Review Good vs Carlton

[SugarShane]

Barry Stanfield?

He was unstoppable in AFL 98 on PC.

 

[feenix67]

A staged change implies a strategy with an end goal to get us to the mix we had today, but it was far from planned.

Every week they had to reduce their CBA but they did it by an amount they thought they could get away with and still win, when that failed they reduced some more until we finally got to todays midfield and we saw how effective it was.

They could have gone with this midfield round 1 at worst rd 2, but they didn’t think it was their best midfield mix.

And what confirms this is the continual rhetoric that the midfield mix was right.

 

[Scorpus]

A staged change implies a strategy with an end goal to get us to the mix we had today, but it was far from planned.

Every week they had to reduce their CBA but they did it by an amount they thought they could get away with and still win, when that failed they reduced some more until we finally got to todays midfield and we saw how effective it was.

They could have gone with this midfield round 1 at worst rd 2, but they didn’t think it was their best midfield mix.

A strategy to slowly change the midfield mix that results in 4 losses is not a good strategy at all

 

[NSolis]

A staged change implies a strategy with an end goal to get us to the mix we had today, but it was far from planned.

Every week they had to reduce their CBA but they did it by an amount they thought they could get away with and still win, when that failed they reduced some more until we finally got to todays midfield and we saw how effective it was.

They could have gone with this midfield round 1 at worst rd 2, but they didn’t think it was their best midfield mix.

A way more obvious and parsimonious explanation is just that they saw the need to move to a mix with more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele but wanted to do it gradually over time rather than all at once. This aligns perfectly well with the observed tendencies of the coaching group (pretty conservative, not prone to massive changes in approach overnight) and all the things they have said and done since the criticism hit the club after the round 2 loss.

I'm not even sure I understand what you think it is the club was doing. They thought Crouch/Dawson/Laird was the best mix, but wanted to move to another mix for... reasons. But only at the speed they could 'get away with' without losing? And this is while they went from 0-2 to 0-4? Why would they even bother if they didn't see a need for change? Why wouldn't they just rebound back to the preferred setup when introducing Soligo didn't result in wins? Doesn't it just make way more sense that they didn't want to suddenly change the entire makeup of the midfield at once and also they had nowhere else to put their experienced midfielders so they took a staged approach?

edit: Also Nicks said in the presser tonight that they were 'slowly' introducing new faces into the midfield mix or something along those lines. Though I hadn't seen that when I wrote the post obviously.

 

[jackster83]

Our fans at away games seem noisier and more fired up than those at our home games.

Half the people at AO seem like they are only there to take photos for their social media pages.

 

[NSolis]

A strategy to slowly change the midfield mix that results in 4 losses is not a good strategy at all

Not when compared to just having a better midfield mix in the first place, no. I'm not sure if a drastic response after the Geelong game would have been better or not, but it's fair to say this is not a coaching group that makes drastic responses pretty much ever, so I doubt that was ever on the cards. Everything is pretty methodical.

 

[windyhill]

Beat carlton?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Not when compared to just having a better midfield mix in the first place, no. I'm not sure if a drastic response after the Geelong game would have been better or not, but it's fair to say this is not a coaching group that makes drastic responses pretty much ever, so I doubt that was ever on the cards. Everything is pretty methodical.

You think they made a decision a month ago that this was their preferred midfield, but didn't play it that way because they were only prepared to conduct a slow transition?

 

[George Kramer]

A way more obvious and parsimonious explanation is just that they saw the need to move to a mix with more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele but wanted to do it gradually over time rather than all at once. This aligns perfectly well with the observed tendencies of the coaching group (pretty conservative, not prone to massive changes in approach overnight) and all the things they have said and done since the criticism hit the club after the round 2 loss.

I'm not even sure I understand what you think it is the club was doing. They thought Crouch/Dawson/Laird was the best mix, but wanted to move to another mix for... reasons. But only at the speed they could 'get away with' without losing? And this is while they went from 0-2 to 0-4? Why would they even bother if they didn't see a need for change? Why wouldn't they just rebound back to the preferred setup when introducing Soligo didn't result in wins? Doesn't it just make way more sense that they didn't want to suddenly change the entire makeup of the midfield at once and also they had nowhere else to put their experienced midfielders so they took a staged approach?

edit: Also Nicks said in the presser tonight that they were 'slowly' introducing new faces into the midfield mix or something along those lines. Though I hadn't seen that when I wrote the post obviously.

You don’t move to a gradual change if you think the end result will help you win games, they aren’t going to sacrifice games.

My point is they wanted to run with their preferred set up but only made subtle changes each week thinking that their main core with some minor tweaking would be enough. Each week it wasn’t they had to make more changes until they got to a winning formula.

It’s absurd to think slowly introducing players to the midfield whilst losing was part of some master plan. Soligo and Rankine could easily have played the same role they did today in round 1,2,3 and 4.

But they’ve clearly fooled some devotees.

Fair dinkum what absolute garbage.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Why did we sub Gillan instead McHenry?

 

[George Kramer]

You think they made a decision a month ago that this was their preferred midfield, but didn't play it that they way only prepared to conduct a slow transition?

Can you seriously believe this is even a discussion?

 

[George Kramer]

Not when compared to just having a better midfield mix in the first place, no. I'm not sure if a drastic response after the Geelong game would have been better or not, but it's fair to say this is not a coaching group that makes drastic responses pretty much ever, so I doubt that was ever on the cards. Everything is pretty methodical.

Methodically bad

 

[Greenfinger]

Berry was outstanding tonight. In our best players from 1 quarter of game time is amazing

 

[ams4crows]

Kane Cornes looking absolutely shattered when Berry kicks the winning goal

 

[NSolis]

You don’t move to a gradual change if you think the end result will help you win games, they aren’t going to sacrifice games.

My point is they wanted to run with their preferred set up but only made subtle changes each week thinking that their main core with some minor tweaking would be enough. Each week it wasn’t they had to make more changes until they got to a winning formula.

It’s absurd to think slowly introducing players to the midfield whilst losing was part of some master plan. Soligo and Rankine could easily have played the same role they did today in round 1,2,3 and 4.

But they’ve clearly fooled some devotees.

Fair dinkum what absolute garbage.

'Could' doesn't really have anything to do with it. My assumption given that the coaching staff are pretty conservative and change things pretty slowly is that they would approach changing the midfield by making gradual adjustments over a period of time. They absolutely could have responded to the Geelong loss by say dropping Laird and putting Rankine and Soligo in the middle but obviously this coaching group would never do that any more than they would respond to a horrible performance by making 6 unforced changes. They've never shown the slightest inclination to making sudden and drastic changes before, but it's clear that they have gradually decreased the midfield time of Crouch/Laird/Dawson over the last few weeks, beginning with the game where they were widely criticised for using that midfield mix.

Again, you keep trying to make this about being a 'devotee' and defending Nicks since apparently that's the only lens you can view anything through, but it's not about that. If it helps I'll say it again - this midfield mix is better and they should have started the season with it. I think it's harder to say what the correct response after the Geelong game would have been but it was obvious something had to change with the midfield. And still does of course - probably that has to be dropping Laird eventually, especially if Berry is going to be back in.

I just found it interesting that the amount of CBAs attended by the main three mids who took almost all of them in round 2 has decreased by a pretty consistent amount each week for three consecutive weeks and is now around 50%. Almost like that's the response they decided on.

 

[Sanders]

Where you been for the first month?

He literally disappeared after preseason, and didn’t return until the win; not to celebrate but to troll Clam

And his excuse, disgusting beyond words

 

[Sanders]

To be fair the last 5 years have probably made a lot of supporters fair weather. Who really cares?

It all depends on how they carry themselves

Some people will be worn down; and a good win enthuses them - we can all understand that

If you’re up and about, and then disappear at the first sign of trouble, only to return 2 minutes after the first win to troll others… problematic

And I don’t think you’d disagree

 

[Sanders]

Fair dinkum. I had to laugh when the commentators claimed it was an epic battle but you'd have to give to edge to Weitering, with Walker on four goals in the 3rd quarter plus a couple given away!

I'd hate to see what a bad game for Weitering looks like!

My favourite ode to kirky was when the commentators declared authoritatively “weitering came with the fist”

 

[NSolis]

You think they made a decision a month ago that this was their preferred midfield, but didn't play it that way because they were only prepared to conduct a slow transition?

Not that this was their preferred midfield - not really sure it is at this point. More that they wanted to move away from the exclusive Crouch/Laird/Dawson setup and find other roles for those players while introducing more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele, but that they would make it a gradual transition to avoid being too 'destabilising', or similar.

I expect we'll see more of it as well, though Crouch being suspended will change things.

 

[Moonwatcher]

He was unstoppable in AFL 98 on PC.

Could you show your opponent the ball on AFL 98?

 

[Sanders]

To the Carlton supporter who sat in front of me and told me I was “in for a treat to watch the 2024 premiership side tonight”, gagf!

He might still be right

Play that game 20 times, and Carlton win 19

 

[cmndstab]

He was unstoppable in AFL 98 on PC.

Kym Koster was the best player by a mile in that game. For some reason he was 50% faster than everyone else

 

[Brett Cummings]

imo soilgo will be in the top handful of mids in the comp.

 

[hippyhippy]

The game plan was noticeably different... They didn't just kick the ball wide every single time to a contest... They tried to pass shorter and play on much faster which is more like last year. Whoever decided they should play slow contested football along the wings should be fired

 

[NSolis]

He might still be right

Play that game 20 times, and Carlton win 19

Yeah. It was a good Adelaide performance but most of the good fortune flowed one way.