or otherwise, you tried a different approach and gave the shock and awe tactic a whirl.
Family therapy may work, some chance I guess.
To sit down with wife and son and draw up a contract that you discuss, set rules and not negotiables and a devise a working plan, can work. We did that with one of our boys it does work a bit.
DThomas had the excellent thought that possibly your boy was depressed. Certainly that is a very common and under recognised problem as is Internet addiction which he almost certainly has.
A trip to a good GP and secondary referrals as appropriate are worth considering.
Kids like this put an amazing strain on marriages, perhaps you and the wife need to try and get away to Bali for a week cement yourselves as a unit to help cope with this.
Kids will exploit any division between you.
As I said mate, no easy answer, and many exceptional people and parents have this all consuming ( if you let it ) torment.
Good luck Copeland, make sure you're kind to yourself through this.
It's just so ****ing hard though.
No parent has it figured, if there was a solution that worked the issue would have been nipped on the bid a long while ago.
Lot of it is trial and error, you'd tried the gentle approach time and again no doubt, none of it worked. So then, as an intelligent person you subconsciously or otherwise, you tried a different approach and gave the shock and awe tactic a whirl.
Family therapy may work, some chance I guess.
To sit down with wife and son and draw up a contract that you discuss, set rules and not negotiables and a devise a working plan, can work. We did that with one of our boys it does work a bit.
DThomas had the excellent thought that possibly your boy was depressed. Certainly that is a very common and under recognised problem as is Internet addiction which he almost certainly has.
A trip to a good GP and secondary referrals as appropriate are worth considering.
Kids like this put an amazing strain on marriages, perhaps you and the wife need to try and get away to Bali for a week cement yourselves as a unit to help cope with this.
Kids will exploit any division between you.
As I said mate, no easy answer, and many exceptional people and parents have this all consuming ( if you let it ) torment.
Good luck Copeland, make sure you're kind to yourself through this.
Copeland
ABZ
- Thread starter
- #46
We think it would be better to get him away from the pc and into Taffe. By the time he finished school last year it was too late to get into Taffe(he also thought he was going to College), and atm the courses aren't organized for next year. I've been suggesting to him to ask around at the computer repair places if he can work there for one day a week for free, he's only tried one place so I don't think he likes the idea. As far as factory work goes I've explained to him that's where I started, putting boxes on pallets in a Bottling Cellar and worked my way up to Foreman in the Wine Cellar. You just need a foot in the door, then be keen, show imitative and turn up on time. Been thinking about the depression side of it and maybe its worth checking out. I think he expected to have a job by now, because he got them easily before. His first interview was for a job in Coles and he got the job, the JB job was really just for interview experience but he got the job, then I got him a job in the servo and then his old Secondary School was going to give him a IT trainee-ship but couldn't get the funds and it fell through. So he may have thought it was going to be piss easy, but hasn't turned out as expected.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
losing the IT Job at his Highschool Would hurt as that sounds something he would love to have done.
Sounds like he has more luck then me in Interview's as I been to a Few and never got past that. He must Interview Well.
Can't he go to Tafe next year if he does not get a job before that?
Good-Luck Mate
Going purely off your posts, I'd say that the computer is a bit of a safety zone. It might be that he's done a number of applications and the knock backs are getting to him. I know for me, I went into my shell after a long period of failing to find work. I even had a bit of hulk smash moment after the frustration just got too much and I needed a release. It can be tough as you know you would be good, but for whatever reason no one seems to want to give you an opportunity. Hell I even had one guy tell me he wouldn't hire me because he knew I'd find something better in 6 months time and he'd be back to looking for someone. I tried everything. Even small courses, like bar courses, but got nothing. Being unemployed really saps at your self esteem and is tough.
I ended up setting my sights at the very bottom and finally got a job as a casual coles dawn filler, which I hated but was wrapped to finally have something. Things were on the up until I looked at my mates who were starting their first post uni's jobs on 40-60k a year with the potential to grow into much higher paid jobs while I was stocking shelves for probably sub 20k a year. Major self esteem blow and I was embarassed to talk about work and what I was doing. Looking back I now know I went into my shell a lot during this time as I felt I was well short when I compared myself to the people around me. So I wanted to quit, but for whatever reason stuck at it and eventually lucked out when a job popped up that I was interested in and I got it. I have to be honest here as it was more luck than my hard work that I came across it, but I had to win the job and I did (thank god). Now I was still well short of earning what my mates were, but I was enjoying it.
Having been through all that I know it can be frustrating not only to the job seeker, but also those around them. You know they want to help, but reality is that there is little that they can do to help you in the short term. Its all on you and for some reason/s you're being told no, not good enough. Its gotta be tough for parents as you no doubt want to help, but just be aware that your attempts to motivate might be adding to the stress and pressure. But don't throw in the towel. There are ways to help, but trashing the computer and charging board aren't the only way. Your son doesn't sound lazy to me. He seems defeated or fatigued with the constant banging against the wall.
The job market is a bit tough right now, but persistance is the key. I've started to look for a change and I'm finding it a bit tricky and thats with 10+ years in customers service and management (retail, event & administrative) experience. I've spoken to some people in HR and others that have recently changed jobs and they're all telling me that it needs dedicated effort that can take as long as 12 months to get that job. They're all telling me to make searching for a job, a job in itself and invest a huge amount of time. So take a long term view with this.
I dunno anything about your family dynamcis other than what you've posted, but I have a couple of things I think could help. Sit down with your son and go through job ads together with the aim of finding what his ideal job is. Then take a look at the qualifications and experience requirements are and look at how you would build up to it. Look at the lower end and entry level jobs that would give that experience and at courses that give the qualification. The main thing is that you're doing it together and looking for solutions together so that he sees you as on his side. You'd also be guiding him through a proactive approach rather than sitting there and waiting for it come to him. Set a 2-3 hour block each day where together you go through job ads and even work on his resume, cover letter and application. Get mum in on this too.
You could even contact the HR of the companies in these job ads and see if you can organise some unpaid work experience. If you could snag it, would look great on a resume and be a great thing to talk about in an interview. I know of a guy who works with an advertising company in Sydney from doing this.
I'd also recommend approaching job finder agencies that will help improve resumes, interview techniques (this is great by the way) and how to effectively search through job ads. Some of the better ones will have a coach/mentor that will help you identify the type of job that best matches your abilities and interests. They'll also help with confidence building and career building.
Good luck with this. Its tough, but remember persistance is the key. Treat looking for a job like a job. That means getting up and actively looking for work 9-5. Hope this helps.
I ended up setting my sights at the very bottom and finally got a job as a casual coles dawn filler, which I hated but was wrapped to finally have something. Things were on the up until I looked at my mates who were starting their first post uni's jobs on 40-60k a year with the potential to grow into much higher paid jobs while I was stocking shelves for probably sub 20k a year. Major self esteem blow and I was embarassed to talk about work and what I was doing. Looking back I now know I went into my shell a lot during this time as I felt I was well short when I compared myself to the people around me. So I wanted to quit, but for whatever reason stuck at it and eventually lucked out when a job popped up that I was interested in and I got it. I have to be honest here as it was more luck than my hard work that I came across it, but I had to win the job and I did (thank god). Now I was still well short of earning what my mates were, but I was enjoying it.
Having been through all that I know it can be frustrating not only to the job seeker, but also those around them. You know they want to help, but reality is that there is little that they can do to help you in the short term. Its all on you and for some reason/s you're being told no, not good enough. Its gotta be tough for parents as you no doubt want to help, but just be aware that your attempts to motivate might be adding to the stress and pressure. But don't throw in the towel. There are ways to help, but trashing the computer and charging board aren't the only way. Your son doesn't sound lazy to me. He seems defeated or fatigued with the constant banging against the wall.
The job market is a bit tough right now, but persistance is the key. I've started to look for a change and I'm finding it a bit tricky and thats with 10+ years in customers service and management (retail, event & administrative) experience. I've spoken to some people in HR and others that have recently changed jobs and they're all telling me that it needs dedicated effort that can take as long as 12 months to get that job. They're all telling me to make searching for a job, a job in itself and invest a huge amount of time. So take a long term view with this.
I dunno anything about your family dynamcis other than what you've posted, but I have a couple of things I think could help. Sit down with your son and go through job ads together with the aim of finding what his ideal job is. Then take a look at the qualifications and experience requirements are and look at how you would build up to it. Look at the lower end and entry level jobs that would give that experience and at courses that give the qualification. The main thing is that you're doing it together and looking for solutions together so that he sees you as on his side. You'd also be guiding him through a proactive approach rather than sitting there and waiting for it come to him. Set a 2-3 hour block each day where together you go through job ads and even work on his resume, cover letter and application. Get mum in on this too.
You could even contact the HR of the companies in these job ads and see if you can organise some unpaid work experience. If you could snag it, would look great on a resume and be a great thing to talk about in an interview. I know of a guy who works with an advertising company in Sydney from doing this.
I'd also recommend approaching job finder agencies that will help improve resumes, interview techniques (this is great by the way) and how to effectively search through job ads. Some of the better ones will have a coach/mentor that will help you identify the type of job that best matches your abilities and interests. They'll also help with confidence building and career building.
Good luck with this. Its tough, but remember persistance is the key. Treat looking for a job like a job. That means getting up and actively looking for work 9-5. Hope this helps.
13_Stitches
Senior List
I'm more of a reader at bigfooty than a poster, but i seen this and thought i could offer an opinion.
When i was his age and even a bit older i was much the same. I moved away from home at 18 to study and i never got a full time job until i was 25... Now, i spent two years doing a diploma of I.T. in which time i lost all interest i had in the subject. At home i would spend alot of time on the computer, not gaming as such but just surfing. I taught myself bass guitar, me and another friend would go to the nets three times a week for a hit of cricket, i would write, design, and just generally create. i spent my days doing this i enjoyed.
After doing my coarse i was on the dole and living comfortably with that money, because i wasn't out drinking or buying anything, i easily lived off what the government gave me, i was renting a brand new flat at the time that was better than anything my mates were living in. I knew inside my head that i had to get a job because that's what you're supposed to do, but i just didn't want to, i wasn't ready.
I was made to go to Job Search Training and other programs like that where we'd have to send out resumes and cover letters etc but i purposely put the wrong phone number on everything so they wouldn't call me back. I think this was mainly due to me not knowing what i wanted to do with my life. like i mentioned previously, i had lost all interest in working with I.T and actually underrated my skills which had put me off completely. I had no idea where I stood in the world. The Job search trainer asked me one day, "What do you want from your life?", I said "To be Happy" and i was. I was happy doing what i was doing, i'd see my mates and family work full time jobs, coming home ****ed, falling asleep at 8:30, never having time to do anything and then wrecking themselves on weekends. I wanted no part of that lifestyle.
Then when i was 23, things just changed, i got up one day applied for a casual job and started the next week. It was a job where i didn't have to work with people and didn't have a boss watch over me, i just went in did the job and left, it was perfect. I worked mornings and then had afternoons to do my usual stuff. So i did that for a while and got a taste for money, because i wasn't really spending i was saving which is something i hadnt done before. I'd check my bank account over and over just to see the how much i had and it go to the point where i wanted more and more. So i got another casual job on top of the one i had and watched my bank account rise, it become an obsession. At 25 i decided i needed a full time job with holiday pay and less hassle than working two casuals. So i went for a factory job, started, and have been working there since, happily.
I don't know if there's a point to this, but don't push your son at risk of tarnishing a relationship, he'll find his own way when he's ready, everyone does and everyone's different.
When i was his age and even a bit older i was much the same. I moved away from home at 18 to study and i never got a full time job until i was 25... Now, i spent two years doing a diploma of I.T. in which time i lost all interest i had in the subject. At home i would spend alot of time on the computer, not gaming as such but just surfing. I taught myself bass guitar, me and another friend would go to the nets three times a week for a hit of cricket, i would write, design, and just generally create. i spent my days doing this i enjoyed.
After doing my coarse i was on the dole and living comfortably with that money, because i wasn't out drinking or buying anything, i easily lived off what the government gave me, i was renting a brand new flat at the time that was better than anything my mates were living in. I knew inside my head that i had to get a job because that's what you're supposed to do, but i just didn't want to, i wasn't ready.
I was made to go to Job Search Training and other programs like that where we'd have to send out resumes and cover letters etc but i purposely put the wrong phone number on everything so they wouldn't call me back. I think this was mainly due to me not knowing what i wanted to do with my life. like i mentioned previously, i had lost all interest in working with I.T and actually underrated my skills which had put me off completely. I had no idea where I stood in the world. The Job search trainer asked me one day, "What do you want from your life?", I said "To be Happy" and i was. I was happy doing what i was doing, i'd see my mates and family work full time jobs, coming home ****ed, falling asleep at 8:30, never having time to do anything and then wrecking themselves on weekends. I wanted no part of that lifestyle.
Then when i was 23, things just changed, i got up one day applied for a casual job and started the next week. It was a job where i didn't have to work with people and didn't have a boss watch over me, i just went in did the job and left, it was perfect. I worked mornings and then had afternoons to do my usual stuff. So i did that for a while and got a taste for money, because i wasn't really spending i was saving which is something i hadnt done before. I'd check my bank account over and over just to see the how much i had and it go to the point where i wanted more and more. So i got another casual job on top of the one i had and watched my bank account rise, it become an obsession. At 25 i decided i needed a full time job with holiday pay and less hassle than working two casuals. So i went for a factory job, started, and have been working there since, happily.
I don't know if there's a point to this, but don't push your son at risk of tarnishing a relationship, he'll find his own way when he's ready, everyone does and everyone's different.
