Analysis G.F.C draft voting thread 2016

[Sttew]

Can't buy a vote... Pick 1 was a poisoned chalice

But had you not chosen the Chosen one, you would have been ridiculed.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Great work compiling and presenting everything, krisholio14. Going to be hard to pick who to vote for.

 

[Danger Money]

I ended up voting for Cat Attack by Two Planks. Can't go past a team with Wade and Hawkins as key forward targets and some of my all time favorite cats players like Riccardi, M Turner, Robert Scott and Brian Peake. Any of the other teams with undersized key defenders would get absolutely torched by this attack minded team. I think the team reminds me of what the cats were known for prior to the 3 flags, attack first and attack second.

 

[krisholio14]

I'm deciding between three. Biggy_Boy, year of the cat and Cursed_Cat.

Close to ruling one of them out, then it's a very though choice between the last two.

Sent from my HUAWEI Y520-U12 using Tapatalk

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I ended up voting for Cat Attack by Two Planks. Can't go past a team with Wade and Hawkins as key forward targets and some of my all time favorite cats players like Riccardi, M Turner, Robert Scott and Brian Peake. Any of the other teams with undersized key defenders would get absolutely torched by this attack minded team. I think the team reminds me of what the cats were known for prior to the 3 flags, attack first and attack second.

His is one I'm strongly considering. The combination of the two gun key forwards with the pace and class he has through the midfield is appealing to me. There are a few others I like too though so it's hard to decide.

 

[Cursed Cat]

It's a reflection on the rich history of the club that I reckon all of the teams had something to offer.

The teams I personally liked the best were the ones where players true positions were adhered to.

Some highlights:

Danger Money's roving combo of Goggin and Pianto

catempire's classy centermen Greeves and Selwood

NakedDeadGuy's spine, with players all selected to their true positions

krisholio14's champion backline

Catgirl's more modern champion backline

and the sheer watchability of ChookNorris' team ...

 

[pollyfarmer]

Vdubs team just from Year of the Cat.

Some of my favourite players from the 60's when I was a kid are in these teams:

Johnny Sharrock - absolute champion cruelly cut down by a knee injury (who can forget 1967 Prelim 3rd Quarter!).
Denis Marshall - Pure class / sublime skills - can play anywhere.
Polly Farmer - What can you say - The greatest!
Alastair Lord - Silky skills / ball magnet.

Coupled with the modern era:

Jimmy Bartel - Great Finals Player / Superb Mark.
David Wojinski - Probably the most exciting player ever and a real weapon.
Gary Ablett Junior - Unbeatable / Can do anything.
Paul Lynch - see Johnny Sharrock.

 

[Willo_]

GO TEAM CHOOK NORRIS!!!

 

[krisholio14]

My early fears from the draft appear to be correct. Those that selected more recent players are going to win this easily.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Settled on year of the cat. Very well rounded team

 

[Cursed Cat]

My early fears from the draft appear to be correct. Those that selected more recent players are going to win this easily.

if that were the case 10lana should be streets ahead; has the most of our 07-11 players in his team ..

 

[krisholio14]

if that were the case 10lana should be streets ahead; has the most of our 07-11 players in his team ..

I didn't mean the last 5-10 years. What I'm saying is, for example, Vdubs only took players he's seen (bar one) and posters of all ages will have seen a lot of his team live. I mean, I certainly considered voting for him at first as well. His team is quite well balanced, and there's some serious excitement machines in there. Thing for me was that he could put guys like Lynch and Nate in his team and get away with it, because even though for one reason or another they had short and ultimately unfulfilled careers, most of us have actually seen them play and know what they were capable of at their absolute best, even though we didn't get to see a lot of it.

Using my own team as a reference, Ike Woods may have a better record than both of them, but who is going to rate a bloke who played over 100 years ago who no one alive has seen play and there is no footage of, over a couple of fellas most of us have actually got to see run around either live or on video?

To use both our teams as a reference again, John Sharrock and Chris Mitchell were both before my time, so I never got so see them play live. But I have seen them on video. Sharrock achieved enough in the game in his shortened career to prove his class without necessarily needing to have seen one single highlight of his. But Chris Mitchell? I remember watching some of our late 60's games on Footy Flashbacks when I was a little fella, and thinking this bloke Mitchell must be one of our all time greats. Then I found out a bit later he didn't even play 50 games. Now I don't know what happened there, but it seemed like every Geelong replay I saw from the time he'd have a blinder. Like Lynch and Ablett, unless you'd actually seen him, and therefore know what he was capable of, his overall record doesn't suggest anything of note.

On the other hand, I have Norm Sharp, Geoff Mahon and Jack Walker who had their careers cut short by injury. They all played in premierships, were all state selections, and two won B&F's and one came 2nd. Mahon never played again after his B&F, and Walker played only 5 more games after his 2nd placing. I would say the only player of the three that anyone on this board would have seen in any capacity is Norm Sharp. I would also say if I put a poll up now saying 'which three guys would you take - Walker, Mahon and Sharp or Mitchell, Lynch and N.Ablett' the latter would s**t it in, despite the former having the better records any way you slice and dice it.

That's why when I've played these 'all-time' drafting games in the past, there is usually an era restriction on selection. This is the first one i've played where there hasn't been one, and now I can see why lol.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I didn't mean the last 5-10 years. What I'm saying is, for example, Vdubs only took players he's seen (bar one) and posters of all ages will have seen a lot of his team live. I mean, I certainly considered voting for him at first as well. His team is quite well balanced, and there's certainly some serious excitement machines in there. Thing for me was that he could put guys like Lynch and Nate in his team and get away with it, because even though for one reason or another they had short and ultimately unfulfilled careers, most of us have actually seen them play and know what they were capable of at their absolute best, even though we didn't get to see a lot of it.

Using my own team as a reference, Ike Woods may have a better record than both of them, but who is going to rate a bloke who played over 100 years ago who no one alive has seen play and there is no footage of, over a couple of fellas most of us have actually got to see run around either live or on video?

To use both our teams as a reference again, John Sharrock and Chris Mitchell were both before my time, so I never got so see them play live. But I have seen them on video. Sharrock achieved enough in the game in his shortened career to prove his class without necessarily needing to have seen one single highlight of his. But Chris Mitchell? I remember watching some of our late 60's games on Footy Flashbacks when I was a little fella, and thinking this bloke Mitchell must be one of our all time greats. Then I found out a bit later he didn't even play 50 games. Now I don't know what happened there, but it seemed like every Geelong replay I saw from the time he'd have a blinder. Like Lynch and Ablett, unless you'd actually seen him, and therefore know what he was capable of, his overall record doesn't suggest anything of note.

On the other hand, I have Norm Sharp, Geoff Mahon and Jack Walker who had their careers cut short by injury. They all played in premierships, were all state selections, and two won B&F's and one came 2nd. Mahon never played again after his B&F, and Walker played only 5 more games after his 2nd placing. I would say the only player of the three that anyone on this board would have seen in any capacity is Norm Sharp. I would also say if I put a poll up now saying 'which three guys would you take - Walker, Mahon and Sharp or Mitchell, Lynch and N.Ablett' the latter would s**t it in, despite the former having the better records any way you slice and dice it.

That's why when I've played these 'all-time' drafting games in the past, there is usually an era restriction on selection. This is the first one i've played where there hasn't been one, and now I can see why lol.

ah I see where you're coming from, but I look at it a different way; players like Mensch, Kingsley, Taylor Hunt, Trent West, even Nathan Ablett; I saw all too much of their mediocrity and inconsistency to romanticise them unduly - a guy like, let's say Jack Carney from my side? I have some strong anecdotal evidence that says he was a zippy little goer during his relatively brief career, and there's nothing that can counter that - I feel that we tend to record and romanticise the past when it comes to VFL/AFL; you don't hear much about Norm Sharp or Les Smith's bad games, whereas I remember the poor games from the aforementioned and mark them down accordingly.

We'll see how it plays out; you're most likely going to be proven right, but then again, who knows exactly why posters vote the way they do; might have to start an additional thread for voters to justify their voting choices

fwiw I think yours and my respective teams had quite a few similarities, I was pretty happy with the choices I nabbed and was thankful I never had to 'resort' to taking players I'd seen but didn't rate particularly highly - I could always pluck an old name who had a good record and there's little anyone can do to gainsay their selections - however, whether or not posters have actually heard of some of these older players is another matter. Hopefully those who hadn't heard of them now have some idea of what they contributed to the club and perhaps it will spark some interest here and there from posters who'd previously only really considered the contributions of the players they'd seen in their lifetimes...

oh, and I voted for your team mate

 

[Cursed Cat]

... furthermore, I always saw this comp as an opportunity to celebrate the players who have made the club what it is and wasn't particularly interested in any popularity contest side of things; I don't want to put words into someone else's mouth but I reckon current comp leader Vdubs would probably say something similar (well he alluded to as much in the draft picks thread, anyway..). I am glad I picked up a vote of course, but I probably got more value from learning about someone like Clyde Helmer from Biggy_Boy, or in doing my own research into who was the 'better' full back out of Bruce Morrison and Roy West (jury's out on that one, maybe slight nod to Morrison; I had a chance to take either) or the superior CHB out of Peter Walker and John Hyde ..

 

[krisholio14]

... furthermore, I always saw this comp as an opportunity to celebrate the players who have made the club what it is and wasn't particularly interested in any popularity contest side of things; I don't want to put words into someone else's mouth but I reckon current comp leader Vdubs would probably say something similar (well he alluded to as much in the draft picks thread, anyway..). I am glad I picked up a vote of course, but I probably got more value from learning about someone like Clyde Helmer from Biggy_Boy, or in doing my own research into who was the 'better' full back out of Bruce Morrison and Roy West (jury's out on that one, maybe slight nod to Morrison; I had a chance to take either) or the superior CHB out of Peter Walker and John Hyde ..

Thanks for the vote, I had another one but someone changed it

I really want to vote for your team, but the presence of Nakia and Lang prevents me from doing so. Had you taken, say, Newling and Heinz from my 'missed the cut' team, you would have absolutely got my vote. Love your back line, and apart from Lang (and only because he hasn't proven anything), that forward line is the most balanced of the lot.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Thanks for the vote, I had another one but someone changed it

I really wanted to vote for your team, but the presence of Nakia and Lang prevents me from doing so. Had you taken, say, Newling and Heinz from my 'missed the cut' team, you would have absolutely got my vote. Love your back line, and apart from Lang (and only because he hasn't proven anything), that forward line is the most balanced of the lot.

oi, I thought we were waxing votes!!


Cockatoo and Lang were cheeky picks for sure; my justification was that a) I wanted a tad more modern flavour after taking the bulk of my team from the 30's and 50's, and b) I didn't want to settle for any players that I just didn't personally rate ... so I projected as to who I suspect will be the best of the current youngsters (I would've taken Thurlow, btw, but he went after Cockatoo) - I'll bump the thread in 10 years time when they're confirmed champs

I like my forward line too, as you say, apart from Lang for the reasons you stated.

I was happy just to be able to re-produce the various raves about Jack Collins, putting together that little bio was probably my favourite part of the whole comp process ..

 

[Cursed Cat]

I was happy just to be able to re-produce the various raves about Jack Collins, putting together that little bio was probably my favourite part of the whole comp process ..

... speaking of which, don't forget to finish off the linkage back to our write-ups, I see you've stalled right on my team; back to work!

 

[krisholio14]

... speaking of which, don't forget to finish off the linkage back to our write-ups, I see you've stalled right on my team; back to work!

I'll get some more done tonight.

For what it's worth, I did my own assessments of the teams whose selectors got their info in to me pretty much straight away.

Here's what I said about Vdubs team

From the outset, Vdubs took a very specific drafting philosophy. Firstly, that he was only going to take players he'd seen. With 50 plus years of viewing experience, he had plenty to draw on. Secondly, and more pointedly, he was looking for what he called 'weapons'. His own description will go further into that later. If nothing else, Vdub's team would play one of the most exciting brands of footy of any selected.

The Love Cats defensive weapons revolve around toughness and courage. In Ainsworth, Colbert and Hickmott he has players who regularly put their bodies on the line. Vinar and Mitchell provide the aggression, and in 'The Swede's' case, one of the longest kicks in the history of the comp. Dual B&F winner Mark Bos is the cream down back, a consistent, tough defender who was equally good in the air or on the deck. Wojcinski can also play in the back half to provide line breaking speed.

The midfield has an intriguing mixture of toughness and brilliance. Ablett Jnr won pretty much everything there is to win at the club, and it is hard to belive he has become an even better player at the Suns. There is also game breaking pace and run with Wojcinski, the versatility, athleticism and stamina of Blitz, and the thumping ruck work of Rod Blake. Add to that the strength of K.Matthews and the consistent accumulation of Pickering, and it's a well rounded midfield with plenty of class.

Up forward, there are a lot of 'what ifs?'. What if the brilliant Sharrock hadn't suffered a career ending knee injury? What if Lynch's hammys could have held up? What if Nate Ablett had his heart in the game? What if Ben Graham had played as a KPF his entire career? What if Breuer had finished his career with us? Will Murdoch fulfill his potential? Despite the questions, all players bar Murdoch have played match winning footy for us. Sharrock in particular is forgotten by many despite being all class during his career, singlehandedly getting the team over the line on occasions. Lynch and Ablett both had days to remember in the hoops, while Breuer was a key ingredient in sides that made consecutive Grand Finals. Ben Graham made his name down back initially, but went forward more frequently later in his career and had some big outings. That's without mentioning his kicking, which along with Vinar rank as among the longest in the history of the club and the game. Murdoch has time on his side, but has shown he knows how to kick a spectacular goal. Taking each of these players at their very best though, it's hard to argue this forward line would cause more than a few headaches. K.Matthews, Ablett Jnr and Blake could also play as quality forwards.

Arguably the most interesting pick of the draft - Dr Alex McGregor - was a very talented player who injured a knee early in his career and was lost to league footy. He returned after the war as club doctor, and was also the doc who brought Vdubs himself into the world

Strengths - X-factor, kicking, speed, overall balance

Weaknesses - Unfulfilled potential, proven goal kickers with longevity

And here's what I said about yours.....


Cursed Cat has given us his own in depth summation of his team, so I will keep this write up brief.

CC didn't end up going back before the First War for any of his players, and that may work in his favour, with all but two of his players having premiership experience. He even has at least one player from each of the clubs 9 flags.

His defense is full of dashers, but perhaps more importantly, players known for their ability to combine as teammates. There is a good spread of pace, skill and strength in his back half, and aside from all of those selected in defense being premiership players, they all represented Victoria. That's a mark of individual quality, but if we were to ever to be able to watch this backline actually play a match, the whole would be better than the sum of its parts, and that's what a great defense is all about.

The midfield is the weakest link in this side by a fair margin, given the quality in defense and attack. Tommy Quinn is a club Team of the Century player renown for stepping up in finals, and a clear standout on the ball for the Schrod's. The others bar our current players had short careers with the club, either though injury or moving elsewhere. However, those players did play some quality football for us, and all were vital contributors to flag winning teams. Mitch Duncan has proven himself to be a fine player, with greater personal accolades to come, and Nakia Cockatoo has shown flashes of brilliance, but has a long way to go before he's a regular in the current 22. For this sort of exercise, picking up someone yet to make his way in the game is a bold move.

The attack looks extremely potent, with Fred Flanagan and Jack Collins pulling down the marks, S.Johnson and Moloney snapping them from everywhere, and Baker feeding off the crumbs. Darcy Lang has shown enough to suggest he has a long term future at the club, and has displayed a nose for the goals. Again, a bold move taking a player on potential rather that results, but it may be that CC looks back on this team in the years to come and has the last laugh. With the talent around the youngster in this forward line, why not roll the dice?


Strengths - KPP's, forwards and defenders that compliment each other, premiership experience, goal kicking rucks

Weaknesses - Longevity, flexibility outside of ruck position.

 

[Galaxy]

Best poster on the board gets my vote, BB

 

[Cursed Cat]

I'll get some more done tonight.

For what it's worth, I did my own assessments of the teams whose selectors got their info in to me pretty much straight away.

Here's what I said about Vdubs team

From the outset, Vdubs took a very specific drafting philosophy. Firstly, that he was only going to take players he'd seen. With 50 plus years of viewing experience, he had plenty to draw on. Secondly, and more pointedly, he was looking for what he called 'weapons'. His own description will go further into that later. If nothing else, Vdub's team would play one of the most exciting brands of footy of any selected.

The Love Cats defensive weapons revolve around toughness and courage. In Ainsworth, Colbert and Hickmott he has players who regularly put their bodies on the line. Vinar and Mitchell provide the agression, and in 'The Swede's' case, one of the longest kicks in the history of the comp. Dual B&F winner Mark Bos is the cream down back, a consistent, tough defender who was equally good in the air or on the deck. Wojcinski can also play in the back half to provide line breaking speed.

The midfield has an intriguing mixture of toughness and brilliance. Ablett Jnr won pretty much everything there is to win at the club, and it is hard to belive he has become an even better player at the Suns. There is also game breaking pace and run with Wojcinski, the versatility, athleticism and stamina of Blitz, and the thumping ruck work of Rod Blake. Add to that the strength of K.Matthews and the consistent accumulation of Pickering, and it's a well rounded midfield with plenty of class.

Up forward, there are a lot of 'what ifs?'. What if the brilliant Sharrock hadn't suffered a career ending knee injury? What if Lynch's hammys could have held up? What if Nate Ablett had his heart in the game? What if Ben Graham had played as a KPF his entire career? What if Bruer had finished his career with us? Will Murdoch fulfill his potential? Despite the questions, all players bar Murdoch have played matchwinning footy for us. Sharrock in particular is forgotten by many despite being all class during his career, singlehandedly getting the team over the line on occasions. Lynch and Ablett both had days to remember in the hoops, while Bruer was a key ingredient in sides that made consecutive Grand Finals. Ben Graham made his name down back initially, but went forward more frequently later in his career and had some big outings. That's without mentioning his kicking, which along with Vinar rank as among the longest in the history of the club and the game. Murdoch has time on his side, but has shown he knows how to kick a spectacular goal. Taking each of these players at their very best though, it's hard to argue this forward line would cause more than a few headaches. K.Matthews, Ablett Jnr and Blake could also play as quality forwards.

Arguably the most interesting pick of the draft - Dr Alex McGregor - was a very talented player who injured a knee early in his career and was lost to league footy. He returned after the war as club doctor, and was also the doc who brought Vdubs himself into the world

Strengths - X-factor, kicking, speed, overall balance

Weaknesses - Unfulfilled potential, proven goal kickers with longevity

And here's what I said about yours.....


Cursed Cat has given us his own in depth summation of his team, so I will keep this write up brief.

CC didn't end up going back before the First War for any of his players, and that may work in his favour, with all but two of his players having premiership experience. He even has at least one player from each of the clubs 9 flags.

His defense is full of dashers, but perhaps more importantly, players known for their ability to combine as teammates. There is a good spread of pace, skill and strength in his back half, and aside from all of those selected in defense being premiership players, they all represented Victoria. That's a mark of individual quality, but if we were to ever to be able to watch this backline actually play a match, the whole would be better than the sum of its parts, and that's what a great defense is all about.

The midfield is the weakest link in this side by a fair margin, given the quality in defense and attack. Tommy Quinn is a club Team of the Century player renown for stepping up in finals, and a clear standout on the ball for the Schrod's. The others bar our current players had short careers with the club, either though injury or moving elsewhere. However, those players did play some quality football for us, and all were vital contributors to flag winning teams. Mitch Duncan has proven himself to be a fine player, with greater personal accolades to come, and Nakia Cockatoo has shown flashes of brilliance, but has a long way to go before he's a regular in the current 22. For this sort of exercise, picking up someone yet to make his way in the game is a bold move.

The attack looks extremely potent, with Fred Flanagan and Jack Collins pulling down the marks, S.Johnson and Moloney snapping them from everywhere, and Baker feeding off the crumbs. Darcy Lang has shown enough to suggest he has a long term future at the club, and has displayed a nose for the goals. Again, a bold move taking a player on potential rather that results, but it may be that CC looks back on this team in the years to come and has the last laugh. With the talent around the youngster in this forward line, why not roll the dice?


Strengths - KPP's, forwards and defenders that compliment each other, premiership experience, goal kicking rucks

Weaknesses - Longevity, flexibility outside of ruck position.

absolutely bang-on as far as my team is concerned, can't argue with your assessment whatsoever, very fair

 

[Lana]

if that were the case 10lana should be streets ahead; has the most of our 07-11 players in his team ..

Getting no love so far .

 

[Cursed Cat]

Getting no love so far .

early days mate.

i'm considering trying to convince my gf to sign up to BF so I can double my tally (to 2) ... could wind up being a controversy to rival POTYgate

 

[krisholio14]

ah I see where you're coming from, but I look at it a different way; players like Mensch, Kingsley, Taylor Hunt, Trent West, even Nathan Ablett; I saw all too much of their mediocrity and inconsistency to romanticise them unduly - a guy like, let's say Jack Carney from my side? I have some strong anecdotal evidence that says he was a zippy little goer during his relatively brief career, and there's nothing that can counter that - I feel that we tend to record and romanticise the past when it comes to VFL/AFL; you don't hear much about Norm Sharp or Les Smith's bad games, whereas I remember the poor games from the aforementioned and mark them down accordingly.

We'll see how it plays out; you're most likely going to be proven right, but then again, who knows exactly why posters vote the way they do; might have to start an additional thread for voters to justify their voting choices

fwiw I think yours and my respective teams had quite a few similarities, I was pretty happy with the choices I nabbed and was thankful I never had to 'resort' to taking players I'd seen but didn't rate particularly highly - I could always pluck an old name who had a good record and there's little anyone can do to gainsay their selections - however, whether or not posters have actually heard of some of these older players is another matter. Hopefully those who hadn't heard of them now have some idea of what they contributed to the club and perhaps it will spark some interest here and there from posters who'd previously only really considered the contributions of the players they'd seen in their lifetimes...

oh, and I voted for your team mate

My experience with looking at anecdotal or historical evidence on players, and it happened here with a few of the players I either selected or hoped to select, is that players were far more likely to cop a roasting in print then than they have been in our time.

If a player had a stinker or made a big error, he'd get well and truly called out for it. I know players still get ripped on these days, but consider the saturation coverage and over analysis of the game today compared to what it used to be, and I just reckon if a player got a pasting then, it was usually spot on. As opposed to today, where there's always some stat or camera angle to prove whatever negative point you want to make on a player regardless if it's right or not.

So as far as the examples you've given go...Jack Carney was a very good player for us. My only knock on him is that he went to Carlton and became an even better player. He was a beloved and revered figure for his playing style and off field contributions for many years at Carlton.

And Menschy? He was a favorite of mine from day one. Even have a no 31 guernsey I got him it sign after a game in 94. You shoulda seen his face by the way, at first he was flabbergasted, then happy as Larry some young bloke was wearing his # and wanted his auto. Problem for him is that he wasn't Snr, or Stoneham, or even Billy. What he was was a good ordinary footballer who gave his all and got the most out of his limited ability at the top level. So he wasn't as skilled or flashy as some of our other big fellas, he still had some more than handy performances in big games for us. He did also play nearly 160 games in some pretty good teams at more than a goal a game, you can't do that if you're a mug. Like with a few other blokes that have become escapegoats over the years, I think some supporters expected him to be or become something he wasn't and was never going to be.

 

[Cursed Cat]

My experience with looking at anecdotal or historical evidence on players, and it happened here with a few of the players I either selected or hoped to select, is that players were far more likely to cop a roasting in print then than they have been in our time.

If a player had a stinker or made a big error, he'd get well and truly called out for it. I know players still get ripped on these days, but consider the saturation coverage and over analysis of the game today compared to what it used to be, and I just reckon if a player got a pasting then, it was usually spot on. As opposed to today, where there's always some stat or camera angle to prove whatever negative point you want to make on a player regardless if it's right or not.

So as far as the examples you've given go...Jack Carney was a very good player for us. My only knock on him is that he went to Carlton and became an even better player. He was a beloved and revered figure for his playing style and off field contributions for many years at Carlton.

And Menschy? He was a favorite of mine from day one. Even have a no 31 guernsey I got him it sign after a game in 94. You shoulda seen his face by the way, at first he was flabbergasted, then happy as Larry some young bloke was wearing his # and wanted his auto. Problem for him is that he wasn't Snr, or Stoneham, or even Billy. What he was was a good ordinary footballer who gave his all and got the most out of his limited ability at the top level. So he wasn't as skilled or flashy as some of our other big fellas, he still had some more than handy performances in big games for us. He did also play nearly 160 games in some pretty good teams at more than a goal a game, you can't do that if you're a mug. Like with a few other blokes that have become escapegoats over the years, I think some supporters expected him to be or become something he wasn't and was never going to be.

Carney was the only player I selected who arguably contributed more at another club than he did at Geelong; having said that, it sounds as though he was pretty instrumental in helping deliver us the '31 flag, and only played 5 more games for Carlton than he did with the Cats (plus another flag at the Blues, too) ... I just liked his story too much to resist picking him, because I was pretty strict on players performing for Geelong.

Mensch - well, he was ok ... he was no mug, but he was far from a superstar. To me he was kind of emblematic of the early 90's teams; some absolute top-end cream, but not enough class overall to salute when it counted. You say he was no Ablett - that's no issue, but he was no Stoneham or Brownless either as you admit; and they weren't even in the elite bracket when it came to the top echelon of players and to clinching finals ... so, he was certainly serviceable, but in this comp I always hoped to select better than serviceable - could definitely think of an example or two in my team where that may not have played out, but I aimed higher than David Mensch where possible ... like you say, 160 games is nothing to be sneezed at, and I'm not big on ragging on players in general. Unless they're Brent Grgic.

Christ I did not realise Grgic was actually back at the club in a coaching capacity until I just googled his name just then - apparently had considerable success as coach for Bell Post Hill and was wooed to Geelong's VFL ranks. You could knock me down with a feather right now; Grgic's time at Geelong was massively disappointing; was ok at Melbourne, but I would comfortably rate him as the softest player I have seen at Geelong. I was convinced he was on the cough medicine while he was wearing the hoops ... anyway, I digress...

 

[Lana]

i'm considering trying to convince my gf to sign up to BF so I can double my tally (to 2) ... could wind up being a controversy to rival POTYgate

Better not, we wouldn't want to have even more casualties